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Old 12-27-2010, 02:14 PM   #1
enjolras
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Default Well, I'm on board (sorry for the length)

I've gone through a few phases with Tebow. On draft day I openely cheered the Thomas pick largely because I feared that we'd end up with Tebow. A couple of picks later I ripped off my Bronco jersey (and then carefully folded it and gave it to my wife;>) out of disgust. I just didn't see how Tim Tebow could be successful in the NFL.

Through training camp he grew on me. I've always believed in the importance of leadership to a team. I was one of a only a few persistent critics of Jay Cutler on this board during his Bronco tenure. I thought he lacked "it". I thought he was a tease and nothing more. I still believe that.

When I saw Tebow in person for the first time during the preseason, I became hopeful for our future. Even in a preseason game his passion and old-fashioned toughness showed.

I still had doubts. Surely that release is too slow? Surely he's not fast enough to run it effectively in the NFL? Surely his game doesn't translate?

Then the second half happened yesterday. I saw a glimpse into the future of this team. I've now watched that second half three times in its entirety. What I saw was a hybrid offense that played to everything Tebow does well. McCoy, who I absolutely loathed after the Raider game, crafted an offensive response that was beautiful.

Remember all of those screens? Get used to it, that's our future. Tebow has two very strong characteristics that make him nearly impossible to defense. He can throw the ball accurately down the field, particularly over the middle. His unique size also makes him a threat run the ball down the middle. NFL defenses simply aren't constructed to deal with a power running threat from an accurate QB.

These two skills (in addition to his ability to make other throws) are hell for the linebackers. In most schemes those quick screen plays have to be policed by the outside linebackers. Yet those linebackers are being held at the line of scrimmage by Tebows ability to run inside the tackles. Aggressive defenses will respond by moving a hard hitting safety up close to the line of scrimmage, but Tebows ability to beat you deep over the middle makes that problematic. You can bleed to death 5 and 6 yards at a time, or you can surrender the deep ball and die all at once.

It's essentially an every-down wildcat. The wildcat hasn't been terribly effective in the NFL (outside of a few early outliers) because defenses have keyed in on the fact that the running back will never throw the ball. This season teams have responded to the wildcat by stacking the line and denying the run. They're daring teams to throw the ball over the top, and no one is doing it...because someone who can make NFL quality throws AND run inside just don't exist. Well, on every other team besides ours anyways.

That's why those screen passes worked all day. As I watched the game I keyed in on the Texan linebackers. They had adjusted in the first half and had become aggressive in their pursuit to the screen receiver while moving a safety into the middle. That's why Denver came out bombing to start the second half. After that completion to Gaffney, they backed off (in the replay you can see Gaffney just blow by the safety who is staying in to protect the middle of the field). The middle linebacker was held in the middle to deal with Tebow. That left Buckhalter and co. one-on-one with an outside backer. We won that battle most of the time.

McCoy sprinkled in some traditional (and very effective) running and passing, mainly to the sideline on stop-routes. This was designed to continue to push the safeties away from the line of scrimmage. As soon as they saw those safeties back in coverage they brought out the screen. As soon as they saw the safety deep and the middle linebacker cheating to the line they ran Tebow on the draw or off tackle on a designed roll-out.

In that context this years draft really starts to make sense. In this offense you really need more than one deep receiving threat. A healthy Demariyus Thomas gives you that mid-range, big-body target you desperately need. You need strong slot receivers who can get open over the middle to soften up coverage and move the strong safety away from the line. That receiver also needs to be a strong blocker ahead of all of those screen passes. That pretty much describes Decker to a T. You need a power blocking offensive line with an extremely athletic and mobile set of guards who can pull to seal off bootlegs and get ahead of the play on screen passes. Beadles certainly fits that bill (and thankfully so does Kuper).

I think we not only saw our QB of the future yesterday, but our offense of the future as well. Less inside running and more stretching things towards the tackles. Screens will be the staple of the offense along with designed roll-outs designed to give Tebow a run/pass option. We're only missing two things:

* We need our Marshall Faulk, and Moreno is not the answer. Buckhalter actually fits the bill (although I wish he had better hands) but his history suggests he just isn't durable enough.

* We need a safety-valve pass catching tight end. Someone who can run the seam and give another deep-threat option out of a power look would be huge.

Still, this offense has the potential to be so unique that it will be nearly impossible to bottle up for any length of time. It will be an exciting big-play offense that will be a lot of fun to watch for the next decade.

I can't wait. Hell I'm ordering my Tebow jersey now

Last edited by enjolras; 12-27-2010 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:28 PM   #2
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great post!
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:34 PM   #3
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thats called over analyzing, and forgetting the one basic question: can the guy play football. it seems a lot of people get too hung up on specifics and forget that hes got ridiculous intangibles and is a proven winner in every level hes ever played. because his throwing motion doesnt look like dan marinos doesnt mean **** in the grand scheme.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:36 PM   #4
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I agree with the screens. I was saying this last week when it was clear that none of our runningbacks were fast enough to get to the edge against the Raiders defense. We should be running the offense through Tebow and using runningbacks on screens and lateral passes. I personally think a WCO would be a great offense for Tebow, especially in the shotgun formation that Elway had so much success with.

Run the offense through Tebow passing horizontally, and then when the safties start cheating up, you go over the top with a deep play. And if that play is covered, let Tebow scramble and/or make a break for it. His ability to turn a broken play into a huge gain or a touchdown with his legs is going to win a lot of games for us.

...and man if that kind of effort doesn't fire up the team around him, then these guys are soulless and need to find another profession.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by enjolras View Post
I've gone through a few phases with Tebow. On draft day I openely cheered the Thomas pick largely because I feared that we'd end up with Tebow. A couple of picks later I ripped off my Bronco jersey (and then carefully folded it and gave it to my wife;>) out of disgust. I just didn't see how Tim Tebow could be successful in the NFL.

Through training camp he grew on me. I've always believed in the importance of leadership to a team. I was one of a only a few persistent critics of Jay Cutler on this board during his Bronco tenure. I thought he lacked "it". I thought he was a tease and nothing more. I still believe that.

When I saw Tebow in person for the first time during the preseason, I became hopeful for our future. Even in a preseason game his passion and old-fashioned toughness showed.

I still had doubts. Surely that release is too slow? Surely he's not fast enough to run it effectively in the NFL? Surely his game doesn't translate?

Then the second half happened yesterday. I saw a glimpse into the future of this team. I've now watched that second half three times in its entirety. What I saw was a hybrid offense that played to everything Tebow does well. McCoy, who I absolutely loathed after the Raider game, crafted an offensive response that was beautiful.

Remember all of those screens? Get used to it, that's our future. Tebow has two very strong characteristics that make him nearly impossible to defense. He can throw the ball accurately down the field, particularly over the middle. His unique size also makes him a threat run the ball down the middle. NFL defenses simply aren't constructed to deal with a power running threat from an accurate QB.

These two skills (in addition to his ability to make other throws) are hell for the linebackers. In most schemes those quick screen plays have to be policed by the outside linebackers. Yet those linebackers are being held at the line of scrimmage by Tebows ability to run inside the tackles. Aggressive defenses will respond by moving a hard hitting safety up close to the line of scrimmage, but Tebows ability to beat you deep over the middle makes that problematic. You can bleed to death 5 and 6 yards at a time, or you can surrender the deep ball and die all at once.

It's essentially an every-down wildcat. The wildcat hasn't been terribly effective in the NFL (outside of a few early outliers) because defenses have keyed in on the fact that the running back will never throw the ball. This season teams have responded to the wildcat by stacking the line and denying the run. They're daring teams to throw the ball over the top, and no one is doing it...because someone who can make NFL quality throws AND run inside just don't exist. Well, on every other team besides ours anyways.

That's why those screen passes worked all day. As I watched the game I keyed in on the Texan linebackers. They had adjusted in the first half and had become aggressive in their pursuit to the screen receiver while moving a safety into the middle. That's why Denver came out bombing to start the second half. After that completion to Gaffney, they backed off (in the replay you can see Gaffney just blow by the safety who is staying in to protect the middle of the field). The middle linebacker was held in the middle to deal with Tebow. That left Buckhalter and co. one-on-one with an outside backer. We won that battle most of the time.

McCoy sprinkled in some traditional (and very effective) running and passing, mainly to the sideline on stop-routes. This was designed to continue to push the safeties away from the line of scrimmage. As soon as they saw those safeties back in coverage they brought out the screen. As soon as they saw the safety deep and the middle linebacker cheating to the line they ran Tebow on the draw or off tackle on a designed roll-out.

In that context this years draft really starts to make sense. In this offense you really need more than one deep receiving threat. A healthy Demariyus Thomas gives you that mid-range, big-body target you desperately need. You need strong slot receivers who can get open over the middle to soften up coverage and move the strong safety away from the line. That receiver also needs to be a strong blocker ahead of all of those screen passes. That pretty much describes Decker to a T. You need a power blocking offensive line with an extremely athletic and mobile set of guards who can pull to seal off bootlegs and get ahead of the play on screen passes. Beadles certainly fits that bill (and thankfully so does Kuper).

I think we not only saw our QB of the future yesterday, but our offense of the future as well. Less inside running and more stretching things towards the tackles. Screens will be the staple of the offense along with designed roll-outs designed to give Tebow a run/pass option. We're only missing two things:

* We need our Marshall Faulk, and Moreno is not the answer. Buckhalter actually fits the bill (although I wish he had better hands) but his history suggests he just isn't durable enough.

* We need a safety-valve pass catching tight end. Someone who can run the seam and give another deep-threat option out of a power look would be huge.

Still, this offense has the potential to be so unique that it will be nearly impossible to bottle up for any length of time. It will be an exciting big-play offense that will be a lot of fun to watch for the next decade.

I can't wait. Hell I'm ordering my Tebow jersey now
great post....

i will say however, i think the screen passes worked because the houston defense is just awful...but i am hopeful that you're right...
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:39 PM   #6
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great post....

i will say however, i think the screen passes worked because the houston defense is just awful...but i am hopeful that you're right...
one thing vic and gary talked about today is a screen pass is not something anyone can just do. they said "we had a guy here for 16 years who was NOT good at screen passes!" he just threw it too hard, made it hard to catch in stride and keep moving.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:41 PM   #7
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one thing vic and gary talked about today is a screen pass is not something anyone can just do. they said "we had a guy here for 16 years who was NOT good at screen passes!" he just threw it too hard, made it hard to catch in stride and keep moving.
perhaps you're right...
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:47 PM   #8
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I think they will be. In many ways this resembles the offense that Martz ran in St. Louis with a bit less vertical passing. They ran a BOAT load of screens to Faulk when they won their superbowl.
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:51 PM   #9
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I think they will be. In many ways this resembles the offense that Martz ran in St. Louis with a bit less vertical passing. They ran a BOAT load of screens to Faulk when they won their superbowl.
I think Moreno will be a beast with screen passes next year.

waits...
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:55 PM   #10
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I personally think a WCO would be a great offense for Tebow,
I could not disagree more. Tebow is not accurate on the short, quick passes. That's not really where he butters his bread, so to speak. In fact his style of play is a terrible fit for a west coast offense. I'd like to see something similar to what the Steelers or Chargers run, where it's a heavy dose of running and then big shots down the field. Lots of long routs that will stretch the field and free up space. I could see him scrambling around like Big Ben and then chucking it deep or running for extra yardage.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:02 PM   #11
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You had me at......It's essentially an every-down wildcat.

I got a little Boehner-eyed.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:06 PM   #12
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I could not disagree more. Tebow is not accurate on the short, quick passes. That's not really where he butters his bread, so to speak. In fact his style of play is a terrible fit for a west coast offense. I'd like to see something similar to what the Steelers or Chargers run, where it's a heavy dose of running and then big shots down the field. Lots of long routs that will stretch the field and free up space. I could see him scrambling around like Big Ben and then chucking it deep or running for extra yardage.

Hmmm... You may be right. The thought of Tebow throwing a timing pass with any consistency does seem anti-intuitive. This is the part of Tebow that *does* make me nervous.

I do like these short field routes, and getting the playmaker's the ball and letting them get the tough yards. Whoever comes in to OC this team is going to need to find a way to make that happen, I think. Of Tebow can't draw defenders into the short zones with his arm, they're just going to sit on the deep stuff and make life difficult.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:09 PM   #13
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I could not disagree more. Tebow is not accurate on the short, quick passes. That's not really where he butters his bread, so to speak. In fact his style of play is a terrible fit for a west coast offense. I'd like to see something similar to what the Steelers or Chargers run, where it's a heavy dose of running and then big shots down the field. Lots of long routs that will stretch the field and free up space. I could see him scrambling around like Big Ben and then chucking it deep or running for extra yardage.
This is probably spot on, though im not sure if he's accurate on short passes because he hasnt really thrown many. Though in the preseason he did prove he could hit slants to Willis. It'd be nice to see some crossing routes next game, he rarely threw down the middle of the field in the short/intermediate range.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:11 PM   #14
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I could not disagree more. Tebow is not accurate on the short, quick passes. That's not really where he butters his bread, so to speak. In fact his style of play is a terrible fit for a west coast offense. I'd like to see something similar to what the Steelers or Chargers run, where it's a heavy dose of running and then big shots down the field. Lots of long routs that will stretch the field and free up space. I could see him scrambling around like Big Ben and then chucking it deep or running for extra yardage.
Oh but wait till he's scores from the 5 yd line with the "jump Pass" the place will go wild...
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:15 PM   #15
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I like the look on Stoop's face.....WTF was that

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Old 12-27-2010, 03:16 PM   #16
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The Broncos just became one of the most entertaining teams in the league. Its crazy to think that we were so drab and hopeless just two weeks ago.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:16 PM   #17
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I think he just needs to suit up an Orange and Blue (Orange first...) Superman outfit and be done with it.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:16 PM   #18
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This is probably spot on, though im not sure if he's accurate on short passes because he hasnt really thrown many. Though in the preseason he did prove he could hit slants to Willis. It'd be nice to see some crossing routes next game, he rarely threw down the middle of the field in the short/intermediate range.
It's those west coast timing routes that your going to see that release come into play really. All of 3 step drops and slants are going to be that much slower. I think the comparison to the Chargers offense is a really good one actually.

After all, Rivers also has a really slow release.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:18 PM   #19
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He'll never be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but if we can build a strong defense and runnning game around this guy, he can be successful in this league!
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:19 PM   #20
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He'll never be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but if we can build a strong defense and runnning game around this guy, he can be successful in this league!
He'll be Tebow, and that will be more than enough.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:20 PM   #21
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It would be interesting to see Tebow go against the Jets or Packers - teams that can play man and put a spy safety on Tebow. Hard to tell what we have against the Texans' **** secondary.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:21 PM   #22
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He'll never be a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but if we can build a strong defense and runnning game around this guy, he can be successful in this league!
if tahts the case, why use a first on tebow? thats EVERY quarterback in the NFL, if all they have to do is take care of the game their chances of success skyrockets.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:21 PM   #23
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I could not disagree more. Tebow is not accurate on the short, quick passes. That's not really where he butters his bread, so to speak. In fact his style of play is a terrible fit for a west coast offense. I'd like to see something similar to what the Steelers or Chargers run, where it's a heavy dose of running and then big shots down the field. Lots of long routs that will stretch the field and free up space. I could see him scrambling around like Big Ben and then chucking it deep or running for extra yardage.
There's so many options with Tebow. Any OC should be drooling over the opportunity to coach him. What I like is he throws a beautiful deep ball, and the fact he looks to throw deep.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:23 PM   #24
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After all, Rivers also has a really slow release.
I hate the guy, but this is bull-oney.

He's as quick as anyone from decision to passing the ball.

Awkward? Yes. Slow? No.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:27 PM   #25
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I've gone through a few phases with Tebow. On draft day I openely cheered the Thomas pick largely because I feared that we'd end up with Tebow. A couple of picks later I ripped off my Bronco jersey (and then carefully folded it and gave it to my wife;>) out of disgust. I just didn't see how Tim Tebow could be successful in the NFL.

Through training camp he grew on me. I've always believed in the importance of leadership to a team. I was one of a only a few persistent critics of Jay Cutler on this board during his Bronco tenure. I thought he lacked "it". I thought he was a tease and nothing more. I still believe that.

When I saw Tebow in person for the first time during the preseason, I became hopeful for our future. Even in a preseason game his passion and old-fashioned toughness showed.

I still had doubts. Surely that release is too slow? Surely he's not fast enough to run it effectively in the NFL? Surely his game doesn't translate?

Then the second half happened yesterday. I saw a glimpse into the future of this team. I've now watched that second half three times in its entirety. What I saw was a hybrid offense that played to everything Tebow does well. McCoy, who I absolutely loathed after the Raider game, crafted an offensive response that was beautiful.

Remember all of those screens? Get used to it, that's our future. Tebow has two very strong characteristics that make him nearly impossible to defense. He can throw the ball accurately down the field, particularly over the middle. His unique size also makes him a threat run the ball down the middle. NFL defenses simply aren't constructed to deal with a power running threat from an accurate QB.

These two skills (in addition to his ability to make other throws) are hell for the linebackers. In most schemes those quick screen plays have to be policed by the outside linebackers. Yet those linebackers are being held at the line of scrimmage by Tebows ability to run inside the tackles. Aggressive defenses will respond by moving a hard hitting safety up close to the line of scrimmage, but Tebows ability to beat you deep over the middle makes that problematic. You can bleed to death 5 and 6 yards at a time, or you can surrender the deep ball and die all at once.

It's essentially an every-down wildcat. The wildcat hasn't been terribly effective in the NFL (outside of a few early outliers) because defenses have keyed in on the fact that the running back will never throw the ball. This season teams have responded to the wildcat by stacking the line and denying the run. They're daring teams to throw the ball over the top, and no one is doing it...because someone who can make NFL quality throws AND run inside just don't exist. Well, on every other team besides ours anyways.

That's why those screen passes worked all day. As I watched the game I keyed in on the Texan linebackers. They had adjusted in the first half and had become aggressive in their pursuit to the screen receiver while moving a safety into the middle. That's why Denver came out bombing to start the second half. After that completion to Gaffney, they backed off (in the replay you can see Gaffney just blow by the safety who is staying in to protect the middle of the field). The middle linebacker was held in the middle to deal with Tebow. That left Buckhalter and co. one-on-one with an outside backer. We won that battle most of the time.

McCoy sprinkled in some traditional (and very effective) running and passing, mainly to the sideline on stop-routes. This was designed to continue to push the safeties away from the line of scrimmage. As soon as they saw those safeties back in coverage they brought out the screen. As soon as they saw the safety deep and the middle linebacker cheating to the line they ran Tebow on the draw or off tackle on a designed roll-out.

In that context this years draft really starts to make sense. In this offense you really need more than one deep receiving threat. A healthy Demariyus Thomas gives you that mid-range, big-body target you desperately need. You need strong slot receivers who can get open over the middle to soften up coverage and move the strong safety away from the line. That receiver also needs to be a strong blocker ahead of all of those screen passes. That pretty much describes Decker to a T. You need a power blocking offensive line with an extremely athletic and mobile set of guards who can pull to seal off bootlegs and get ahead of the play on screen passes. Beadles certainly fits that bill (and thankfully so does Kuper).

I think we not only saw our QB of the future yesterday, but our offense of the future as well. Less inside running and more stretching things towards the tackles. Screens will be the staple of the offense along with designed roll-outs designed to give Tebow a run/pass option. We're only missing two things:

* We need our Marshall Faulk, and Moreno is not the answer. Buckhalter actually fits the bill (although I wish he had better hands) but his history suggests he just isn't durable enough.

* We need a safety-valve pass catching tight end. Someone who can run the seam and give another deep-threat option out of a power look would be huge.

Still, this offense has the potential to be so unique that it will be nearly impossible to bottle up for any length of time. It will be an exciting big-play offense that will be a lot of fun to watch for the next decade.

I can't wait. Hell I'm ordering my Tebow jersey now
Thats a very nice write up. But regarding this being a glimpse of the future, just understand that its tailored around perceived weaknesses. Its conceivbable that it could look a lot different as Tebow evolves and actually figures things out. Thats what's been amazing. Tebow is just getting started.

I think he would do best in Kubiaks offense with the stretch plays hedging against the bootlegs.
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