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Old 03-10-2011, 04:45 AM   #1
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Default Shannahan and the draft?

Hello Bronco fans i come in peace. As you can see I'm a die hard redskin fan and i have some questions about Shannahan w/ regard to the draft. I figured this would be the best place to do some research.

What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft? Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts? and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?

My opinion on the upcoming draft is that PP7, Prince, AJ Green and Marcel Dareus are the safest picks in the entire class. With PP7 being far and away the best prospect in the class. I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:00 AM   #2
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my perception is that Shanny was reluctant to pay rookies from the early rounds huge salaries and focused more on trading down (i.e., quantity of picks over quality of picks) and looking for sleepers and bargains in the later rounds. the Broncos didn't have many high first round picks while Shanny was here and Shanny was always more partial to bringing in experienced free agents to "fill holes" rather than build through the draft anyway, so his drafting strategy fit that philosophy.

i think the Broncos drafts overall during the Shanny years are not too well regarded. they weren't necessarily horrific, they just didn't produce as many impact players as we would have liked. Shanny was always trying to "reload" rather than "rebuild", so the draft didn't seem to be as crucial to the Broncos on field success as it is elsewhere.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:28 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt View Post
my perception is that Shanny was reluctant to pay rookies from the early rounds huge salaries and focused more on trading down (i.e., quantity of picks over quality of picks) and looking for sleepers and bargains in the later rounds. the Broncos didn't have many high first round picks while Shanny was here and Shanny was always more partial to bringing in experienced free agents to "fill holes" rather than build through the draft anyway, so his drafting strategy fit that philosophy.
Shanahan almost never traded down in the first round. In fact, I can only remember him doing it once. There were times that he certainly traded up... with questionable results. The reason we never had very many high 1st round picks under Shanahan is that we were consistent winners.

Shanahan is not the best D talent evaluator in the world when it comes to the draft, it would help if you have someone good on staff to help with that.

Last edited by bowtown; 03-10-2011 at 06:32 AM..
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:35 AM   #4
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Very interesting spot for the Redskins, they will have the chance to take a young talnted QB if they want. I would love to be a fly on the wall listening to Shanahan talk to Snyder about this.

Surprisingly, the Redskins ended up 18th in total offense, and 31st in defense (one ahead of the Broncos). So, there are obvious holes everywhere. It's almost insane how quickly the wheels came off the Redskins defense once Shanahan rollled into town.

Shanahan usually knows hoiw to find real mid round values (Dumervil and Marshall were fourth rounders), so I would look at some of those picks with real interest.
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Old 03-10-2011, 06:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by redskin troll View Post
What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft?
A mixed bag throughout his long tenure in Denver. Lots of big hits including Terrell Davis, John Mobley, Al Wilson, Ryan Clady, Elvis Dumervil and Brandon Marshall among others. Also had his fair share of disappointments led by Jarvis Moss, Maurice Clarett, George Foster, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks and Marcus Nash. The low points were the 2003 and 2004 drafts which basically netted one good player in DJ Williams, one contributor in Tatum Bell and about misses. The high point was probably 2006 when he drafted Marshall, Dumervil, Jay Cutler, Tony Scheffler and Chris Kuper. Not sure how the dynamic will work with Bruce Allen in Washington but in terms of his Denver drafting I'd say his grade falls right in the middle - to me at least.

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Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts?
The Goodmans are Jeff and his son John. Jeff was a well respected long-time scout/personnel guy and his son John was not so respected with a law background that he used to help parlay a job as an Assistant GM. In Shanahan's words, they deserved the credit for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 drafts (although I wouldn't want to take credit for 2007 as only 1 of 4 picks hit). The general consensus is that Jeff deserved the credit as Broncos owner Pat Bowlen wanted to reel in spending on garbage free agents (arguably Shanny's greatest weakness) and more emphasis was put on the draft. When Shanny was fired and Josh McDaniels hired, the original plan was for McDaniels to coach the team Goodman to handle the roster, but (in a much longer story for a different day) both Goodman's were suddenly fired about a month or so later and have been out of the league since. There was speculation they wanted to fired John and felt John had to go then too, there were rumblings McDaniels pulled Bowlen's strings to get it done. Nonetheless, I'm surprised Jeff's not back in the league with Shanny in Washington but I suppose with Allen there that might be too crowded.

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and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?
Great experience, the guy won 2 Super Bowls here. He's a legend who is the Joe Gibbs of the Denver Broncos, he has a freaking steakhouse in town and does radio commercial even though he isn't the coach anymore. There are many (not all, but many) fans who never thought he should have been fired because 1) you don't fire legendary coaches and/or 2) he wasn't doing a bad enough job to merit being fired. After John Elway's retirement the Broncos were a consistent playoff team but only one one playoff game that entire time and his final three years they missed the playoffs each season and hovered around .500 so the team pulled the plug. When hired by Washington I thought this would be a great chance for him to get a fresh start, and it may still be. Some of his strengths - preparation (you'll love the opening game script), offensive creativity, working with QBs, veteran players like him, good at working the media . Some of his weakness - free agency/trades for overpaid veterans, defense, takes on too much (not sure if that happens in Washington with Allen there), coddles players, generally weak assistant coaches with a few exceptions like Bobby Turner (now in Washington) and Alex Gibbs. Overall I think more time is needed because the job he took over in Washington is much different than when he took over in Denver. When he took the Broncos job he had John Elway and some good defensive players in place - added some nice cheap pieces in free agency (which didn't seem to work too well after the turn of the century) along with a few killer draft picks like TD and won two Super Bowls. The Redskins team he took over needed a true rebuild so it's kind of a new path for him. If I had to guess, I think he'll have success there eventually but the height of that success - I don't know.

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I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!
That's a debate that certainly rages on right now as a lot of Broncos fans would agree Peterson is probably the best player in the draft but the Broncos have been so weak up front for so long - and watched as having the best CB of this era Champ Bailey hasn't helped stop the defense from sucking - I think most fans are hoping to go DL.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:16 AM   #6
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What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft?
Shanahan's ability in talent evaluation is among the worst in the entire NFL for a person who actually has a say in personnel decisions. He has basically no ability to find players that fit a scheme and is very likely to reach on players based on need.

Shanahan's draft record is atrocious; Marcus Nash, George Foster, Deltha O'Neal, Willie Middlebrooks, Jarvis Moss, Ashley Lelie are all first round picks who never came close to being worthy of where they were taken in the draft.

He's gotten lucky with the occasional late round pick, Dumervil, TD, but the reason the Broncos are so brutally devoid of talent right now is a direct result of Shanahan's failure to draft.

He's equally poor in free agent acquisitions, btw.

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Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts? and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?
I think it's more a case of the blind chipmunk than anything. 2006 was a very talented class, but most of those guys are highly overhyped. 2007 was wasted on Jarvis Moss, and is only looks ok in comparison to years like 2003 where Shanahan couldn't find a legitimate starter with 10 selections.

In 2008 Clady was the biggest no brain selection ever. The Broncos were desperate for a LT and Clady fell. Not even Shanny could screw that up. I like Eddie Royal, but we passed on Desean Jackson to get him. I prefer Eddie the person, but I would take Jackson's play.

After that we're into the McDaniels era. So 2006 and beyond may look better at first glance, and was better in comparison to complete and utter failure. However it still sub-par compared to most teams.

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My opinion on the upcoming draft is that PP7, Prince, AJ Green and Marcel Dareus are the safest picks in the entire class. With PP7 being far and away the best prospect in the class. I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins
You're right about Peterson, I've been screaming for the Broncos to take him since January, but I could live with Dareus.

Good luck with Shanahan calling the draft shots, you're going to need it.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:25 AM   #7
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In 2008 Clady was the biggest no brain selection ever. The Broncos were desperate for a LT and Clady fell. Not even Shanny could screw that up.
His wonderlic score certainly attests to that.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:28 AM   #8
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You can't answer those questions better than Montrose did. Ignore the McDaniels fans.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:31 AM   #9
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it's a good thing Bruce Allen is the GM.....
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:40 AM   #10
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Just look for the player with the longest injury history and that will be Mike's guy.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:52 AM   #11
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Mike takes the blame for some of the drafts and the front office picks, but the reality is that replacing Ted Sudiquest with the Goodmans resulted in two epic drafts, with a draft fail in the middle. The 2007 draft - with Cutler, Marshall, Sheffler and Doom, should have set this franchise up for a decade, but McHoody traded away most of those pieces. The defense draft was a disaster - partially because the Broncos didn't trade up soon enough, and were left with Moss, who was a disaster.

In short, trust Shanahan with offensive players, especially late round steals. But flee in terror with defensive players.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:03 AM   #12
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Mike has knocked a few picks out of the park and others he completely botched. It's boom or bust with Shanny. TD is the classic example of it working out. Trading up for Jarvis Moss and Maurice Clarett is an example of when Mike sucks.

My personal opinion is Shanahan can't draft defense really at all. He'll get lucky on a few, like Al Wilson, or the overrated Darrent Williams, but in general he has no idea. He also drafted Travis McGriff because he was his Godson despite him not being NFL material.

In general I would say the draft isn't Shanny's strong suit. He's better at finding castoffs and getting them to play way over their head. If a player is good at something, he'll create a roll for that player so they can succeed. Even crappy guys like Tatum Bell and Darius Watts were able to get some decent touches and have an impact on games because Shanny finds a way to work them into his system.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by redskin troll View Post
Hello Bronco fans i come in peace. As you can see I'm a die hard redskin fan and i have some questions about Shannahan w/ regard to the draft. I figured this would be the best place to do some research.

What are your thoughts on Shannahan's ability to evaluate talent in the draft? Furthermore how can you explain the dramatic change in the quality of drafts classes that the broncos experienced from 2006 and beyond? Who are the Goodmans and what was thier role in the drafts? and finally what is your honest opionion on what Mike Shannahan brings to the redskins?

My opinion on the upcoming draft is that PP7, Prince, AJ Green and Marcel Dareus are the safest picks in the entire class. With PP7 being far and away the best prospect in the class. I think your beloved broncos should either go PP7 or Marcel Dareus. Buyer beware on Fairley. but what do i know i'm a frickin' skins fan!

Thanks for your time, good luck next year and Hail to the Redskins
Great coach, lousy GM. That is it in a nutshell. If Allen can handle the draft and the FA's and just let Shanny coach, the team will do well.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:25 AM   #14
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I think his drafts declined as his career went on. Schlereth attests it to his ego getting bigger and his defiance in taking advice.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #15
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Shanahan almost never traded down in the first round. In fact, I can only remember him doing it once. There were times that he certainly traded up... with questionable results. The reason we never had very many high 1st round picks under Shanahan is that we were consistent winners.

Shanahan is not the best D talent evaluator in the world when it comes to the draft, it would help if you have someone good on staff to help with that.
that could be true. i don't follow the draft much and don't play fantasy football, so i'll trust what you say. it always seemed as if the Broncos had fewer early round picks than most other teams during shanny's tenure. maybe that's because of picks lost as compensation for signing free agents, instead of direct trading of picks. either way, we didn't get alot of opportunities to draft elite players and shanny whiffed more often than not when he did.

i expect the same formula from him in DC, where he also has an impatient owner to deal with who is prone to splashy FA signings.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #16
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Just look for the player with the longest injury history and that will be Mike's guy.
And remember. Any draftee who has been interviewed up until this point, will NEVER be a Redskin.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:31 AM   #17
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And remember. Any draftee who has been interviewed up until this point, will NEVER be a Redskin.
oh yeah!
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:31 AM   #18
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And remember. Anyone who has been interviewed up until this point, will NEVER be a Redskin.
how can you possibly draft a "franchise QB" without ever meeting with him first? i guess that only makes sense to shanny. i wonder if shanny would have drafted cutler had shanny had the opportunity to meet with him first and discover cutler's personality quirks.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:32 AM   #19
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Great coach, lousy GM. That is it in a nutshell. If Allen can handle the draft and the FA's and just let Shanny coach, the team will do well.
This. Let Shanahan coach and nothing else. He rules on preparation and game day, but he really, really sucks as GM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:38 AM   #20
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Just look for the player with the longest injury history and that will be Mike's guy.
! And so true...
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:38 AM   #21
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Thanks guys for the great information. I find it interesting that you guys suggest that Shanny will not draft players that he interviews. can you give examples of both players he interviewed but passed on and players drafted that he didn't interview.
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Old 03-10-2011, 09:41 AM   #22
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Thanks guys for the great information. I find it interesting that you guys suggest that Shanny will not draft players that he interviews. can you give examples of both players he interviewed but passed on and players drafted that he didn't interview.
Never spoke to Cutler, got his advice on that one from Jeff Fisher.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:33 AM   #23
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Thanks guys for the great information. I find it interesting that you guys suggest that Shanny will not draft players that he interviews. can you give examples of both players he interviewed but passed on and players drafted that he didn't interview.
Shanny didn't interview draftees.

He depended on his scouts, position coaches, coordinators, nominal "GM" (whomever that was) to feed him info and generally went with whatever they recommended - for draftees. Maybe some outside info like with Cutler (Jeff Fisher) and Lelie (June Jones).

For FA's, Shanny was the point man. Shanny scored bigtime on FA's his first couple years as grand poobah in Denver, and kept thinking he'd score bigtime again in subsequent years.

I don't know how he'll work out for the Skins, he needs a QB as do all teams. He can keep you halfass competitive on O with crap.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:39 AM   #24
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Correct me if I am wrong, We did not trade up for MC.... But as I recall, Maurice Clarett was a compensatory pick at the end of round 3.

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Old 03-10-2011, 10:41 AM   #25
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Correct me if I am wrong.... But as I recall, Maurice Clarett was a compensatory pick at the end of round 3.
Correct.
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