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Old 12-30-2010, 08:25 PM   #1
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The sad reality is that Tebow is graded differently simply because he is Tebow. With no one establishing a bar, it allows the pundits to redefine success to whatever their particular persuasion is on the Tebow question.

So let's go with the sucess metrics being brandied about for Bradford.

So here is a article evaluating Bradford:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40841653/ns/sports-nfl/

Player Year Yards TDs INTs Rating Wins
Dan Marino 1983 2,210 20 6 96.0 7
Ben Roethlisberger 2004 2,621 17 11 98.1 13
Vince Young 2006 2,199 12 13 66.7 8
Matt Ryan 2008 3,440 16 11 87.7 11
Joe Flacco 2008 2,971 14 12 80.3 11
Mark Sanchez 2009 2,444 12 20 63.0 8
Sam Bradford 2010 3,357 18 14 78.0 7

His conclusion is that Bradford is a better qB then Sanchez or Young rookie year, but no where near Rapesburger and Marino's rookie years.

Of course, when you factor in Tebow, with a 100 passer rating, this chart looks a bit different. Obviously that number doesn't make a lot of sense yet to look at yardage, but Tebow's passing performance was actually pretty consistent with both Oakland - great defense, and Houston - awful defense.

The article also looked at DYAR - which is a football outsiders statistic that tries to adjust the total number of yards for the opponents who they face. Now, obviously Tebow is at a disadvantage only having two games under his belt. DVOA - which looks more like a average shows Tebow solidly in the second tier of quarterbacks - after Brady, Rodgers and Rivers - and light years ahead of the other quarterbacks.

I'm curious to see Tebow next week. I still think he is due a two pick game. But anyone who thinks that Tebow isn't outperforming the other rooks at the first two games of his season is smoking something.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:32 PM   #2
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You do realize that 99.99% of the Mane likes Tebow right?

Go post this on a Rams board, otherwise, you're preaching to the choir.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:39 PM   #3
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Don't utilize statistics for two games when you're comparing to players that played the whole year. Statistically speaking, not much can be made out of two games like this, but who cares? If you know the game and know what you're looking at, watching this kid it becomes very obvious that he's got elite physical talent to go with those amazing intangibles. He's going to be greatness, and I could care less what all these media morons tihnk anyway.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:46 PM   #4
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The whole deal is out of wack because you don't know how Bradford would do as a rookie with the Steelers and Big Ben with the last place Rams.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:24 PM   #5
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The answer to the thread title is Tebow, God Bless.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:41 PM   #6
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I should have phrased this more carefully. What statistical results do you want to see to validate the "it" factor that Tebow has in spades. Are there players who have "it" but can't perform? We know that the other way is true.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:44 PM   #7
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Tebow has started 2 games. There is no valid statistical analysis available.

Just enjoy the last game, and see what happens next season.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:47 PM   #8
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To be fair on the Tebow glorification, the one thing that we all have to prepare for is once there is enough tape on him, the game plans will give him nothing that he likes and everything that he doesn't especially since we don't have much else going on in the offense. The next 6-8 games will determine if he has enough of a well rounded game to be competitive every week.

I think the boy is a winner and will be a great QB but I expect darker days before we can see the elway years back again.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:54 PM   #9
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The thing I like about Tebow is that with most rookies, teams are a little caught off guard in their first few games or even first season, but once they have tape on the QB and the offense, they figure out how to stop it. With Tebow, teams will continue to stack the box like Oakland did to stop him, but so far he has shown a good enough arm (not pretty but decent accuracy) to then beat them through the air when given the chance. However, if Tebow is truely our future, I think Lloyd also has to be be priority number one. He makes such a good target for Tebow to just throw it up and let the guy make a play. So far, he is what Moss was to Culpepper. And before anyone gets all bent out of shape, I'm not comparing Tebow to Culpepper. Tebow is a much better student of the game and has far more passion for it. I'm excited to see what he will grow into once he begins to fully understand the entire playbook and can make all his reads. However, I remain a little skeptical and wouldn't be furious if Luck fell to us and we took him.

Awesome drunk stream of conscience, hey?

Last edited by bowtown; 12-30-2010 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:44 PM   #10
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Right now:

Bradford is a Quarterback

Tebow is a Football Player

When you look at the two...they are day and night. This recalls that ESPN the Magazine cover where they had these two guys on the cover before they played in the National Championship.

Bradford is far more refined. Hhe's a natural passer who's extremely fluid in the pocket and when he throws the ball...it gets out quick with just a slight snap of his wrist. And, he'd extremely accurate...we're talking a future 70% completion percentage type of guy. This is what everyone is gushing over. That's what you typically want in a QB.

Tebow, well he isn't pretty in the pocket and he drops the ball to his hip before bringing it up to his ear to throw it. Which...takes time. Where there is no competition for Tebow is when it comes to leadership, desire and competetiveness. He's also very mobile...and once this team learns how to roll hm out and builds an offense around him...he'll be extremely dangerous.

So, I think most analysts/football fans would have to say. Bradford is a "Can't miss" talent. Tebow, well...it's going to take at least one full season before the verdict can be read.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamrob View Post
Right now:

Bradford is a Quarterback

Tebow is a Football Player

When you look at the two...they are day and night. This recalls that ESPN the Magazine cover where they had these two guys on the cover before they played in the National Championship.

Bradford is far more refined. Hhe's a natural passer who's extremely fluid in the pocket and when he throws the ball...it gets out quick with just a slight snap of his wrist. And, he'd extremely accurate...we're talking a future 70% completion percentage type of guy. This is what everyone is gushing over. That's what you typically want in a QB.

Tebow, well he isn't pretty in the pocket and he drops the ball to his hip before bringing it up to his ear to throw it. Which...takes time. Where there is no competition for Tebow is when it comes to leadership, desire and competetiveness. He's also very mobile...and once this team learns how to roll hm out and builds an offense around him...he'll be extremely dangerous.

So, I think most analysts/football fans would have to say. Bradford is a "Can't miss" talent. Tebow, well...it's going to take at least one full season before the verdict can be read.
That's what scares me, what if we give him another year and he is a flop, and Luck was right in our grasp? I'm not sure if I can justify rolling the dice on something that could be a winner vs. something that is about as close to a sure thing as you can get. Then again, I'm the guy that just made a post about how I didn't care about our QB and just want ride a dominant defense, so what the hell do I know? I just hope Carolina takes Luck first overall so I don't ever have to pull my hair out about what could have been.
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtown View Post
That's what scares me, what if we give him another year and he is a flop, and Luck was right in our grasp? I'm not sure if I can justify rolling the dice on something that could be a winner vs. something that is about as close to a sure thing as you can get. Then again, I'm the guy that just made a post about how I didn't care about our QB and just want ride a dominant defense, so what the hell do I know? I just hope Carolina takes Luck first overall so I don't ever have to pull my hair out about what could have been.
Well, here's where I'm at:

If Tebow plays lights out against the Chargers and we win the game. I don't think we should even consider drafting Luck...Tebow's our guy.

If Tebow struggles immensely against the Chargers and looks real bad...well, then, if we somehow find a way to draft Luck...I won't cry about it.

But, if Tebow plays great in his last oppurtunity and shows further improvement and then we draft Luck or any other QB...well, that will piss me off.

Carolina...should draft Luck...He's the next Bradford, Next Ryan etc. And, he's more atheletic then those guys.

I'm hoping Tebow looks good Sunday...or at least shows us he has what it takes...and that we can focus on drafting defensive talent!!
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamrob View Post
Well, here's where I'm at:

If Tebow plays lights out against the Chargers and we win the game. I don't think we should even consider drafting Luck...Tebow's our guy.

If Tebow struggles immensely against the Chargers and looks real bad...well, then, if we somehow find a way to draft Luck...I won't cry about it.

But, if Tebow plays great in his last oppurtunity and shows further improvement and then we draft Luck or any other QB...well, that will piss me off.

Carolina...should draft Luck...He's the next Bradford, Next Ryan etc. And, he's more atheletic then those guys.

I'm hoping Tebow looks good Sunday...or at least shows us he has what it takes...and that we can focus on drafting defensive talent!!
Can't argue with that.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:04 AM   #14
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I honestly do not see why everyone is calling Luck a sure thing. I live in Oregon, and exclusively watch the Pac 10 and really don't understand. Is he a great QB? Of course, but it's not like he's in a league of his own. I wouldn't put him any higher than Bradford, Ryan, Flacco, Rodgers, or anyone else coming out of college. Not to mention this is very speculative, as I imagine Luck will not be declaring, for Championship, and education's sake.
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Old 12-31-2010, 01:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtown View Post
That's what scares me, what if we give him another year and he is a flop, and Luck was right in our grasp? I'm not sure if I can justify rolling the dice on something that could be a winner vs. something that is about as close to a sure thing as you can get. Then again, I'm the guy that just made a post about how I didn't care about our QB and just want ride a dominant defense, so what the hell do I know? I just hope Carolina takes Luck first overall so I don't ever have to pull my hair out about what could have been.


The answer is tear all of your hair out then you don't ever have to worry about it again, I Did.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prunch View Post
To be fair on the Tebow glorification, the one thing that we all have to prepare for is once there is enough tape on him, the game plans will give him nothing that he likes and everything that he doesn't especially since we don't have much else going on in the offense. The next 6-8 games will determine if he has enough of a well rounded game to be competitive every week.
The general trend in the NFL re: Quarterbacks doesn't follow that. Performance tends to be along a increasing, not a decreasing line.

Unless you are stating that Tebow can't follow that curve, and is just a gimmick player.
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Old 12-31-2010, 05:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtown View Post
That's what scares me, what if we give him another year and he is a flop, and Luck was right in our grasp? I'm not sure if I can justify rolling the dice on something that could be a winner vs. something that is about as close to a sure thing as you can get. Then again, I'm the guy that just made a post about how I didn't care about our QB and just want ride a dominant defense, so what the hell do I know? I just hope Carolina takes Luck first overall so I don't ever have to pull my hair out about what could have been.
Luck is no sure thing. I've already offered MVP a chance to place a wager that Tebow will have better stats then Luck next year. Luck has a single year of performing at a elite level under his belt. Tebow had four before coming to the NFL. WE have no idea how he handles injury, no idea what kind of leader he is when the chips are down.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:16 AM   #18
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The most freakish thing about Tebow's two games is the "no coach" circumstance. This could not be a worse situation to step into. This whole year, the installed gameplans were for Orton. Tebow got almost no reps. And Josh McD was the OC and play caller.

It's really odd -- almost like it's so chaotic that Tebow is exactly the kind of player to thrive under those conditions. Tebow is Luke Skywalker, and he's followed dead Obi-wan's suggestion to turn off his visor and use the Force.
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