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Old 01-04-2011, 11:14 AM   #1
bronco0608
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Default If you didn't like Jake Plummer, how can you be a fan of Tebow?

These two guys are amazingly similiar. When you talk Tebow, the one player on this planet that seems similiar to him was our very own Jake Plummer.

1) Both guys accuracy leave something to be desired for.

2) They are both great scramblers out of the pocket

3) They are both winners: Jake lost in the National Championship game to Ohio State, giving ASU its best season ever for that school. Plummer took the lowly, terrible Cardinals (probably the worst run organization in football at the time with their cheap owner Bidwell) to the playoffs and beat the Cowboys in the playoffs during that run.

Plummer then came to Denver and led them to three straight playoff births, an AFC championship game, and the teams second best winning percentage of all time over his stretch.

Tebow: 2 national championships at Florida, one as a starter.

4) Both players are tremendous leaders.

5) Both players fell in the draft due to questions about their accuracy and arm strength.

6) One guys praises Jesus, the other one looked like Jesus.

7) Both dudes play with a lot heart and passion for the game.

Tebow is Tebow, I get that. No one is exactly like him. But you have to admit, his game is a lot like Plummers.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:19 AM   #2
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Tebow throws a much better deep ball.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:20 AM   #3
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I liked Jake. I like Tebow more.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #4
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Seriously? Do you really think Tebow plays anything like Plummer? Seriously?
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #5
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Jake was a flaky hippie. I always suspected he smelled of patchouli.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #6
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Which Plummer are you talking about:




Who knows? It could be that Tebow has the same limitations as Plummer and will choke when the playoff pressure or big game is on. I don't think so though.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #7
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:22 AM   #8
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He's a lot like Plummer if Jake was an inch taller, 30 pounds heavier, had all world natural athleticism, a strong arm, and excelled at dropping the deep ball on his receivers.

As for accuracy, Plummer's collegiate completion percentage was nearly 20% worse than Tebow's. Not exactly an apples to apples "he's not accurate" debate coming out of college. But Plummer's NFL rate did actually end up matching his collegiate rate. Wonder if Tebow's will too.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:24 AM   #9
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He's a lot like Plummer if Jake was an inch taller, 30 pounds heavier, had all world natural athleticism, a strong arm, and excelled at dropping the deep ball on his receivers.

As for accuracy, Plummer's collegiate completion percentage was nearly 20% worse than Tebow's. Not exactly an apples to apples "he's not accurate" debate coming out of college. But Plummer's NFL rate did actually end up matching his collegiate rate. Wonder if Tebow's will too.
I doubt it. Tebow's mechanics prevent him from being a 67-68% passer at this point. I think you will see him around 60% which would be a vast improvement from the small sample size we have seen.

He seems to have an issue with the throws to the outside of the numbers.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:25 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bronco0608 View Post
These two guys are amazingly similiar. When you talk Tebow, the one player on this planet that seems similiar to him was our very own Jake Plummer.

1) Both guys accuracy leave something to be desired for.

2) They are both great scramblers out of the pocket

3) They are both winners: Jake lost in the National Championship game to Ohio State, giving ASU its best season ever for that school. Plummer took the lowly, terrible Cardinals (probably the worst run organization in football at the time with their cheap owner Bidwell) to the playoffs and beat the Cowboys in the playoffs during that run.

Plummer then came to Denver and led them to three straight playoff births, an AFC championship game, and the teams second best winning percentage of all time over his stretch.

Tebow: 2 national championships at Florida, one as a starter.

4) Both players are tremendous leaders.

5) Both players fell in the draft due to questions about their accuracy and arm strength.

6) One guys praises Jesus, the other one looked like Jesus.

7) Both dudes play with a lot heart and passion for the game.

Tebow is Tebow, I get that. No one is exactly like him. But you have to admit, his game is a lot like Plummers.
I liked Plummer but not your comparison.

1) Tebow is WAYYYYY more accurate on deep ball. Plummer couldn't throw it deep to save his life. Plummer was pretty accurate on short and medium routes, and more so than Tebow is now, but he was also like a 10 year vet by the time we got him.

2) Jake was a good scrambler but doesn't come close to comparing to Tebow in this area.

3) Jake was a winner when it wasn't a big game and everything was going right. He also folded at the first sign that he had competition.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:26 AM   #11
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Jake didn't even like football. Didn't like to practice, only liked game days. Tebow lives and dies on every practice play, every game day play etc... Big difference IMO.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:30 AM   #12
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He's a lot like Plummer if Jake was an inch taller, 30 pounds heavier, had all world natural athleticism, a strong arm, and excelled at dropping the deep ball on his receivers.

As for accuracy, Plummer's collegiate completion percentage was nearly 20% worse than Tebow's. Not exactly an apples to apples "he's not accurate" debate coming out of college. But Plummer's NFL rate did actually end up matching his collegiate rate. Wonder if Tebow's will too.
1) Tebow isn't a better athlete than Plummer. Plummer was fast. Tebow is bigger. They are just different athletes, imo. Both good though.

2) College passing completetion has risen dramatically since the days of Plummer. Even Elway at Stanford has similiar season's passing wise like Plummer in College. In both their third seasons in college, John and Jake both completed the same percentage of passes.

3) Deep ball? eh, I don't know yet. Tebow is better than plummer though. How good he is, only time will tell. He is not all world at it, though.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:36 AM   #13
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1) Tebow isn't a better athlete than Plummer. Plummer was fast. Tebow is bigger. They are just different athletes, imo. Both good though.
Tebow blows Plummer away in athleticism, IMO. I don't even see it as a close contest.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:38 AM   #14
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Tebow blows Plummer away in athleticism, IMO. I don't even see it as a close contest.
Does he play a mean game of handball though?
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:38 AM   #15
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Who knows? It could be that Tebow has the same limitations as Plummer and will choke when the playoff pressure or big game is on. I don't think so though.
That is exactly what I'm saying. They both have the same limitations in their games.

As far as Plummer choking in the playoffs, he did beat two dynasty teams in Dallas and New England during his career. Elway's playoff stats will shock you if you look at it objectively, taking nothing else but his stats into consideration.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:45 AM   #16
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1) Tebow isn't a better athlete than Plummer. Plummer was fast. Tebow is bigger. They are just different athletes, imo. Both good though.
Tebow was arguably the single best athlete in his entire draft class. WRs, DBs, RBs, etc.. He is the best athlete to enter the NFL at the QB position not named Michael Vick within the last 20 years.

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2) College passing completetion has risen dramatically since the days of Plummer. Even Elway at Stanford has similiar season's passing wise like Plummer in College. In both their third seasons in college, John and Jake both completed the same percentage of passes.
John's career rate ended up pretty close to Plummer's as well, FYI.

Different era for sure, but its also a different era in the NFL. While most starting QBs have mild if any shifts in their completion rates from college to the pros we're suddenly supposed to believe that Tebow is the rare exception and that is completion rate will drop 20+ percent? That just doesn't pass the smell test.

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3) Deep ball? eh, I don't know yet. Tebow is better than plummer though. How good he is, only time will tell. He is not all world at it, though.
Great. I do. He might not put everything together to go with it, but when Tebow actually has the chance to go deep to an open WR he throws a deep ball comparable to Aaron Rogers in form, trajectory, and accuracy. He has a rare talent for the deep ball that some refer to as "dropping it in the bucket". That ability to arc a deep pass into the outstretched hands of a WR. This is why Aaron Rogers, despite not having the best arm in the world, throws the best deep ball in the NFL today. It is a rare natural talent and if you watch Tebow throughout college, the pre-season, and his three starts in the regular season you can see that touch on deep passes.

This doesn't mean Tebow will be an elite deep passer, just that the natural ability to be one is there. He still needs the right offensive scheme, blocking, WRs, etc. to put it all together. But the natural ability to destroy defenses for letting a WR get behind them is present like very few others in the NFL.

Tebow compares to Jake Plummer well if you acknowledge that Tebow is basically Plummer 2.0 where all the biggest issues with Plummer have been replaced with strengths. Tebow is far from fully developed, but the package of skills he brings overall are more comparable to Steve Young than Jake Plummer.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #17
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As far as Plummer choking in the playoffs, he did beat two dynasty teams in Dallas and New England during his career.
Arizona's defense held Dallas to 7 pts. Plummer rewarded them by throwing 2 picks that game. He was along for the ride there.

Same against NE. The defense and special teams carried him in that game. Todd freaking Sauerbrun had more to do with it than Plummer did.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:48 AM   #18
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Arizona's defense held Dallas to 7 pts. Plummer rewarded them by throwing 2 picks that game. He was along for the ride there.

Same against NE. The defense and special teams carried him in that game. Todd freaking Sauerbrun had more to do with it than Plummer did.
Then Elway's first super bowl win was because of Terrell Davis and our defense, right? Elway had like a 130 yards passing in that game.

I believe elway had a career 75 qb rating in the playoffs. Is that choking?
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:49 AM   #19
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you forgot that they both throw lefty at times
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:49 AM   #20
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That is exactly what I'm saying. They both have the same limitations in their games.

As far as Plummer choking in the playoffs, he did beat two dynasty teams in Dallas and New England during his career. Elway's playoff stats will shock you if you look at it objectively, taking nothing else but his stats into consideration.


see bottom of page

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...aJo00/gamelog/
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #21
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Interesting thread, and I've made the comparison a few times around here.

I loved Jake. All he did was win games and put up a 2:1 TD/INT ratio while he was Denver. But, he had limitations of course.

Tebow absolutely reminds me of Jake. He'll have to work with a real offensive guru as a coach, and he'll need a game-plan tailored to his skill-set. He's not a prototypical NFL QB and probably won't be.

But as to the OP, c'mon... you know how this works. Most people disliked Jake because of a love for Griese. Then, those same people loved Cutler... despite his flaws, then hated Orton, despite him playing pretty well.

Don't look for logic around here.

I like Tebow and I think he's got a real shot to succeed if things are correctly put in place around him. Hopefully he'll be what Jake was to us back in the day... a guy who can spark this team to being a winner again.

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Old 01-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #22
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Even though he had his flaws, there was a lot to like about Plummer. However, his one glaring weakness that couldn't be overcome was his pathetically weak arm on intermediate throws across the middle and to the sidelines. He was also pretty useless unless we rolled him out of the pocket. These shortcomings drastically limited our offense, and directly lead to Shanahan going with Cutler.

I'm not saying Tebow has the arm of Elway or Favre, b/c he doesn't. But it's plenty good enough to get the job done (above NFL average, IMO), and miles better than Plummer's.

Will Tebow pan-out in the long term? Who knows, but I'll take his combination of arm strength, size, athleticism, running ability, and determination any day of the week. Like him or not, he's either going to be a great QB or kill himself trying. I can get behind that for a few years--we're probably going to suck for a little while longer regardless, and at least with Tebow, the suckage will be fun to watch, and the risk/reward potential for giving him a chance is through the roof...
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #23
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I doubt it. Tebow's mechanics prevent him from being a 67-68% passer at this point. I think you will see him around 60% which would be a vast improvement from the small sample size we have seen.

He seems to have an issue with the throws to the outside of the numbers.
?

I would guess that nearly 25% of his completions have come on out-routes. I've been much more disturbed by the lack of anything over the middle. In three games he hasn't thrown a single slant or drag over the middle that I can remember. You can't be successful in the NFL if you can't get a slant off in the face of a blitz.

But outside the numbers? He's been really good. Go watch the last TD drive against the Chargers. It was out-after-out. The pass to Decker was a roll-out.... but outside the numbers still.
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:52 AM   #24
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yeah, the only thing that matters is 14 wins and only 8 losses in the playoffs

22 playoff games...wuff, that's a good career
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Old 01-04-2011, 11:52 AM   #25
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Then Elway's first super bowl win was because of Terrell Davis and our defense, right? Elway had like a 130 yards passing in that game.

I believe elway had a career 75 qb rating in the playoffs. Is that choking?
Ummmm, I can at least cite games where Elway was SUPERB in the playoffs or in elimination games. One simply cannot do the same for Plummer. He sucked in every playoff game he lost and he sucked in every playoff game he won.

Did Elway choke in some playoff games? Sure. Did he choke in all of them? Nope. Would he have won the first one without TD in the lineup? Probably not. None of that changes my argument about Plummer above.
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