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Old 02-01-2011, 10:47 PM   #1
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Default My case for Fairley, or if he is taken Darius.

One big thing constantly said about Fox is that he always has a strong defense. Peppers is constantly brought up with this. But I wanna look at Kris Jenkins.... he was a young stud, an abosolute clog in the middle, and when you look at John Fox's best defense ever, 2002, some would argue that Jenkins was the best player on that defense. The next year was also one of Carolina's best defensive years. After this Jenkins got hurt and eventually became a fat tub of **** and traded, but while they had a young stud in the middle is when thier defense was truely nasty. Jenkins is rarely brought up with Fox. I just beleive that a great DB is a luxury, a Great DE is very important, but a great DT is a neccesity.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:51 PM   #2
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Kris Jenkins was a 2nd round draft pick.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:52 PM   #3
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Kris Jenkins was a 2nd round draft pick.
I think you missed the point.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:53 PM   #4
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I think you missed the point.
I think you did.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:00 PM   #5
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I think you did.
You are so smart and clever.


Anyway, back on topic. We have not had a dominant DT since Trevor Pryce. Now that we are picking this high, we need to get someone who can be elite. Whether it be first round or second round, it needs to be addressed. I am happy we have a head coach that realizes the importance of a good line.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:09 PM   #6
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Either one of these guys would make me a supremely happy Bronco fan come draft day. It is mathematically guaranteed that we can get either Fairley or Dareus. So by my math, there is no way we draft either of them.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:19 PM   #7
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I think you missed the point.
Not at all.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:21 PM   #8
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Fox prefers (going on history) two athletic fat ****s in the middle. For years he started Kris Jenkins and that huge Somoan guy in the middle of his 4-3.

Whatever the case, defensive line is where it is at.

Building the defense from the back up is retarded. Two years ago we had two pro bowlers in the back four in Dawkins and Bailey and a darn good cover corner in Goodman who had 5 ints and our defense was giving up 30 some odd points a game during the back half the season. Our pass defense was ranked 5th or something.

We have been last in run defense the past two seasons. If we go DB with 2nd pick, good lord.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:26 PM   #9
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In 2009, Arizona had three pro-bowlers in their secondary:

Dominquie Rodgers Cromartie
Adrian Wilson
Antrelle Roll

And they were ranked 21st in points given up.

You don't build from the back up. Its stupid to do so.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:29 PM   #10
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Marcell Dareus I wouldn't mind at all having him.
Anytime you pick up a defensive player from Alabama, it'd more often than not a good player, an impact type player...
Dareus is a really versatile player. He plays the run and the pass great and can play in the 3-4 and 4-3
He's also a powerful pass rusher.
I've got most of this information on him by reading pieces and bits from several sources.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:31 PM   #11
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In 2009, Arizona went to the super bowl
fixed
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:41 PM   #12
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fixed


They went to the bowl for the 2008 season.

During the 2009 playoffs, the gave up 45 pts a game in their two playoff games. 45 pts in one game, then 45 pts in another game with their 3/4ths pro bowl secondary.

Understand now?
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:47 PM   #13
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If we were planning on rebuilding this defense in one off season, I'd agree that it's dumb or "retarded" to draft a CB at #2.

However, we won't be rebuilding this defense in one off season. Not going to happen. Because of this, it's imperative to take a guy who will not only be impactful immediately, but one who will be impactful in any system we institute and for a very, very long time. Also wouldn't mind avoiding a bust.

With each of these considerations, Peterson is the pick. I won't be upset if we end up with Fairley or Dareus, but I can definitely see value in picking Peterson at #2.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:02 AM   #14
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Whether it be first round or second round, it needs to be addressed.
I think you've also missed the fact that there isn't a single person on the OM arguing that the DL doesn't need to be addressed in the first two rounds.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:04 AM   #15
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They went to the bowl for the 2008 season.
ehh, close enough

my point is there is no particular way to build a team. you get good players and you get good coaches and you play to whatever your strengths are.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:06 AM   #16
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If we were planning on rebuilding this defense in one off season, I'd agree that it's dumb or "retarded" to draft a CB at #2.

However, we won't be rebuilding this defense in one off season. Not going to happen. Because of this, it's imperative to take a guy who will not only be impactful immediately, but one who will be impactful in any system we institute and for a very, very long time. Also wouldn't mind avoiding a bust.

With each of these considerations, Peterson is the pick. I won't be upset if we end up with Fairley or Dareus, but I can definitely see value in picking Peterson at #2.
It's true. The only thing that's "retarded" is thinking that we can build a defensive roster worthy of respect in a single draft.

Well, I personally think it's also "retarded" to skip over truly elite talent, but I'm in the minority on that one, I guess.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:07 AM   #17
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If we were planning on rebuilding this defense in one off season, I'd agree that it's dumb or "retarded" to draft a CB at #2.

However, we won't be rebuilding this defense in one off season. Not going to happen. Because of this, it's imperative to take a guy who will not only be impactful immediately, but one who will be impactful in any system we institute and for a very, very long time. Also wouldn't mind avoiding a bust.

With each of these considerations, Peterson is the pick. I won't be upset if we end up with Fairley or Dareus, but I can definitely see value in picking Peterson at #2.
Name the last CB to go in the top 3 or 4 of the draft. I don't think you can.

Hell, Champ Bailey ran a 4.28 at the combine and he went 7th! That's right, 7th! You are telling me that Champ wasn't the greatest prospect ever at CB when he entered?

CBs are luxuries for defense, not a necessity. If Fox plays zone a lot, what good is a Patrick Peterson?

As Champ has shown, having a lockdown cover corner doesn't do diddly for your defense. The last 3 out of the 4 years we have given up over 400 pts in a season. That's ridiculous. And Champ was shutting down fools on each one of those teams.

Take corners in the 2nd round if you want, but you have to get studs up front first.

Why should the Broncos be the first team to select a corner with the 2nd pick overall?

Its not going to happen.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:13 AM   #18
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ehh, close enough

my point is there is no particular way to build a team. you get good players and you get good coaches and you play to whatever your strengths are.
I don't get how that's difficult to understand.

You're not gonna be a great defense with Sydquan, Hill, and Dawkins in the secondary any sooner than you will with Marcus Thomas, DJ, Haggan, and Hunter on the front 7. They all need to be upgraded.

The degree to which they are upgraded is far more important than the order in which they're upgraded.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:13 AM   #19
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Well, I personally think it's also "retarded" to skip over truly elite talent, but I'm in the minority on that one, I guess.
How do you know that Patrick Peterson is THE elite talent at number two?

Is he any better than AJ Green? You could argue that Green is a better prospect than Peterson at his position.

So the Broncos should take Green. Because it is "retarded" to skip over truly elite talent, but I'm in the minority on that one, I guess
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:25 AM   #20
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Name the last CB to go in the top 3 or 4 of the draft. I don't think you can.

Hell, Champ Bailey ran a 4.28 at the combine and he went 7th! That's right, 7th! You are telling me that Champ wasn't the greatest prospect ever at CB when he entered?

CBs are luxuries for defense, not a necessity. If Fox plays zone a lot, what good is a Patrick Peterson?

As Champ has shown, having a lockdown cover corner doesn't do diddly for your defense. The last 3 out of the 4 years we have given up over 400 pts in a season. That's ridiculous. And Champ was shutting down fools on each one of those teams.

Take corners in the 2nd round if you want, but you have to get studs up front first.

Why should the Broncos be the first team to select a corner with the 2nd pick overall?

Its not going to happen.
This is entirely specious.

"Don't do something because it's not been done by others". That's your take?

Wasn't Mario Williams on the 2nd worst defense in the NFL? How does that play on your take? DEs must not have an impact. Mario is proof. So is Adam Carriker. Dan Willliams was a first round DT, helped the Cardinals to the 29th ranked defense. DTs must not be valuable either, right? Tyson Alualu was a top 10 DT, the Jaguars must have had an awesome defense with the addition of him, umm..oops. I guess he's not valuable either. That must mean that DTs really aren't valuable.

Can we please stop with he dim-witted "we've been bad with Champ so CBs have no value" takes. They're just beyond tired at this point. Taking a single player from a bad unit and saying that position has no value because of it is just day one stupid.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:28 AM   #21
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How do you know that Patrick Peterson is THE elite talent at number two?
I don't, and you know nothing about any of the DL either.

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Is he any better than AJ Green? You could argue that Green is a better prospect than Peterson at his position.
Well, actually Peterson completely shut Green down head to head, but I'm sure you've studied that film and are well aware of that fact.

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So the Broncos should take Green. Because it is "retarded" to skip over truly elite talent, but I'm in the minority on that one, I guess
See above.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:30 AM   #22
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Ohhhh snap, now you've done it, gone and angered up Dedhead and the Patrick Peterson brigade!

Shawn Springs I believe was the highest a CB has ever been taken and that was 3rd.

We have absolutely nothing in the middle of the line, especially if moving to a 4-3, at least we have some promising young DB's, and I wouldnt mind adding a Jimmy Smith in the 2nd or finding some safety help, but please shore up the D-line with a potential difference maker before doing anything else!
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:34 AM   #23
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This is entirely specious.

"Don't do something because it's not been done by others". That's your take?

Wasn't Mario Williams on the 2nd worst defense in the NFL? How does that play on your take? DEs must not have an impact. Mario is proof. So is Adam Carriker. Dan Willliams was a first round DT, helped the Cardinals to the 29th ranked defense. DTs must not be valuable either, right? Tyson Alualu was a top 10 DT, the Jaguars must have had an awesome defense with the addition of him, umm..oops. I guess he's not valuable either. That must mean that DTs really aren't valuable.

Can we please stop with he dim-witted "we've been bad with Champ so CBs have no value" takes. They're just beyond tired at this point. Taking a single player from a bad unit nd saying that position has no value because of it is just day one stupid.
Weren't you the dim-wit that said because players from position x (dline) bust, so its better to go with a player from postion y (secondary) because they don't bust as much?

One has nothing to do with the other.

The fact of the matter is that no one has Peterson going in the top two. No one. It's either Fairley or Bowers. Why is that? Because they are the two top rated players in the draft.

You keep thinking that Peterson is the only "elite" prospect at number which is moronic.

I could see if the top four players were a guard, QB, LB, and CB and you are harping that we take Peterson because it is the only logical thing to do. I get that. But in this draft, the top four players are a DT, DE, CB, and a WR. We are not reaching to take a position of need. We are taking the right player - which will be dline.

You seem to have trouble understanding this.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:40 AM   #24
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Well, actually Peterson completely shut Green down head to head, but I'm sure you've studied that film and are well aware of that fact.


See above.
They didn't even play each other this year, numbnuts. But I'm sure you know that. And when they did play each other, Georgia had Mohhamed Massoqui as their number one receiver. 50 pts Georgia put up that game. But Peterson shut down Green!! Shut him down!!

What was that, three years ago?
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:45 AM   #25
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Weren't you the dim-wit that said because players from position x (dline) bust, so its better to go with a player from postion y (secondary) because they don't bust as much?

One has nothing to do with the other.
This is like saying that a pair has nothing to do with a straight flush in poker. Sure, they're different, but one has a far greater probability of working out for you

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The fact of the matter is that no one has Peterson going in the top two. No one.
http://newnfldraft.com/
It took until the first google result to come up with that. Amzing this interweb thing.


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You keep thinking that Peterson is the only "elite" prospect at number which is moronic.
Green is an elite prospect as well. I think I covered that already though, and I don't recall your response.
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