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Old 12-01-2010, 12:32 PM   #1
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Default What turns this mess around?

Back to football talk instead of this feel good kombaya.

Ok, so I think all of us can agree we suck this year, but what do you think are the key points to getting this turned around?


A couple of key elements to me are:

1. A competent GM with control over that aspect of the organization (not the head coach with contol). Look at KC's organization right now. It is functioning well. Xanders probably has to go.
2. A competent coach. I go back and forth on firing McDaniels. Part of me says he has some great coaching moments, so if he focused on that could he be a good head coach? Part of me looks at his lack of adjustments and attention to the Defense and says this guy sucks and is an OC. Can't decide. His player acquisitions, drafting etc.. is very suspect and I am not talking about Cutler and Marshal, so at the very least he has to lose those powers to a new GM and if he can't deal with that see ya later.
3. A competent D Cordinator. Again, it is hard to evaluate wink with the injuries and simple overall lack of talent on that side of the ball, but I don't see any cohesive stategy defining characteristic etc... to his defense except suck.
4. Accumulation of talent and a 2 year plan to get there. It seems that all of Xanders/McD's plans/decisions have been made with no particular vision for the future. Why pick up Quinn if you are going after Tebow, why trade a first for Smith, etc... Why change D-Coridnators without a clear vision of what you want. This will only come from a competent leader (GM).
5. Bowlen to make up his freaking mind. Dude seems out of it lately. His statements are all over the place and frankly pretty incoherent at times. Hope it isn't a mental thing with age.


Basically in typing this out what I can say is a competent GM with power and a plan needs to be brought in asap. Without that we are floating in never never land.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:34 PM   #2
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What mess?

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Old 12-01-2010, 12:34 PM   #3
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josh can fix this by winning.....end thread
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:36 PM   #4
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we need some players like James Harrison,and a Hines ward on offense ..... got to learn to win the one on one battles . These guys are dirty , but they win
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:38 PM   #5
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The mess will end once we fire Mcd..
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:38 PM   #6
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Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjolras View Post
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.
Really?

you can't see how the picks were mismanaged?
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjolras View Post
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.
I am not surprised that you see that way.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:45 PM   #9
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This year, not too much.

Long term:

1. A good draft with a little luck in later rounds.
2. Signing free agents who work out for us. (And you often never know)
3. Injured people heal.
4. Fewer injuries next year.
5. Lots of reps in the off-season.
6. Having a season next year at all.
7. Other teams having bad luck at the right time, making bad signings and picks, and having key injuries.

Cause it's all relative.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
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we need some players like James Harrison,and a Hines ward on offense ..... got to learn to win the one on one battles . These guys are dirty , but they win
Minus the illegal hits, I agree completely.

Our defense just doesn't have a hammer. There's just no one to fear out there, and while I love Dawkins and he's doing the best job of leading he can... the torch has to be passed.

This is an issue for the off-season, but we really do need some aggressive, impact players on defense.

Mays is a nice start.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enjolras View Post
Again, I keep being told that the McDaniels drafts have been a disaster. Back that up, particularly the 2010 draft. I can't remember a more solid draft than the one we just had.
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:51 PM   #12
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Have to admit I'm envious of the way Mike Holmgren cut back on Eric Mangini's suck. You hardly hear about him at all any more, and they embarrass themselves much less often. It would be good to have a "csar" brought in to help out McD/be a GM.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:53 PM   #13
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Old Dude hit the main themes.

A. A healthy Doom returns.

B. A good draft/FA that brings in a disruptive pass rusher, a solid safety, more help on the Dline (NT and/or DE) and LB, an improvement at TE, and a solid backup at RT.

C. Another year under the belt for this young Oline.

D. No injuries.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:54 PM   #14
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Win some games.
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFate View Post
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.
yeah, Tebow will make or break that draft. I'm ok with the gamble, though I liked Freeman more if McD wanted to switch qbs, and if we miss a chance for Mallet this year, and Tebow is Tebust this may go down with the Steve Tensi trade.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:00 PM   #16
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We do suck but we have to give it one more year. We will get some high picks this year and I think Mcdaniels will be the one making them. He may get fired and if he does then i will try and get excited for the new coach. But even if he stays I will still be excited to see who we add in the draft.

A couple of contributing players to the front 7 in the draft, maybe a safety and a TE in FA, Doom comes back, Ayers gets better, Champ decides to stay and this defense could start to improve.

We have the offense minus a running game which could improve just because our oline is healthy for a whole offseason together.

Let's not discount the effect that Clady, Harris, Kuper all missing big chunks of practice time, workouts etc etc had.

To fix this mess we keep trying to find better players. IMO Lloyd a better WR then Marshall because Marshall is a pain in the ass. So having a good number 1, and 2 2nd round picks seems like it could work out. Losing Cutler was probably a mistake and it set the coach back. It forced him to look for qbs which is what brought the Hillis trade.

But he's young so I think give him that 3rd yr to make up for it. Then if he continues to spin out wheels look to make a move.

I do think we should hire Wade Phillips to coach our defense. He would be loads better then what we have. Plus he has a coaching tree of asst to call on because he's been in NFL for yrs and yrs.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:03 PM   #17
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:05 PM   #18
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I will be very surprised if Bowlen makes ANY coaching/FO changes before the labor issue is resolved, except that I expect there to be a Soviet Style Purge of the asst coaches this offseason. IF the fans openly revolt and refuse to renew, maybe. But he needs to build enthusiasm to sell the tix. After the season is over, then there's the draft even with a lockout. And that always gives rise to hopes. He can get Klis to write sloppy love balads about how brilliantly Tebow is coming along, esp if there are no games and no league sanctioned workouts.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:10 PM   #19
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This will clean up any mess.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:11 PM   #20
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These people will do anything to defend McDaniels, even if they don't defend McDaniels, they're still defending McDaniels.

-privatebeef
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFate View Post
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.
What an incredibly productive draft.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:14 PM   #22
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McDaniels has done a great job to to position us in this year’s draft, you got to give him credit for that. If he keeps up the good work we just might get the first pick........keep your fingers crossed that we don't have a collapse and win too many game down the stretch.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFate View Post
It is hard to remember all the way back to 2006...

Rnd Name College Note
1 Jay Cutler Vanderbilt
2 Tony Scheffler Western Michigan
4 Brandon Marshall Central Florida
4 Elvis Dumervil Louisville
4 Domenik Hixon Akron
5 Chris Kuper North Dakota
6 Greg Eslinger Minnesota


I realize there is a ton of hate on these guys now, but they are some pretty productive players.

Trading a 2, 3, and 4 for Tebow will either be a stroke of genius or a disaster.
The picks used to get tebow were manufactured only like an hour earlier by trading out of their original spot. Why are people so angered by this? Its nonsensical.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:27 PM   #24
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In addition to some of the points above, I would like to see an infusion of more speed.

This last draft, both Ford with the Raiders and McCluster with the Chiefs (along with Sproles re-upping with the Chargers) have improved our rivals overall speed and added difference makers to their special teams.

When do we get ours?
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:28 PM   #25
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I think the answer is pretty obvious. This team has two main issues. Inexperience and lack of talent. The games that we've been close in we've lost due to miscues, mostly on offense. Penalties and poor Red Zone execution are more or less the result of inexperience and/or youth than anything else. We have a young offensive line. Very young. How many other teams are starting two rookie OL? Combine that with the fact that they've all been banged up at one point, and it's not hard to see why they've struggled so much in the penalty and execution area compared to the last two years.

I actually kind of like the talent we have on the O-Line right now. Walton has his moments, but he's shaky in my eyes. He and Harris are the only two that I can see us ridding ourselves of. But both do have talent. Hopefully Harris rids himself of the injury bug and Walton progresses. They just need time, if they can overcome those two issues. Clady, Kuper and Beadles all look solid, if also in need of time to heal/come together.

Defensively...ack. Most of the flak that McDaniels gets on this board comes from the offensive moves he's made, but the most glaring issues this team has are all on defense. They're ****ing awful.

Now, injuries have a big part in this. Dumervil's mere presence last year gave us at least some semblance of a pass rush. He just made clutch play after clutch play. I don't know what impact he'd have on *this* team, but he'd improve it no doubt. Our biggest issue against Bradford was the pass rush. We shut Steven Jackson down, but never ever got close to touching Sam Bradford. Hunter's made some plays, but I don't think he should be on the field that much in a truly talented NFL defense. Same goes for Haggan. A tandem of Ayers-Dumervil would be in the best interest of this team. Pre-injury, the argument could be made that Ayers was our best defender, and he (and Orton) arguably won the Titans game for us, shutting down CJ. I hope his pass rush skills progress, because he's an admirable run stopper.

On the inside, I like Mays a lot. He makes plays against the run and gives us a real physical presence. D.J...jury's still out. For every play he makes he gives one up, and that seems to be the story of his career. I think if we ever want to have a truly good defense, we might have to look at investing a 1st-3rd round pick in an ILB.

The secondary moving forward is going to be a mess. Dawkins has played like **** this season. He's cost us more than a few TDs, and although I love his leadership, if he can't play any more, he has to go. Champ is clearly not the Champ of old, although he's still better than 80-90% of the corners in the NFL. Cox and Thompson have both made plays, but they're still rookies and have also made a ton of mistakes. Goodman hasn't even seen the field. Hill is what he always has been. A guy who can tackle and kind of cover. He's replaceable. As bad as the pass rush has been, our secondary hasn't helped by giving up a lot of timely plays (3rd downs, mostly. We're an awful 3rd down defense, which is where Doom thrived last season). Can McBath or Burton come in and fix any of this? I'm doubtful. Burton is a great STs player, but I doubt his coverage abilities, and McBath, who I love as a player, can't stay healthy with that forearm.

Up front we're hot and cold. McBean/Vickerson aren't getting it done. They need to be replaced. Bannan and Williams have good plays and bad. I honestly haven't noticed much of a difference between Williams this season and Fields last. Really the only bright spot on the D-Line this season has been Thomas, who seems to finally have made some progress and has made a few plays. Lots of talent is needed here. Lots.

I would love to hire a new GM to try and make fix these problems. However, I don't know if we're going to ever do this. I'm fairly satisfied with this past draft, especially if Tebow turns out to be as awesome as we all hope he does.

What is clear, no matter what happens, is that major additions are needed on defense. Pass rusher, D-Line, Safety, Corner, and ILB should all be added to and strengthened.

This team does some good things and it does a lot of bad things. It's clearly a team lacking in premier talent, and this goes back to the latter Shanny days. On offense, I'd like to see what it can do if everyone can stay healthy for once and some cohesion among the line is achieved. On defense, nothing can really be said about coaching changes there until the coaches actually have some young talent to work with. A frigging pass rush would be a fantastic addition to this team.
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