Obama Could Make a Brilliant Political Stroke

[Rohirrim]

All he has to do is take those parts of the health care bill which polled the highest (covering your kids until they're 26, not getting denied for pre-existing conditions, etc.) and keep those. And then just cut out the rest, like the mandate, which is universally despised.

Taking an action like this right out of the gate with the new House would completely deflate their agenda. And what are they going to do after having given so many speeches about it? Vote it down? The American people would perceive that, rightly, as total cowardice and hypocrisy and Obama would be the one who made the grand, conciliatory gesture.

Obama should stike immediately. If he doesn't, he will only be fighting the battle over that bill for the next two years and little else. And if he does win the battle after two years, it will be a Pyrrhic victory because he'll probably lose re-election. That's the GOP's plan.

[Mr.Meanie]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

All he has to do is take those parts of the health care bill which polled the highest (covering your kids until they're 26, not getting denied for pre-existing conditions, etc.) and keep those. And then just cut out the rest, like the mandate, which is universally despised.

Taking an action like this right out of the gate with the new House would completely deflate their agenda. And what are they going to do after having given so many speeches about it? Vote it down? The American people would perceive that, rightly, as total cowardice and hypocrisy and Obama would be the one who made the grand, conciliatory gesture.

Obama should stike immediately. If he doesn't, he will only be fighting the battle over that bill for the next two years and little else. And if he does win the battle after two years, it will be a Pyrrhic victory because he'll probably lose re-election. That's the GOP's plan.

By cutting out the mandate, do you mean the requirement that every citizen obtains insurance? I thought that was the entire point of the health care bill, to require everyone to pay into the system so the uninsured costs aren't continually subsidized by the insured. If people aren't required to pay in but there are only requirements for insurers to cover children, pre-existing conditions, etc.... then premiums are going to skyrocket like you can't imagine. That would be a disaster.

[The Lone Bolt]

Originally Posted by Mr.Meanie

By cutting out the mandate, do you mean the requirement that every citizen obtains insurance? I thought that was the entire point of the health care bill, to require everyone to pay into the system so the uninsured costs aren't continually subsidized by the insured. If people aren't required to pay in but there are only requirements for insurers to cover children, pre-existing conditions, etc.... then premiums are going to skyrocket like you can't imagine. That would be a disaster.

This.

Keep the mandate. In theory at least, creating a large pool will drive premiums down as it does in other cases. If it doesn't, tweak it. If that doesn't work, then consider other options.

The repubs are blowing smoke up our arses when they claim they can bring premiums down without expanding the pool.

[Drek]

Originally Posted by Mr.Meanie

By cutting out the mandate, do you mean the requirement that every citizen obtains insurance? I thought that was the entire point of the health care bill, to require everyone to pay into the system so the uninsured costs aren't continually subsidized by the insured. If people aren't required to pay in but there are only requirements for insurers to cover children, pre-existing conditions, etc.... then premiums are going to skyrocket like you can't imagine. That would be a disaster.

If they replaced the mandate with an opt-out program that took away the protections for not being able to pay we'd be taking a big step towards making that work.

The problem here is that ~50% of this country are idiots and don't understand what they're doing to America's future. Richard Nixon said in '77 that we needed a national healthcare plan or we would fall behind the rest of the first world. Richard ****ing NIXON. And now here we are in 2010 with no answers, feeling the burn of what he and many others saw coming.

There are some things that should not be left wholly open to the profiteering of a free market system. Defense, law enforcement, the legal system, education, and healthcare. Those are the basics all citizens should be given in order to create a society actually capable of moving forward. If we do not then we're going to watch nations that do (like China) surpass us on the global stage.

Personal greed will be the fall of the United States.

[Obushma]

Its falling apart for the Democrats, things are not going to get better.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

All he has to do is take those parts of the health care bill which polled the highest (covering your kids until they're 26, not getting denied for pre-existing conditions, etc.) and keep those. And then just cut out the rest, like the mandate, which is universally despised.

Taking an action like this right out of the gate with the new House would completely deflate their agenda. And what are they going to do after having given so many speeches about it? Vote it down? The American people would perceive that, rightly, as total cowardice and hypocrisy and Obama would be the one who made the grand, conciliatory gesture.

Obama should stike immediately. If he doesn't, he will only be fighting the battle over that bill for the next two years and little else. And if he does win the battle after two years, it will be a Pyrrhic victory because he'll probably lose re-election. That's the GOP's plan.

The repub-controlled house will immediately pass legislation to challenge the Obamacare bill.

If they cave right off the bat, it will be the end of the republican party and they know it.

I wouldnt expect the repubs to compromise on this bill.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by Drek

If
The problem here is that ~50% of this country are idiots and don't understand what they're doing to America's future. Richard Nixon said in '77 that we needed a national healthcare plan or we would fall behind the rest of the first world. Richard ****ing NIXON. And now here we are in 2010 with no answers, feeling the burn of what he and many others saw coming.

Just because you dont understand the ideas of people who obviously come from a different culture that has different values than you do doesnt make them stupid. It makes you ignorant.

Your party isnt going anywhere with the 'they're all stupid, they just dont understand our beaming wonderfulness' narrative. It doesnt make you look any more intelligent, it makes you look like someone that isnt going to be compromised with.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by ThyNatural

Its falling apart for the Democrats, things are not going to get better.

They are at a point to where they have to bend further to the right.

The socialist fellow there is exactly right. They cant keep living in a dream world where they think they can force liberalism on a country that tends to be right of center.

They have an ontological crisis.

[StugotsIII]

Obama and brilliant in the same sentence...

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by McSkillet

The repub-controlled house will immediately pass legislation to challenge the Obamacare bill.

If they cave right off the bat, it will be the end of the republican party and they know it.

I wouldnt expect the repubs to compromise on this bill.

They can pass all legislation they want. It still has to go through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They aren't going to do anything with the law

And to help you understand the legislative process:

[StugotsIII]

Originally Posted by elsid13

They can pass all legislation they want. It still has to go through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They aren't going to do anything with the law

And to help you understand the legislative process:

[orinjkrush]

I'd like O to repudiate TARP, roll it back as best as possible, reinstitute Glass Steagle, go after securitization shenanigans and throw all that in the lap where it belongs the Republicraps. Many still seethe over bail outs more than anything else.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

All he has to do is take those parts of the health care bill which polled the highest (covering your kids until they're 26, not getting denied for pre-existing conditions, etc.) and keep those. And then just cut out the rest, like the mandate, which is universally despised.

Taking an action like this right out of the gate with the new House would completely deflate their agenda. And what are they going to do after having given so many speeches about it? Vote it down? The American people would perceive that, rightly, as total cowardice and hypocrisy and Obama would be the one who made the grand, conciliatory gesture.

Obama should stike immediately. If he doesn't, he will only be fighting the battle over that bill for the next two years and little else. And if he does win the battle after two years, it will be a Pyrrhic victory because he'll probably lose re-election. That's the GOP's plan.

Repubs might just declare victory and take that. Then move on to making him extend the tax cuts.....which will be first by the way. The health care repeal may just be hyperbole but who knows. Repub power not so great they can really push the dems around.

Maybe though Pelosi relents and they do tax cut extension during the lame duck Congress. Then I guess some healthcare stuff when new congress sworn in.

Still though losing the mandate loses the money. How do you pay for the other stuff? Wouldn't that just make insurance go way up for everyone?

[mhgaffney]

Obama has hitched his political existence on Obamacare.

You expect too much.

Don't forget --- the HBOs and big pharma want to keep the bill as is. Why? Cause they probably wrote it.

[mhgaffney]

Originally Posted by orinjkrush

I'd like O to repudiate TARP, roll it back as best as possible, reinstitute Glass Steagle, go after securitization shenanigans and throw all that in the lap where it belongs the Republicraps. Many still seethe over bail outs more than anything else.

Yes but O is keeping Geithner.

Don't get your hopes up.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Originally Posted by elsid13

They can pass all legislation they want. It still has to go through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They aren't going to do anything with the law

And to help you understand the legislative process:

Sorry guy, but I was talking about repubs making an issue out of Obamacare rather than cooperating with liberals in trimming it up and passing it.

The subtleties are certainly lost on you.

[baja]

Did any of you see the movie Wall Street? Not much of a movie really but there was a Michael Douglas scene where he was giving a talk to a college student body that was awesome. He laid out the transfer of wealth that has been occurring in the US, how it was accomplished and what it meant for the future of the average Joe in America.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

All he has to do is take those parts of the health care bill which polled the highest (covering your kids until they're 26, not getting denied for pre-existing conditions, etc.) and keep those. And then just cut out the rest, like the mandate, which is universally despised.

Taking an action like this right out of the gate with the new House would completely deflate their agenda. And what are they going to do after having given so many speeches about it? Vote it down? The American people would perceive that, rightly, as total cowardice and hypocrisy and Obama would be the one who made the grand, conciliatory gesture.

Obama should stike immediately. If he doesn't, he will only be fighting the battle over that bill for the next two years and little else. And if he does win the battle after two years, it will be a Pyrrhic victory because he'll probably lose re-election. That's the GOP's plan.

Obama would never be re-elected if he did that. His deep pockets would dry up fast if he bit the hand that fed him like that.

[chadta]

Originally Posted by Drek

There are some things that should not be left wholly open to the profiteering of a free market system. Defense, law enforcement, the legal system, education, and healthcare.

when you dont pay per visit, healthcare is perceived tobe free, when its free its abused, people go to the doctor when they should just stay in bed for the day, you end up with waiting lists. do you want to wait in line at the ER for 10 + hours on average ? cuz thas what we face here in canada, and you will have the same if everybody has health coverage.

i agree nobody should have to choose between medication and food, and i hate the idea of people losing homes because of medical bills, but i think you need to have a decent sized user fee attached to anything to avoid the abuse we are seeing now.

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Don't forget --- the HBOs and big pharma want to keep the bill as is. Why? Cause they probably wrote it.

why does hbo care about healthcare ?

[mhgaffney]

Chadta,

To answer your question -- the health bill was to the HBO and pharmaceutical companies what the bail out was to banks. A giveaway.

Check out Hedges talk -- the death of the liberal class -- he covers this
http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle26658.htm

[chadta]

i thought you mean home box office

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by McSkillet

Sorry guy, but I was talking about repubs making an issue out of Obamacare rather than cooperating with liberals in trimming it up and passing it.

No, like elsid said you were talking about passing legislation. Here are your exact words:

Originally Posted by McSkillet

The repub-controlled house will immediately pass legislation to challenge the Obamacare bill..

When you're going to lie you should at least make an effort to cover your tracks, idiot.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by elsid13

They can pass all legislation they want. It still has to go through the Senate and signed into law by the President. They aren't going to do anything with the law

And to help you understand the legislative process:

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

All he has to do is take those parts of the health care bill which polled the highest (covering your kids until they're 26, not getting denied for pre-existing conditions, etc.) and keep those. And then just cut out the rest, like the mandate, which is universally despised.

Taking an action like this right out of the gate with the new House would completely deflate their agenda. And what are they going to do after having given so many speeches about it? Vote it down? The American people would perceive that, rightly, as total cowardice and hypocrisy and Obama would be the one who made the grand, conciliatory gesture.

Obama should stike immediately. If he doesn't, he will only be fighting the battle over that bill for the next two years and little else. And if he does win the battle after two years, it will be a Pyrrhic victory because he'll probably lose re-election. That's the GOP's plan.

That would be a brilliant political move that would put the house leadership into one hell of a bind. I would expect a guy like Bill Clinton to do that. But, would he be humble enough to admit that a lot of what is in this is a mistake that needs to be repealed? I doubt it. So forget it.

[cutthemdown]

You liberals are crazy if you think Obama caving to the Repubs on healthcare is some sort of genius move.