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Old 12-29-2010, 09:46 PM   #1
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Default article on eating and saturated fats

http://www.menshealth.com/health/saturated-fat

very interesting article for those who are remotely interested in dieting, nutrition, lifting, or just eating in general. based a lot on the book "good calories bad calories" which im reading now, and is an amazing book. follows the entire timeline with accounts of everything that lead up to the american public being fed the information they are given about dieting, and why its wrong.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:10 PM   #2
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We had a diabetes expert come talk to our class and talk about diabetes treatment tell us this. We were all amazed when he told us that there is no correlation between Saturated fats and Heart Disease. He was very strongly advocating the Mediterranean diet.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:22 PM   #3
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We had a diabetes expert come talk to our class and talk about diabetes treatment tell us this. We were all amazed when he told us that there is no correlation between Saturated fats and Heart Disease. He was very strongly advocating the Mediterranean diet.
the biggest thing that leads to fat people is high glycemic index carbs. they cause your body to start storing them as fat. eat what you want, but keep low GI carbs and calorie restriction, youll lose weight (given that your calorie restriction isnt so much as to cause your metabolism to plummet)

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Old 12-29-2010, 10:27 PM   #4
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Not only weight, but Blood pressure, cholesterol, and Insulin resistance will all go down as well.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:38 PM   #5
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Read about the history of Crisco and Coconut oil, you'll find that the whole saturated fat thing is based off of a single four decade old study. Crisco slammed coconut oil to take over the business and got the FDA and others to make them main stream. Also, the relationship of alzheimer's disease and the decreased usage of coconut oil is amazing. Read this article:

http://www.anh-usa.org/coconut-oil-a...0%99s-disease/

Half of the foods we eat are simply allowed because they have the money to pay off the FDA and advertise enough to convince us. No one is making a fortune off of natural oils, not the drug companies, nor food companies.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:06 PM   #6
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I have a hard time taking anything from Men's Health seriously.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:17 PM   #7
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I've read Good Calories/Bad Calories (and for the most part I buy into what it has to say), but to say that there is no established link between saturated fats and heart disease is a bit premature.

I assume that your referencing a recent study by Dr. Eckel (from UCD). According to the nutrionist I've been working with (a colleague of Dr. Eckel's), that while the survey study did fail to find a conclusive link between saturated fats and heart disease. However, that's largely because the existing studies have largely not controlled for carbohydrates. They are beginning to think that some combination of dietary patterns involve high carbohydrate (which wreaks havoc on insulin levels) and saturated fat intake (which raises LDL) likely does cause a big increase in heart disease risk.

So it would be fair to say that the emphasis on eliminating saturated fats is likely incorrect, jumping to the opposite conclusion would be incorrect as well. That's the conclusion that the author of Good Calories/Bad Calories reached, and it's supported by current science. My nutritionist is currently recommending something that looks like the South Beach diet. Whole grains, lower carbohydrates (but not the elimination of them), vegetables, and lean meats (chicken and fish play a prominent role).

I'm currently attempting to put on muscle, and they have me eating red-meat post workout and that's about it. I'm eating a south-beach(ish) diet, but taking in a LOT of calories (5200-6000 on workout days, 4000 otherwise). I've honestly never felt better than I do eating this way.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:43 PM   #8
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I've read Good Calories/Bad Calories (and for the most part I buy into what it has to say), but to say that there is no established link between saturated fats and heart disease is a bit premature.

I assume that your referencing a recent study by Dr. Eckel (from UCD). According to the nutrionist I've been working with (a colleague of Dr. Eckel's), that while the survey study did fail to find a conclusive link between saturated fats and heart disease. However, that's largely because the existing studies have largely not controlled for carbohydrates. They are beginning to think that some combination of dietary patterns involve high carbohydrate (which wreaks havoc on insulin levels) and saturated fat intake (which raises LDL) likely does cause a big increase in heart disease risk.

So it would be fair to say that the emphasis on eliminating saturated fats is likely incorrect, jumping to the opposite conclusion would be incorrect as well. That's the conclusion that the author of Good Calories/Bad Calories reached, and it's supported by current science. My nutritionist is currently recommending something that looks like the South Beach diet. Whole grains, lower carbohydrates (but not the elimination of them), vegetables, and lean meats (chicken and fish play a prominent role).

I'm currently attempting to put on muscle, and they have me eating red-meat post workout and that's about it. I'm eating a south-beach(ish) diet, but taking in a LOT of calories (5200-6000 on workout days, 4000 otherwise). I've honestly never felt better than I do eating this way.
Saying that there is no link would be premature, but saying that there is none established isn't (not really trying to disagree with you but I do believe there is a difference in these statements). For how many years have we believed that Saturated fats were the key to heart disease where we really had no basis for that belief (other than theory). You're right though, that doesn't mean that we should go out and eat lard for breakfast. I believe that anything in excess is unhealthy, therefore moderation is usually a good rule.

Last edited by sgbfan; 12-29-2010 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:06 AM   #9
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Ya.. I'm just making the point that whether or not saturated fats raise LDL is not really in question. The studies continue to show a definite correlation between LDL and heart disease. What's changed is that it was previously thought that LDL on it's own significantly raised heart disease risk. That's doesn't appear to be true. It appears that it's LDL AND some other factors that conspire together to raise your risk.

So LDL is still "bad", just probably not nearly as "bad" as it was made out to be. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

In the end I think we both agree with each other 100%. Eat a lot of whole foods (vegetables, whole-grains, unprocessed meats, etc...) and watch your calories. Oh and simple sugars are the devil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just do it in moderation.

Simple really
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:38 AM   #10
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Ya.. I'm just making the point that whether or not saturated fats raise LDL is not really in question. The studies continue to show a definite correlation between LDL and heart disease. What's changed is that it was previously thought that LDL on it's own significantly raised heart disease risk. That's doesn't appear to be true. It appears that it's LDL AND some other factors that conspire together to raise your risk.

So LDL is still "bad", just probably not nearly as "bad" as it was made out to be. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

In the end I think we both agree with each other 100%. Eat a lot of whole foods (vegetables, whole-grains, unprocessed meats, etc...) and watch your calories. Oh and simple sugars are the devil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just do it in moderation.

Simple really
Yeah. We'll have to wait and see what the studies show. The one thing that is clear at this point is that refined sugars aren't good, and we should limit them. Also that exercise is good. If people could do those two things and add fruits and veggies to their diets... They would lower their risks for a lot of problems that could come up.
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:44 AM   #11
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the biggest thing that leads to fat people is high glycemic index carbs. they cause your body to start storing them as fat. eat what you want, but keep low GI carbs and calorie restriction, youll lose weight (given that your calorie restriction isnt so much as to cause your metabolism to plummet)
Tsiguy I'm about to up my calories and put on 5-10 pounds at the gym between now and the end of march. Am I going to be doing significant damage to my body by having a high calorie diet for this period of time?

I typically eat between 1000 and 1500 a day (low for Americans but normal for me since I grew up in Asia). I'll be going up to 3400.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:14 AM   #12
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I have a hard time taking anything from Men's Health seriously.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:27 AM   #13
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I have a hard time taking anything from Men's Health seriously.
Yeah it's sort of a health gossip rag, but it has it's moments. It's biggest problem is a lack of consistency. One month they'll tell you to avoid such-and-such food, and show what to eat instead with little graphics. The next month (or sometimes even in the same issue) they'll do an interview with a nutritionist and he'll tell you why the good food they just recommended in another issue is bad.

The best way to read it is a tool box for things that have worked for other people and to try it yourself. If it works, keep doing it.

And by the way, read this article. It is actually very good.

Last edited by Kaylore; 12-30-2010 at 05:30 AM..
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:38 AM   #14
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Yeah it's sort of a health gossip rag, but it has it's moments. It's biggest problem is a lack of consistency. One month they'll tell you to avoid such-and-such food, and show what to eat instead with little graphics. The next month (or sometimes even in the same issue) they'll do an interview with a nutritionist and he'll tell you why the good food they just recommended in another issue is bad.

The best way to read it is a tool box for things that have worked for other people and to try it yourself. If it works, keep doing it.

And by the way, read this article. It is actually very good.
Several years ago, I read an article where they called Pizza Hut's Supreme Pan Pizza one of the healthiest foods you can eat.

In their defense, I'm sure they covered all the content on the subject a long time ago and have just been trying to fill pages for decades now.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:07 AM   #15
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Thanks the for article. I've been having a hard time getting into a good diet routine. Some days I eat very healthy, other days I eat like crap. I'm supposed to have a very specialized diet because of my kidney disease, but sometimes it is really hard to follow through because a lot of the foods I am supposed to avoid (red meats, anything with sodium, etc.) are stuff that I was born and raised with and very typical for someone from a German-Russian family.

I went to a health food store the other day, and one of the diet specialists there recommended that 3/4 of my food intake be from raw foods. That might be pretty tough to accomplish. With a strong mindset, I think I will be OK. If you got any tips, TSI I would be appreciative.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:45 AM   #16
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Tsiguy I'm about to up my calories and put on 5-10 pounds at the gym between now and the end of march. Am I going to be doing significant damage to my body by having a high calorie diet for this period of time?

I typically eat between 1000 and 1500 a day (low for Americans but normal for me since I grew up in Asia). I'll be going up to 3400.
youll be fine

only damage youll do is hopefully putting on all the muscle you will get from lifting, right? make sure to work legs if you actually want to put on 10lbs of muscle, and i dont mean leg press of smith machine squats! my bigger advice here is make sure you are upping protein sufficiently, and make sure you have a solid workout program. if you need help with the latter, let me know.

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Old 12-30-2010, 06:48 AM   #17
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Thanks the for article. I've been having a hard time getting into a good diet routine. Some days I eat very healthy, other days I eat like crap. I'm supposed to have a very specialized diet because of my kidney disease, but sometimes it is really hard to follow through because a lot of the foods I am supposed to avoid (red meats, anything with sodium, etc.) are stuff that I was born and raised with and very typical for someone from a German-Russian family.

I went to a health food store the other day, and one of the diet specialists there recommended that 3/4 of my food intake be from raw foods. That might be pretty tough to accomplish. With a strong mindset, I think I will be OK. If you got any tips, TSI I would be appreciative.
diets arent exactly my field, but i know in general kidney diseases are based on low protein diets, which is hard for a lot of people to do as you said. i would talk to your dr and find a true limit of what you can and cant eat and build a diet plan based on that. write down 8 meals that you can make and would be happy to eat all the time and take those to the store and buy ingredients, but it completely depends on how much protein you are allowed and what the doctor thinks, i wouldnt necessarily take advice from the diet specialist at the store, that much raw food (if hes talking about vegan stuff) might give you a severe cut in calories.
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:51 AM   #18
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Several years ago, I read an article where they called Pizza Hut's Supreme Pan Pizza one of the healthiest foods you can eat.

In their defense, I'm sure they covered all the content on the subject a long time ago and have just been trying to fill pages for decades now.
See also: Cosmo on sex.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:05 AM   #19
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Ya.. I'm just making the point that whether or not saturated fats raise LDL is not really in question. The studies continue to show a definite correlation between LDL and heart disease. What's changed is that it was previously thought that LDL on it's own significantly raised heart disease risk. That's doesn't appear to be true. It appears that it's LDL AND some other factors that conspire together to raise your risk.

So LDL is still "bad", just probably not nearly as "bad" as it was made out to be. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

In the end I think we both agree with each other 100%. Eat a lot of whole foods (vegetables, whole-grains, unprocessed meats, etc...) and watch your calories. Oh and simple sugars are the devil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just do it in moderation.

Simple really
Its not LDL per se but the particle size of LDL molecules that is of prime importance. People with very small dense LDL particle size are definitely at increased risk for CVD. But people with larger foamy LDL particle size are highly protected against CVD.

Thus, indiscriminately lowering total cholesterol and LDL doesnt always lead to reduced risk. That is borne out by the fact that over 50% of the people who drop dead from an MI have perfectly normal/'optimum' Total Cholesterol/LDL levels..!!

When 50% of the sample DIE following a given theory, there is something terribly wrong with that theory and obviously there are some major insights missing! As is the ass-backward case of how CVD is managed in the current allopathic model with it gross and irresponsible overuse of statins.

The indescirminate overuse of statins may well have condemned as many or more people with healthy protective levels of lighter density LDL particle size to an early grave as it has helped some with higher density smaller LDL particles size.

Recently an new blood test is available developed in Berkeley and in Europe using a very high speed centrifuge that can accurately separate out the very small high density LDL particles from the lighter and larger more protective LDL particles and provide a lot better insight into how to pro-actively manage your heart disease risk and learn who should definitely NOT take statins as well. Very few people really need a statin. Those with a genetic true hypercholesterolemia with total levels over 300 inspite of diet, supplements and excercise are good candidates but that's about it.

If Biig Pharma had its way everyone from age25 on would be on a statin with a total Cholesterol target of 130 or so! Criminally irresponsible.

Your entire steroid hormone cascade begins with Cholesterol as its prime essential building block. You knock that down below 170 of with statins and then brag about the low number to your poor trade off is, but the VERY poor trade off is at such low Cholesterol levels you are starting to impair broad-spectrum hormone synthesis and before long you with have likely develop limp dick syndrome and depression as well as early onset memory problems and even dementia.

Also, the ratio of Triglycerides to HDL is a more useful marker for CVD than the standard HDL/LDL ratio. Keeping your Hs-CRP (inflammation marker) and Homocysteine low (below 8 for sure and better around 5 to 6) and lower Apo-A levels are very good and important steps to take as well.

Last edited by Hulamau; 12-30-2010 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:15 AM   #20
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hulamau, that is one thing that is covered in the book good cal bad cal, is how yes there is no evidence linking it for most of the population, but even if a small % of the population can be helped by it (which is against the true hopes of epidemiological health) then it is worth implementing, which was one of the justifications of going public with the "fat is bad" program.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:18 AM   #21
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See also: Cosmo on sex.
Rep! Girls reading that never ceases to amaze me. "Want to please your man?" Try an enthusiastic BJ and being downright filthy in bed. Boom. One sentence just covered every man's carnal desires.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:21 AM   #22
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Rep! Girls reading that never ceases to amaze me. "Want to please your man?" Try an enthusiastic BJ and being downright filthy in bed. Boom. One sentence just covered every man's carnal desires.
Also, make him a sammich and stop talking so much.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:22 AM   #23
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Ya.. I'm just making the point that whether or not saturated fats raise LDL is not really in question. The studies continue to show a definite correlation between LDL and heart disease. What's changed is that it was previously thought that LDL on it's own significantly raised heart disease risk. That's doesn't appear to be true. It appears that it's LDL AND some other factors that conspire together to raise your risk.

So LDL is still "bad", just probably not nearly as "bad" as it was made out to be. That's the only point I'm trying to make.

In the end I think we both agree with each other 100%. Eat a lot of whole foods (vegetables, whole-grains, unprocessed meats, etc...) and watch your calories. Oh and simple sugars are the devil. That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them, just do it in moderation.

Simple really
Good diet advice all around.. but look at my post above for he likely missing link in the LDL puzzle (LDL particle size).

Also, cook as often as possible with extra virgin organic coconut oil. You can use it at all temperatures and there is a version with all the benefits of EV-Coconut Oil that has the coconut taste removed too for those dishes you'd rather not have a very mild coconut flavor infused in it. Actually the coconut flavor makes most things taste great and the Medium ChainTriglycerides are one of the healthiest fats you can eat!

I eat two to three tablespoons a day and its like a real treat and it dramatically improved my Tryglycerides from 130 to 65 and raised my HDL significantly from 55 to 85 and I'm an old fart.

Make sure it is extra-virgin and certified organic. Preferrably from young Thai, Indonesian or Phillipino coconut stock. You can get this at most health food stores now including Whole Foods. Sample severa brands and my favorite is 'Artisana' Organic Raw Extra Virgin Coconut Oil. Great stuff and one of the better things you can do for your health.

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Old 12-30-2010, 07:29 AM   #24
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I won't eat anything unless it's been marinated in bacon grease.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:34 AM   #25
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Also, make him a sammich and stop talking so much.
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