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Old 01-02-2011, 01:17 PM   #1
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Default Could Carolina pull off a Hershel Walker deal for Luck?

Remember how the Cowboys parlayed Minnesota GM Mike Lynn's fascination with Herschel Walker into a draft bonanza that produced 3 Superbowls in the biggest blockbuster trade in NFL history back in '89? No...most of you don't I guess...lol. Basically Mike Lynn was hosed by Jerry Jones big time.

So I started thinking about the strategic nature of the timing for this Andrew Luck sweepstakes, coming as it does with a potential NFL lockout happening as well as the possibility the league locks in the 2012 draft order...and a startling reality occured to me...if two things happen, history might repeat itself.

Imagine the following:

--John Gruden goes to Carolina as their new coach (he likes Tebow)
--The NFL locks out the players in 2011, and locks in the draft order for 2012

If those two things happen...yes it's a long shot but play along here... ...this will be fun I promise...Carolina could rebuild in two years from 2-14 to a playoff team by hosing the Broncos for Andrew Luck and a few additional maneuvers.

Gruden loves Tebow, so he trades the #1 pick for Tebow, the #2 pick, our 2nd this year and our #1 next season. (their gonne get a ****-load of picks from somewhere don't kid yourself) This could almost be reasonably sold to Denver's fan base, especially considering who it is that would do the selling...Elway himself...I say "almost".) The deal would be two picks near the top of the draft, and a 2nd rounder plus Tebow, who we won't need since we would then have Luck. In other words, for the "next Peyton Manning", we surrender our wonderfully exciting project QB, (who needs work according to Elway himself), and two picks near the top of the draft plus a 2nd rounder. Having the Dolphins #2 next year would reduce the sting a bit.

Taking advantage of Elway's fondness for Luck, plus the fact that Harbaugh is now in Denver AND the fact that Denver can hand them tremendous flexibility with the #2 pick...Gruden does the following...check it out:

He trades down from our former #2 spot to say, #6 plus a 2nd and a 3rd rounder for that pick in this draft.

Carolina's potential draft bonanza

1. Tim Tebow
2. Nick Fairley (Bowers, etc).
3. Denver's pick at approx #34 in the 2nd round and our 3rd rounder, approx #66 overall (The order changes round by round with teams with the same record switching positions but this is close enough).
4. Second trading partner's #2 pick, about #38 overall, plus their 3rd rounder, probably about #70
5. 2012-Panthers have locked in the #1 pick plus Denver's locked in pick at the #2 spot

This would be Walker like...

Tebow
Fairley (or Bowers, etc)
2011-picks at #33, #34, #38, #65, #66 and #70 (approximate order)
2012- picks at #1, #2, #33

In other words, Carolina could parlay Andrew Luck into a windfall that combined with their own picks, could conceivably give them 4 first round picks, (or players picked in the first round including Tebow) plus four 2nds and three 3rds in the next two years...a total of 11 players picked in the top 70 over the next two drafts. With a rookie cap coming...why not?

That's almost exactly how the Cowboys built their dynasty off the trade for Hershel Walker.

Last edited by footstepsfrom#27; 01-02-2011 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:22 PM   #2
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except that Walker was an established pro....
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
Gruden loves Tebow, so he trades the #1 pick for Tebow, the #2 pick, our 2nd this year and our #1 next season.
If this happens I will likely throw myself off a building.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:28 PM   #4
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gruden is not going to carolina. already reported today. speculation on that is silly.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:29 PM   #5
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except that Walker was an established pro....
An OLD established pro...one who was not a QB.

Does anyone remember that Al Davis offered much more than Denver did for Elway? I think it was 3 1's and 3 2's or something like that.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:31 PM   #6
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gruden is not going to carolina. already reported today. speculation on that is silly.
Why is that? They have an opening...he's coached in the deep south. I can think of sillier things...like hiring a college coach with 28 wins who built his resume on the strength of two guys finishing at the top of the Heisman balloting and one who has almost no NFL coaching experience.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:36 PM   #7
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Why is that? They have an opening...he's coached in the deep south. I can think of sillier things...like hiring a college coach with 28 wins who built his resume on the strength of two guys finishing at the top of the Heisman balloting and one who has almost no NFL coaching experience.
because its not going to happen, the owner is too cheap and wont hire a big name coach, especially one that doesnt appear to be receiving much interest across the league. go read the recent reports and stop with the fantasies.

im hoping someday that the people here learn that coaching and being a HC is more then the number of years you have been coaching and your resume as coordinator. its about the ability to coordinate and lead a team of coaches and players, and when NFL executives see something like that in harbaugh that they think will apply to their team, they have to go with it. just because hes only coached for 2 years doesnt discount his ability to lead a team and be successful.

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Old 01-02-2011, 01:51 PM   #8
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because its not going to happen, the owner is too cheap and wont hire a big name coach, especially one that doesnt appear to be receiving much interest across the league. go read the recent reports and stop with the fantasies.
The owner is cheap? How much is Peppers making? That's a flimsy argument when there is a new bargaining agreement coming that will cap rookie salaries.
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im hoping someday that the people here learn that coaching and being a HC is more then the number of years you have been coaching and your resume as coordinator. its about the ability to coordinate and lead a team of coaches and players, and when NFL executives see something like that in harbaugh that they think will apply to their team, they have to go with it. just because hes only coached for 2 years doesnt discount his ability to lead a team and be successful.
Sounds like something you could have regurgitated from your Josh McDaniels defense files. The fact is...this guy isn't qualified based on his resume if experience means anything...and it does. Does that mean he can't be successful? No of course not...but we have no reason based on his background to believe he's anywhere near the best choice here...unless of course you think Luck is part of this deal as well.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #9
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Don't get hysterical.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:55 PM   #10
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Why do people continue to concoct fantasies where Luck comes out yet Carolina passes on him?

They need a QB. They spent the entire year flip flopping on Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen. They've obviously seen enough of both and unless their management likes to rock the crack pipe there is no way they feel comfortable with either. You don't pass up prospects like Luck when you need a QB, and you don't trade out on them unless your hand is forced into it.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:30 PM   #11
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We need to make our own LUCK.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:34 PM   #12
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Still.... I fail to see where Luck has even stated he is going pro. I swear ESPN sucks as bad as some of the posters here.

Someone has more time on their hands than the village wino.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:35 PM   #13
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gruden is not going to carolina. already reported today. speculation on that is silly.
footsteps is just throwing sh*t against the wall to see what will stick.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:36 PM   #14
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Why do people continue to concoct fantasies where Luck comes out yet Carolina passes on him?

They need a QB. They spent the entire year flip flopping on Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen. They've obviously seen enough of both and unless their management likes to rock the crack pipe there is no way they feel comfortable with either. You don't pass up prospects like Luck when you need a QB, and you don't trade out on them unless your hand is forced into it.
Who knows what their new coach will do? Who'd a thought McD would go looking for Matt Cassel?
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:46 PM   #15
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Who knows what their new coach will do? Who'd a thought McD would go looking for Matt Cassel?
Cassel was offered to us first.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:48 PM   #16
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If that happens, I am not sure if I could be a bronco fan anymore. We have way too many needs to bet the house on a rookie QB.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:54 PM   #17
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The owner is cheap? How much is Peppers making? That's a flimsy argument when there is a new bargaining agreement coming that will cap rookie salaries.
The owner is cheap. And Peppers is in Chicago with a fat contract.
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:56 PM   #18
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Draft value board from #1 to #2 is only 400pts on the ESPN board. That is roughly worth the #50 pick. Your scenario of draft value is ridiculous.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ory?id=2410670

There other flavors of this board but it wont tell you much different of an answer.
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:07 PM   #19
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Lol, on what planet would we give up even close to that amount? What if we gave every pick for the next 25 years to move up to take Luck? What happens then?
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:20 PM   #20
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Giving up 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder to move up one spot in the draft? C'mon man.....
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:26 PM   #21
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Still.... I fail to see where Luck has even stated he is going pro. I swear ESPN sucks as bad as some of the posters here.

Someone has more time on their hands than the village wino.
Indeed, you don't think he's whispered these sweet nothings into Elway's ears already on one of their nightly moonlight walks for who knows how long? Tender moments aside, he'd be an idiot to stay at this point since he's going to 1) probably lose his head coach next year; and 2) will never have his NFL value any higher than it is at this moment. He's risking injury and has nothing to gain by staying. Of course there's a chance he's some kind of crazy competitive freak like Tebow and wants to come back for a national championship run but if so he'd probably have said so by no wouldn't he?
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:36 PM   #22
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People forget what Al Davis offered for Elway, 3 #1's and 3 #2's was the offer if memory serves, or something quite close to that. We benefited not from our offer, but from the fact that Edgar Kaiser knew the Colts moronic owner Robert Irsay outside of the NFL circles. Irsay hated Al Davis and refused to trade him to the Raiders, and he got his rocks off by sending Elway to Kaiser so he could torment the Raiders for the rest of his career. Given the crazy moves we've seen fromm this front office in the last two years, and the fact that Bowlen approved every one of these moves...is it any wonder I might suspect Bowlen would listen to what...JOHN ELWAY has to say? If Elway told him this kid was worth the bounty Davis offered for him to Kaiser or even half that much...Bowlen would jump on a cactus plant and do the Twist if it meant bringing in a guy he imagined might finally rescue this franchise like the Duke did. On the other hand, he's a greedy dude like any other NFL owner, and his finances are somewhat suspect at the moment so he might like to hang onto some of that Tebow jersey money for a rainy day. In the end the fact that Harbaugh is supposedly the new coach...well we're allowed to draw our own conclusions here I think but it's pretty damn coincidental, not to mention convenient that there's this straight line from Luck to Harbaugh to Elway, who just now happens to appear as an untitled front office suit at the same time coaching negotiations would take place and this kid needs to make a decision about his draft status. Yes I'm a conspiracy theorist, absolutely why not? None of this **** makes any sense if you think it all happens by accident, right?

**Edit: It appears it was 3 #1's and 2 #2's if this is correct:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=74707

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Old 01-02-2011, 03:48 PM   #23
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People forget what Al Davis offered for Elway, 3 #1's and 3 #2's was the offer if memory serves, or something quite close to that. We benefited not from our offer, but from the fact that Edgar Kaiser knew the Colts moronic owner Robert Irsay outside of the NFL circles. Irsay hated Al Davis and refused to trade him to the Raiders, and he got his rocks off by sending Elway to Kaiser so he could torment the Raiders for the rest of his career. Given the crazy moves we've seen fromm this front office in the last two years, and the fact that Bowlen approved every one of these moves...is it any wonder I might suspect Bowlen would listen to what...JOHN ELWAY has to say? If Elway told him this kid was worth the bounty Davis offered for him to Kaiser or even half that much...Bowlen would jump on a cactus plant and do the Twist if it meant bringing in a guy he imagined might finally rescue this franchise like the Duke did. On the other hand, he's a greedy dude like any other NFL owner, and his finances are somewhat suspect at the moment so he might like to hang onto some of that Tebow jersey money for a rainy day. In the end the fact that Harbaugh is supposedly the new coach...well we're allowed to draw our own conclusions here I think but it's pretty damn coincidental, not to mention convenient that there's this straight line from Luck to Harbaugh to Elway, who just now happens to appear as an untitled front office suit at the same time coaching negotiations would take place and this kid needs to make a decision about his draft status. Yes I'm a conspiracy theorist, absolutely why not? None of this **** makes any sense if you think it all happens by accident, right?

**Edit: It appears it was 3 #1's and 2 #2's if this is correct:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=74707
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:55 PM   #24
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I'm not sure I'd want Luck for Tebow straight up at this point...
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Old 01-02-2011, 04:24 PM   #25
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I doubt Tebow busts out but if he eventually does Barkley will be twice the pro that Luck will.

All you QB junkies were ball washing Locker last year but I told you that Luck and Barkley were better.

GTFO with this Luck talk. Give Timmy his shot and if it goes straight to hell Denver will be in position to take Bark-O next year who will prove to be the best QB to come out of the Pac-10 in over a decade.

Barkley > Luck > Locker
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