We need to keep the offense intact - The Orange Mane

IHaveALight · 12-27-2010, 10:29 PM

Call me crazy but...
I think this team needs to hire a defensive minded head coach such as Rivera or Frazier and keep the offensive coaching staff in place. Yes including McCoy and Ben McDaniels.
Why?
1. Keep Tebow in the same system to speed up his development (won't have to learn a new system).
2. Keep the McD offense, without having to employ the McDick.
3. Judging the Houston game, Tebow will flourish in the McD offense.
4. Most of the players are intact. If we change offensive schemes we will have to rebuild the offense (such as getting smaller o-line for Kubiak). And clearly all our resources need to go to the defense.

So what say you, genius or insanity?

BroncoDoug · 12-27-2010, 10:32 PM

if you wanted to keep the McD offense why not just keep McD, he can run it better then anyone out there

IHaveALight · 12-27-2010, 10:39 PM

Well obviously McDaniels wasn't successful here. That doesn't mean his system can't be.

footstepsfrom#27 · 12-27-2010, 10:40 PM

So you want to hire a new coach and force McD's assistants on him? Great...I'm sure every hot coaching prospect will gravitate to that like moths to a light.

IHaveALight · 12-27-2010, 10:42 PM

I'm pretty sure most new head coaches keep some of the old coaches on staff.

footstepsfrom#27 · 12-27-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHaveALight

I'm pretty sure most new head coaches keep some of the old coaches on staff.

That would be their option, not something a smart GM or owner would force on them. Of course stupid GM/Owners might do that...like Jerry Jones did with Phillips. It's a bad idea.

IHaveALight · 12-27-2010, 10:53 PM

Forcing it on them might not be the right thing to do.
But is it not possible to find a coach that likes the idea?

tsiguy96 · 12-27-2010, 10:55 PM

there are many teams and coordinators that run a similar offense to this. getting a defensive HC would give a decent chance of them hiring or retaining guys who will run this similar offense and speed up progression for the entire team. not a bad idea, but you cant force it on a coach.

sirhcyennek81 · 12-27-2010, 11:31 PM

I'd prefer it if the offensive players stick around. Coaching staffs...eh.

TheChamp24 · 12-28-2010, 06:00 AM

No, because I want Daniel Graham gone.

Kaylore · 12-28-2010, 06:06 AM

Sure, we can keep the coaching staff...

...if the new GM and coach determine it's prudent.

Missouribronc · 12-28-2010, 06:09 AM

I don't think there's any reason to think the scheme won't change. Every new coach/gm has players that they will bring in and others that they will cut.

The new coach will pay some guard, or defensive tackle, or long snapper a little more than he's worth because he's comfortable with that player, or likes his leadership, or whatever it may be. (Fans will scream bloody murder, but it happens with every coach).

McDaniels' scheme is similar to a lot of Parcell's-tree offensive coordinators, probably a mish-mash of all of them put together, really, but I don't see many of the candidates being mentioned by anyone who runs that type of offense, and not many of them are out of jobs right now, either (except for McDaniels). Most run different offenses, and most of them mentioned by Paige this morning are strictly West Coast system guys.

Tebow, Moreno, Clady, Lloyd, Decker and Thomas should stay. Past that, I don't think any GM wouldn't look to see if he could find a better player. (Although, I would imagine Beadles and Walton will probably stay and maybe even Harris.)

elsid13 · 12-28-2010, 06:15 AM

The offense is going change and so is the defense. What Denver needs is some stability in the systems so they can start finding and drafting players that work well within those type offense/defense

strafen · 12-28-2010, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IHaveALight

Well obviously McDaniels wasn't successful here. That doesn't mean his system can't be.

Who's going to run somebody else's system?
I think the "New England" system is its own deal. I wouldn't say unique, but it's pretty much tailored to be effective with the right personnel.

We need a running game. The NE way seems to handicap our ability to effectively run the ball...

Steve Prefontaine · 12-28-2010, 06:29 AM

I thought this was going to be a bump from when Shanny got fired.

BroncosSR · 12-28-2010, 06:35 AM

I heard this before...

lostknight · 12-28-2010, 06:57 AM

We have a quarterback who could conceivably pull off a trifecta. Tebow can throw screens (and did so to near perfection on Sunday), be very comfortable in the bootleg, and can do the E-P style spread. We are going to need a OC that is very creative to take advantage of all three. I don't want a return to a Shanny style WCO, simply because I think the E-P system creates much better mismatches for receivers down the field.

I do want to return to a ZBS scheme up on the o-line, because it outs us in competition with a smaller number of teams for premium talent, and because Tebow's mobility takes away the largest drawbacks to ZBS.

It's hard to say with a straight face that the offense is working. It's a hell of a lot easier to say that, then to say that the defense is working. So I would like to see a Rivera or a Nolan, and then decide between say McCoy (who redeemed himself this last game) or maybe Kubes as a OC.

Interestingly enough, Klis seems to think in this morning's paper that we have a shot of lading Wade as a DC. Nolan as HC, Wade as DC, Colt or Kubes as OC would be a pretty potent setup.

IHaveALight · 12-28-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Sure, we can keep the coaching staff...

...if the new GM and coach determine it's prudent.

For starters, we need to hire a defensive minded head coach. Then it's possible.

Hamrob · 12-28-2010, 10:11 AM

Tebow can learn a new offense just fine. He needs a QB guru to bring him along at the pace that he can handle. I'm all for changing the offense to better suit Tim Tebow. I would love to see old Jake plummer naked boot rollout where he has like 10 seconds to look down field and Lloyd is running the post from the opposite side of the field. I think Tebow would absolutely tear that offense up. Jake was able to look down field, dump it off to a back or run it. That's a good place to be for a rookie to 1st year starting QB who happens to be good on his feet. For all those who think that Tebow isn't that mobile of a QB...he ran a 4.58 folks...

Drek · 12-28-2010, 10:18 AM

Wow. Having Timmy and Lloyd carry this team to a win over the Texans sure buys a lot of good will.

Tebow can learn a new system. The biggest question most objective critics had on him was if he could read NFL defenses and handle deeper progressions. He's shown in the last two weeks the ability to do that at this level. He'll learn a new system's terminology as needed.

We should be pursuing the single best coach to bring Tebow along, not the most familiar.

ayjackson · 12-28-2010, 10:21 AM

I don't want to hire a head coach because he's a good coordinator - the two jobs have little to do with each other. Wade would be a good DC, but he's a lost cause as a head coach. You're looking for different traits in a HC than you are in an OC or DC.

As for a Nolan/Phillips/Kubiak staff - it sounds very expensive. (Though Phillips and Kubiak will be on fat severance, and we may still be paying Nolan.)

Pony Boy · 12-28-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drek

Wow. Having Timmy and Lloyd carry this team to a win over the Texans sure buys a lot of good will.

Tebow can learn a new system. The biggest question most objective critics had on him was if he could read NFL defenses and handle deeper progressions. He's shown in the last two weeks the ability to do that at this level. He'll learn a new system's terminology as needed.

We should be pursuing the single best coach to bring Tebow along, not the most familiar.

Shortest post I've ever seen you make......are you feeling ok?

Pony Boy · 12-28-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoDoug

if you wanted to keep the McD offense why not just keep McD, he can run it better then anyone out there

Humm, maybe because he wanted to run it with Orton.

Likwid Kerruj · 12-28-2010, 10:34 AM

Made more sense 2 years ago, and we all know how that went.

Anything could happen.

Dedhed · 12-28-2010, 10:39 AM

I think we need to put a staff in place that has the ability and desire to design on an offense around Tebow, not try to get Tebow to adapt to their system.

I think that in order for Tebow to reach his potential we need a staff that is willing to push the envelope in terms of what has been done in the NFL up to this point.

Instinct tells me that means going with a new school guy, but I think there are a couple of Old School guys (Gruden in particular) who believe in Tebow enough to go all in with Tebow.

View Poll Results: Keep offensive coaching staff in place?
Hell NO!! Whats wrong with you? - banned for life	11	40.74%
On the fence. I've heard crazier things here - interesting idea	11	40.74%
I like it! Sign me up - great idea	5	18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

12-27-2010, 10:29 PM	#1
IHaveALight the sun is gone Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 1,262 Adopt-a-Bronco: ElvisVonWolfPak	We need to keep the offense intact Call me crazy but... I think this team needs to hire a defensive minded head coach such as Rivera or Frazier and keep the offensive coaching staff in place. Yes including McCoy and Ben McDaniels. Why? 1. Keep Tebow in the same system to speed up his development (won't have to learn a new system). 2. Keep the McD offense, without having to employ the McDick. 3. Judging the Houston game, Tebow will flourish in the McD offense. 4. Most of the players are intact. If we change offensive schemes we will have to rebuild the offense (such as getting smaller o-line for Kubiak). And clearly all our resources need to go to the defense. So what say you, genius or insanity? Last edited by IHaveALight; 12-27-2010 at 10:34 PM..

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12-27-2010, 10:32 PM	#2
BroncoDoug Ring of Famer R.I.P. D-Will and D-Nash Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Moline, IL Posts: 2,767 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	if you wanted to keep the McD offense why not just keep McD, he can run it better then anyone out there

12-27-2010, 10:39 PM	#3
IHaveALight the sun is gone Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 1,262 Adopt-a-Bronco: ElvisVonWolfPak	Well obviously McDaniels wasn't successful here. That doesn't mean his system can't be.

12-27-2010, 10:40 PM	#4
footstepsfrom#27 helmet to helmet hitter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 16,117 Adopt-a-Bronco: Joe Mays	So you want to hire a new coach and force McD's assistants on him? Great...I'm sure every hot coaching prospect will gravitate to that like moths to a light.

12-27-2010, 10:42 PM	#5
IHaveALight the sun is gone Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 1,262 Adopt-a-Bronco: ElvisVonWolfPak	I'm pretty sure most new head coaches keep some of the old coaches on staff.

12-27-2010, 10:53 PM	#7
IHaveALight the sun is gone Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 1,262 Adopt-a-Bronco: ElvisVonWolfPak	Forcing it on them might not be the right thing to do. But is it not possible to find a coach that likes the idea?

12-27-2010, 10:55 PM	#8
tsiguy96 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12,559 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	there are many teams and coordinators that run a similar offense to this. getting a defensive HC would give a decent chance of them hiring or retaining guys who will run this similar offense and speed up progression for the entire team. not a bad idea, but you cant force it on a coach.

12-27-2010, 11:31 PM	#9
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,673 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	I'd prefer it if the offensive players stick around. Coaching staffs...eh.

12-28-2010, 06:00 AM	#10
TheChamp24 DERP DERP DERP The Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Broncos Country Posts: 4,874	No, because I want Daniel Graham gone.

12-28-2010, 06:06 AM	#11
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,037 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	Sure, we can keep the coaching staff... ...if the new GM and coach determine it's prudent.

12-28-2010, 06:09 AM	#12
Missouribronc Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,529 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I don't think there's any reason to think the scheme won't change. Every new coach/gm has players that they will bring in and others that they will cut. The new coach will pay some guard, or defensive tackle, or long snapper a little more than he's worth because he's comfortable with that player, or likes his leadership, or whatever it may be. (Fans will scream bloody murder, but it happens with every coach). McDaniels' scheme is similar to a lot of Parcell's-tree offensive coordinators, probably a mish-mash of all of them put together, really, but I don't see many of the candidates being mentioned by anyone who runs that type of offense, and not many of them are out of jobs right now, either (except for McDaniels). Most run different offenses, and most of them mentioned by Paige this morning are strictly West Coast system guys. Tebow, Moreno, Clady, Lloyd, Decker and Thomas should stay. Past that, I don't think any GM wouldn't look to see if he could find a better player. (Although, I would imagine Beadles and Walton will probably stay and maybe even Harris.)

12-28-2010, 06:15 AM	#13
elsid13 Lost In Space Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DC Posts: 19,081	The offense is going change and so is the defense. What Denver needs is some stability in the systems so they can start finding and drafting players that work well within those type offense/defense

12-28-2010, 06:29 AM	#15
Steve Prefontaine Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,289 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I thought this was going to be a bump from when Shanny got fired.

12-28-2010, 06:35 AM	#16
BroncosSR Pro Bowler Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 662	I heard this before...

12-28-2010, 06:57 AM	#17
lostknight In The Arena ohwaitwtf Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,362 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tim Tebow	We have a quarterback who could conceivably pull off a trifecta. Tebow can throw screens (and did so to near perfection on Sunday), be very comfortable in the bootleg, and can do the E-P style spread. We are going to need a OC that is very creative to take advantage of all three. I don't want a return to a Shanny style WCO, simply because I think the E-P system creates much better mismatches for receivers down the field. I do want to return to a ZBS scheme up on the o-line, because it outs us in competition with a smaller number of teams for premium talent, and because Tebow's mobility takes away the largest drawbacks to ZBS. It's hard to say with a straight face that the offense is working. It's a hell of a lot easier to say that, then to say that the defense is working. So I would like to see a Rivera or a Nolan, and then decide between say McCoy (who redeemed himself this last game) or maybe Kubes as a OC. Interestingly enough, Klis seems to think in this morning's paper that we have a shot of lading Wade as a DC. Nolan as HC, Wade as DC, Colt or Kubes as OC would be a pretty potent setup.

12-28-2010, 10:11 AM	#19
Hamrob All-American! All-American! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DFW Posts: 4,747 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	Tebow can learn a new offense just fine. He needs a QB guru to bring him along at the pace that he can handle. I'm all for changing the offense to better suit Tim Tebow. I would love to see old Jake plummer naked boot rollout where he has like 10 seconds to look down field and Lloyd is running the post from the opposite side of the field. I think Tebow would absolutely tear that offense up. Jake was able to look down field, dump it off to a back or run it. That's a good place to be for a rookie to 1st year starting QB who happens to be good on his feet. For all those who think that Tebow isn't that mobile of a QB...he ran a 4.58 folks...

12-28-2010, 10:18 AM	#20
Drek Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 12,315	Wow. Having Timmy and Lloyd carry this team to a win over the Texans sure buys a lot of good will. Tebow can learn a new system. The biggest question most objective critics had on him was if he could read NFL defenses and handle deeper progressions. He's shown in the last two weeks the ability to do that at this level. He'll learn a new system's terminology as needed. We should be pursuing the single best coach to bring Tebow along, not the most familiar.

12-28-2010, 10:21 AM	#21
ayjackson Pro Bowler Not so new to the forum Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 699 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I don't want to hire a head coach because he's a good coordinator - the two jobs have little to do with each other. Wade would be a good DC, but he's a lost cause as a head coach. You're looking for different traits in a HC than you are in an OC or DC. As for a Nolan/Phillips/Kubiak staff - it sounds very expensive. (Though Phillips and Kubiak will be on fat severance, and we may still be paying Nolan.)

12-28-2010, 10:34 AM	#24
Likwid Kerruj Free agent pickup Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Little Montenegro Posts: 297	Made more sense 2 years ago, and we all know how that went. Anything could happen.

12-28-2010, 10:39 AM	#25
Dedhed Ring of Famer Fare thee well Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 9,706 Adopt-a-Bronco: Elvis	I think we need to put a staff in place that has the ability and desire to design on an offense around Tebow, not try to get Tebow to adapt to their system. I think that in order for Tebow to reach his potential we need a staff that is willing to push the envelope in terms of what has been done in the NFL up to this point. Instinct tells me that means going with a new school guy, but I think there are a couple of Old School guys (Gruden in particular) who believe in Tebow enough to go all in with Tebow.