The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-14-2011, 06:57 AM   #1
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
Default How Long Has Elway Known He Was Hiring Fox?

Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-14-2011, 07:02 AM   #2
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,776
Default

Very possible and I wouldn't be surprised if some elements of your "theory" are accurate. Although it's also possible that after talking to Fox it was very clear that he was the best candidate and they wanted to get it done and start moving forward as soon as possible. I will comment that his interview being delayed because of the weather in Charlotte is 100% legit.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:06 AM   #3
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,442

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:07 AM   #4
broncswin
God I love those Broncos
 
broncswin's Avatar
 
Bring back the hardware

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broncos Fantasy Land
Posts: 2,187

Adopt-a-Bronco:
three amigos
Default

but...but...nobody wants to coach the broncos...lol. It just baffles me that people really think that. Then the most qualified, best choice for the job ends up here.
broncswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:08 AM   #5
Dukes
Ring of Famer
 
Dukes's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,169
Default

With the exception of Fox's interview being pushed back to give other guys time I'd say you're on to something.
Dukes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:08 AM   #6
broncswin
God I love those Broncos
 
broncswin's Avatar
 
Bring back the hardware

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broncos Fantasy Land
Posts: 2,187

Adopt-a-Bronco:
three amigos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.

Actually, you do have to go through the motions...this is a business move.
broncswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:13 AM   #7
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,442

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncswin View Post
[/B]
Actually, you do have to go through the motions...this is a business move.
Really? How many coaches did the Browns, Panthers, Cowboys and Vikings interview? Nobody in Denver had heard of Koetter, you really think they brought him in to please the masses?
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:13 AM   #8
TheElusiveKyleOrton
BOOM.
 
TheElusiveKyleOrton's Avatar
 
Touched By God

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 10,982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.
Are you kidding?

**** yes you bring them all in, even if you know who you're going with. The mane would absolutely implode if we just interviewed and hired Fox without talking to a single other coach. The Post boards, every message board, the national media, would all have a field day with that.

I've done hiring where I knew who I wanted, what I was looking for, and still interviewed others. It wasn't a waste of time. I think it was a worthwhile exercise.
__________________
Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.
TheElusiveKyleOrton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:15 AM   #9
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,442

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton View Post
Are you kidding?

**** yes you bring them all in, even if you know who you're going with. The mane would absolutely implode if we just interviewed and hired Fox without talking to a single other coach. The Post boards, every message board, the national media, would all have a field day with that.

I've done hiring where I knew who I wanted, what I was looking for, and still interviewed others. It wasn't a waste of time. I think it was a worthwhile exercise.
Yeah, fear the message boards. Where's the uproar in the other cities?
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:16 AM   #10
ColoradoDarin
Not Too Shabby Poster
 
ColoradoDarin's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Wilson, NC
Posts: 8,252

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CJ
Default

Eh, I don't think it was totally planned ahead, but I think they were leaning his way prior to face-to-face interviews. There's a lot that goes into just getting to the interview phase. Additionally, I don't think Elway made Charlotte get snowed in. And Fox wearing Bronco colors to the interview? Just smart!
ColoradoDarin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:17 AM   #11
TheElusiveKyleOrton
BOOM.
 
TheElusiveKyleOrton's Avatar
 
Touched By God

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 10,982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Yeah, fear the message boards. Where's the uproar in the other cities?
The other cities didn't just go through a major front office shakeup, firing a coach before the end of the season.

The other cities' fanbases haven't been as split as the one in Denver. Not even close.

But sure. It's a waste of time to interview multiple people for a job even if you know the person or direction you want to go with. You don't run a business, do you?

As for the message boards, I don't think it's fear. I think it's respect. Message boards are a pretty good litmus test for how the diehards are leaning, and if you capture the hearts and minds of the diehards, you can easily capture the rest. These days, ignore the power of the internet at your own peril.
__________________
Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.
TheElusiveKyleOrton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:25 AM   #12
worm
Great moments are born...
 
worm's Avatar
 
...from great opportunity

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,899

Adopt-a-Bronco:
#20
Default

Stop reading that conspiracy thread Drek. It doesn't have to be that complicated.

The Broncos are not a great fit for every HC. People not wanting to interview here is not part of some vast plan that was discovered by potential interviewees. We just aren't desirable to some candidates....like Atlanta after the Vick and Patrino fiascoes.

The Broncos didn't make it snow

Fox did a great job at interviewing. He wore orange...mentioned John's dad....basically did everything he could to endear himself to the brass. Great tactics for a detail oriented man.
worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:28 AM   #13
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,442

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Juwan Thompson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton View Post
The other cities didn't just go through a major front office shakeup, firing a coach before the end of the season.

The other cities' fanbases haven't been as split as the one in Denver. Not even close.

But sure. It's a waste of time to interview multiple people for a job even if you know the person or direction you want to go with. You don't run a business, do you?

As for the message boards, I don't think it's fear. I think it's respect. Message boards are a pretty good litmus test for how the diehards are leaning, and if you capture the hearts and minds of the diehards, you can easily capture the rest. These days, ignore the power of the internet at your own peril.
I've hired many people. I think you're getting a little excited. I simply disagree with the notion Fox was a forgone conclusion. Citing his interview was pushed back as an example was silly. I believe the other candidates were brought in because they were under real consideration. Maybe the bar for them was higher, but they weren't PR moves.

Also, have you really done a study on the fan bases in Cleveland, Carolina, Dallas and Minnesota? And Dallas and Minny did have in-season firings. You don't think Clevelanders are sick of the failure there and may not be into the old buddy network that led to Shurmur?
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:31 AM   #14
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
I will comment that his interview being delayed because of the weather in Charlotte is 100% legit.
I'm not saying the reason it was pushed back wasn't legit, just the point where it was pushed back to is interesting. Not the day before Koetter and Dennison, who interviewed on the same day, but instead the day after. They set the dates for Koetter and Dennison after they knew Fox' interview was pushed back.

Had Charlotte not been snow bound its likely the dog and pony show would have included a "second interview" for Fox. As it stood though he'd already been bumped back a few days and they wanted to get assistants in place.

Hell, rumors of him bringing Jim Mora and a couple of his assistants in Carolina are already starting up.

I'm not saying its a bad thing. In fact, being able to work a back room deal like that successfully under the radar is a major key to Elway being a good NFL exec.. It's just interesting (to me) that we probably just saw the first real high level NFL move of Elway's career as VP.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:35 AM   #15
Kaylore
4 time AFCW Champs
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
12 straight road division wins

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 47,266

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Yes, Elway made it snow in the East!! Also, it's standard that contract parameters are discussed before interviews to make sure everyone's time isn't being wasted. Obviously there was research and talks with every candidate outside those meetings but I don't think you need to go through the circus of bringing in Koetter, Dennison and Fewell just for the sake of it.
I don't believe this theory that we just went through the motions with the other guys, necessarily. However I can believe he was the front runner considering what Elway said he wants (previous head coaching experience in college or pro) in a coach. The reason you bring other candidates in is to do your due diligence, and at the very least you get a free scouting report out of it so you can see what other people around the league think of your team and what needs to be addressed. That information alone is worth the interview, even a "fake" one.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:37 AM   #16
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,334
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Yeah, fear the message boards. Where's the uproar in the other cities?
1. Elway has explicitly outlined "getting back in touch with the fans" as a key focus going forward. "Touch points" and all that. Giving the fans a look into a "full disclosure" coaching search is a good way to go about that.

2. NFL teams are required to interview minority candidates, and multiple times we've seen organizations interview people when their "guy" was already pretty clear to give the up and coming coordinators a chance to interview and to keep up appearances.

3. You never know what happens in the interview process. The Steelers FO were basically positive they were promoting Ken Whisenhunt to HC but while obeying the Rooney Rule they interviewed Tomlin and were blown away.

What I'm saying is I wouldn't be at all surprised if Elway had been in touch with Fox directly, knew the contract parameters, and Fox went into the interview with the knowledge that as long as he didn't blow it with the rest of the FO and no one else blew them out of the water the job was his.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:40 AM   #17
Wes Mantooth
Ring of Famer
 
Wes Mantooth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,906
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.
Or maybe he's just that smooth.... Like Kieth Stone.
Wes Mantooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:41 AM   #18
Ray Finkle
DOOONNNTTTTT CAAARRREEE!
 
Ray Finkle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 7,532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Consider these factoids:

1. Mularkey and Williams both deferred to interview, at least during the "initial phase", for their own somewhat valid reasons. But both are well connected around the league and likely in the known a lot more than any reporter would be.

2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.

3. While Bowlen was supposedly present in every interview the Fox one is the only video upload where you see Pat in the room at the very start.

4. Fox referenced knowing John and John's father in his video session on the way to interview, hinting at a long term relationship of some kind.

5. The supposed "second phase of interviews" just disappeared overnight after interviewing Fox.

6. Contract negotiations were apparently resolved to the point of announcing a deal within 24 hours of his first interview.

Add in little tidbits like how Fox's video interview sounded like a man who already had the job and was ready to go to work, the fact that he showed up wearing team colors (blue shirt and orange tie) for the interview, all the candidates we interviewed were coordinators who had never been a full season NFL HC. etc..

Can't help but feel like Elway knew where he was going from the start, that he had already talked with Fox on at least some level before the interview, likely before even receiving permission from Carolina, since that only just came down at about the beginning of the week or so. Feels like Elway was just biding his time until Fox was free to sign.
if that was known, Adam "Nutty" Schefter and Mike "Meatball" Lomardi would have been all over it.

the interviews were delayed due to weather

he was interviewed twice. Wednesday afternoon and Thursday morning.
Ray Finkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:43 AM   #19
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
What I'm saying is I wouldn't be at all surprised if Elway had been in touch with Fox directly, knew the contract parameters, and Fox went into the interview with the knowledge that as long as he didn't blow it with the rest of the FO and no one else blew them out of the water the job was his.
That I can completely agree with. Makes sense that an experienced guy like Fox wouldn't want to bother wasting his (and the Broncos') time unless it was a job situation he was interested in, and knowing at least the general parameters up front would help him assess that.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:44 AM   #20
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Finkle View Post
if that was known, Adam "Nutty" Schefter and Mike "Meatball" Lomardi would have been all over it.
Don't be so sure. These guys were predicting Dennison as late as yesterday afternoon.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:47 AM   #21
worm
Great moments are born...
 
worm's Avatar
 
...from great opportunity

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,899

Adopt-a-Bronco:
#20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I don't believe this theory that we just went through the motions with the other guys, necessarily. However I can believe he was the front runner considering what Elway said he wants (previous head coaching experience in college or pro) in a coach. The reason you bring other candidates in is to do your due diligence, and at the very least you get a free scouting report out of it so you can see what other people around the league think of your team and what needs to be addressed. That information alone is worth the interview, even a "fake" one.
This level of forethought I could see.

I think Elway had preformed opinions of wanting to like Fox. I would go as far as saying it was his job to lose.

Elway mentioned that he had and would continue to reach out to Ernie Accorsi to bounce ideas off of. Ernie appeared to like Fox a lot.

"Even during a successful stint as defensive coordinator of the New York Giants, a team that he helped direct to the Super Bowl in 2000, Fox wasn't much for the spotlight. New York general manager Ernie Accorsi opined that, of all the assistants with whom he has worked during his long career in the league, Fox was one of the very few he felt confident could cut it as a head coach."


I have no doubt that Ernie gave thumbs up to John Fox as a HC and that was a direction that John Elway taking his first babysteps as VP was willing to trust.

The interview timing...and any withdrawl by other candidates is where I think this all goes off the tracks for the Drek postulations.
worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:51 AM   #22
HAT
I think, therefore I ham.
 
HAT's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,855

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Adam Weber
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Really? How many coaches did the Browns, Panthers, Cowboys and Vikings interview? Nobody in Denver had heard of Koetter, you really think they brought him in to please the masses?
If true....It's unfortunate that the Pac-10 decided to let those CU hippies into the P-12
HAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:12 AM   #23
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
2. Fox's interview just happened to be pushed back until everyone else had been interviewed.
The interviews were pushed back because Fox had two flights cancelled due to weather. I live in the area, and there was a lot of snow and ice this week (relevant to the region, in any case), so I know that wasn't some smoke screen.
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:15 AM   #24
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,424
Default

Also, if Elway knew he was going to get Fox from the beginning, why waste money on the search firm?
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:27 AM   #25
Missouribronc
Ring of Famer
 
Missouribronc's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,671

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
Also, if Elway knew he was going to get Fox from the beginning, why waste money on the search firm?
Bowlen is broke. This cannot be true. Must have been pro bono work.
Missouribronc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:17 AM.


Denver Broncos