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Old 10-10-2010, 12:45 PM   #1
fontaine
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Default So this is a tougher team huh?

I've been hearing so far in the year that we're a "tougher" team.

I still don't see it. Apart from one quarter where we pushed around Flacco (because they got pass happy - Good job by Hunter) our defense gave up yards and TDs until they got completely tired in the 2nd half and B'more and their rushing game stoned our front 7.

Our offense though makes our defense look like the steel curtain. We look like a JV team in terms of the OL. Orton was once again chased around in the pocket, the RBs beaten up behind the line of scrimmage and the ravens man handled and rag dolled our OL. We pretty much cried uncle and gave up the running game once it was obvious just how badly we were executing out there.

I lost count of the amount of the times our OL was holding because they simply got beat, even by their LBers where our OL should have had a size advantage.

Oh yeah, but Orton and the passing game racked up a lot of meaningless yards (unless they were in the red zone where once again they sucked) so I guess it's okay.

This isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks thread" but a reality check. Our OL has become a huge liability taking the rest of the offense down with it. Until we fix that from coaching on down we're going nowhere.

Kuper/Harris/Hochstein/Clady started today with Walton. So the injury excuses have run out.

Last edited by fontaine; 10-10-2010 at 01:48 PM..
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:47 PM   #2
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Last edited by Dagmar; 10-10-2010 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:54 PM   #3
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Dagmar, like I said in my post this isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks" thread.

So I would appreciate it dude if you didn't spam this thread and edit your post to take out that huge pic.

I've never spammed a thread here, so it would be the decent thing to do.

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Old 10-10-2010, 12:55 PM   #4
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So the injury excuses have run out.
Really?

Yea.... Doom and Moreno probably wouldn't help this team much.

Not to mention losing McBath, Dawkins, Goodman and Thomas.


Nahhhhhh.... those guys wouldn't have helped today.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:56 PM   #5
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Dagmar, like I said in my post this isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks" thread.


Dude, you're attention-seeking and it looks like you'll get some.

Enjoy.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:58 PM   #6
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Really?

Yea.... Doom and Moreno probably wouldn't help this team much.

Not to mention losing McBath, Dawkins, Goodman and Thomas.


Nahhhhhh.... those guys wouldn't have helped today.

How exactly would those guys have helped along the OL?

Quote:
Kuper/Harris/Hochstein/Clady started today with Walton. So the injury excuses have run out.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Dagmar, like I said in my post this isn't meant to be a "Denver/Josh sucks" thread.

So I would appreciate it dude if you didn't spam this thread and edit your post to take out that huge pic.

I've never spammed a thread here, so it would be the decent thing to do.

You are polite. Done.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:00 PM   #8
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****ing pathetic excuses.WTF did they when they were playing last year?
What about the penalties..We are last in rushing..Horrible performance.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:00 PM   #9
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Dude, you're attention-seeking and it looks like you'll get some.

Enjoy.
I've been pretty clear about the problems along the OL from week 1.

I would have thought a guy that has perennially posted about improving the DL would have understood that.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:01 PM   #10
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You are polite. Done.
Thanks. Also I've always supported the Scots whenever they've played England in the 6 nations!!

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Old 10-10-2010, 01:01 PM   #11
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How exactly would those guys have helped along the OL?
I didn't say they'd specifically help the OL.

But, all units affect other units and we're still playing severely short-handed.

If you're trying to tell us that our OL is struggling at run-blocking, congrats on that astute observation. Call the front office. I'm sure no one else has noticed this. We certainly haven't talked about it around here ad nauseam.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:06 PM   #12
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I didn't say they'd specifically help the OL.

But, all units affect other units and we're still playing severely short-handed.

If you're trying to tell us that our OL is struggling at run-blocking, congrats on that astute observation. Call the front office. I'm sure no one else has noticed this. We certainly haven't talked about it around here ad nauseam.
The OL isn't struggling.

They're failing to the tune of setting NFL and franchise records. I think any logical fan would take struggling at this point to be a massive improvement.

But you've missed the point again. It isn't just about the run game it's also the passing game.

14 of our points came from outside the red zone when B'more went into prevent D. Any time they rushed more than 3 they bottled up Orton and harassed and hurried him, so the pass blocking is doing badly (although not as bad as the run blocking).
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:08 PM   #13
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The only injury that would have changed the game today is Doom's. Losing him changed the entire face of the entire season.

Even without the injuries and the numerous mental mistakes, the Broncos were most likely not gonna win this game. The Ravens are a top team with the kind of talent on both lines that we just don't have yet, as well as Flacco, Rice, Boldin, Housh, etc. They are a bonafide Super Bowl contender IMHO.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:15 PM   #14
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The OL isn't struggling.

They're failing to the tune of setting NFL and franchise records. I think any logical fan would take struggling at this point to be a massive improvement.
.
Yea, you'd better grab a dictionary, sport.

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But you've missed the point again. It isn't just about the run game it's also the passing game.

14 of our points came from outside the red zone when B'more went into prevent D. Any time they rushed more than 3 they bottled up Orton and harassed and hurried him, so the pass blocking is doing badly (although not as bad as the run blocking).
Ahhhh.... so, our OL is struggling, huh?

Again, I'm not sure what we would have done without this thread pointing out such a deep, intricate and highly disguised point.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
The OL isn't struggling.

They're failing to the tune of setting NFL and franchise records. I think any logical fan would take struggling at this point to be a massive improvement.

But you've missed the point again. It isn't just about the run game it's also the passing game.

14 of our points came from outside the red zone when B'more went into prevent D. Any time they rushed more than 3 they bottled up Orton and harassed and hurried him, so the pass blocking is doing badly (although not as bad as the run blocking).
We were told when mCd took over that the move to a Power run game would help us convert on 3rd down and inside the redzone.

Not only have we not seen a 1K or better RB in mCd's tenure but the OL went from one of the best in the league to the absolute worst. Even duh bears OL is better, just on run stats alone.

Our D is about the same as it has been since week 7 of 2006.

Our secondary isn't any better that it was.

We are not any tougher, if anything we are a weaker team because we cannot run at all.

Our passing attack can generate yards but not alot of points.

ST's are still a liability.

We need another full offseason cycle where we DRAFT DL and OL depth to get to the point where we can compete with teams like Ravens or Jets.

I still think that it might have been prudent to draft a DL this past draft rather getting Tebow who will not return any benefits until next year or even 2012...

But I am sure there is something popps will find to make him proud of the team and see that we are close to turning it around.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:17 PM   #16
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Today we were physically dominated. It was an embarrassment.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I've been hearing so far in the year that we're a "tougher" team.
I guess if you'd never seen a Broncos/Ravens game before today, you could say they didn't look very tough out there today.

If you're comparing this Broncos team to others, however, it's pretty easy to see if you're paying attention.

We lacked execution today, not physicality.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
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We were told when mCd took over that the move to a Power run game would help us convert on 3rd down and inside the redzone.

Not only have we not seen a 1K or better RB in mCd's tenure but the OL went from one of the best in the league to the absolute worst. Even duh bears OL is better, just on run stats alone.

Our D is about the same as it has been since week 7 of 2006.

Our secondary isn't any better that it was.

We are not any tougher, if anything we are a weaker team because we cannot run at all.

Our passing attack can generate yards but not alot of points.

ST's are still a liability.

We need another full offseason cycle where we DRAFT DL and OL depth to get to the point where we can compete with teams like Ravens or Jets.

I still think that it might have been prudent to draft a DL this past draft rather getting Tebow who will not return any benefits until next year or even 2012...

But I am sure there is something popps will find to make him proud of the team and see that we are close to turning it around.
This is exactly what I have been trying to say, but you put it out there just right. Most don't want to hear it. This team is different, just not really better. And worse in the run game, thanks McDaniels.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:21 PM   #19
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I guess if you'd never seen a Broncos/Ravens game before today, you could say they didn't look very tough out there today.

If you're comparing this Broncos team to others, however, it's pretty easy to see if you're paying attention.

We lacked execution today, not physicality.
When they are running out the clock and cram it down our throats for a touchdown drive, that is lack of physicality.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:23 PM   #20
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i bet our 2007 run defense could hold our current offense to 20 yards rushing.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:24 PM   #21
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When they are running out the clock and cram it down our throats for a touchdown drive, that is lack of physicality.
Yes, we're still less physical than the most physical team in the NFL, but far more so than Broncos teams in recent memory.

When you find the magic button to transform a team overnight, let me know, because I'll invest heavily.

I would bet there are a few franchise owners who would love that kind of technology.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:26 PM   #22
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You can't be a physical team throwing it 40-50 times a game. Sorry. Some of ya'll lapped that $hit up when McD was selling it.

He could care less about the running game and it shows. He may be talking about physicality in terms of our defense, and we've seen it there at times over his first two years but his overall affect on our rushing game has been dog-$hit. Anybody who says different or makes excuses for him is clueless. He's had a chance to put his impression on it and the experiment has failed miserably.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:28 PM   #23
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Tougher team. . .

Well, OK Fontaine.

Let's just put it this way.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an injury excuse to bring up why this team isn't being physical (high level) in games. You could have argued well that even with the off-season additions on this team, offensively or defensively, that this year -- the crop of players we had still weren't going to cut the mustard. Anyhoo. . .

Dumervil going down at OLB pinned this team hard down defensively. It would be hard to argue against us being better defensively if he were on the field. Getting a guy like Jason Hunter in at OLB to replace him just isn't going to cut it. I think Wink would be a lot more aggressive if Elvis were there on the edge.

Moreover, Ayers has developed solidly and hopefully can keep ascending, but there is no doubt we are devoid of solid pass-rushing talent with our front seven. This team needs good investment of talent there, be it veteran or youth.

I think D.J. has been solid on the inside, but there can be an upgrade next to him. We should be adding an ILB and OLB next year in the draft, as well as any position up on the DL. Early. It has to be done. Hopefully then, we can become to get more physical. We can do better than what we have there, no doubt about it.

Offensively, we are not a physical team up front off the ball. We have played some great defenses with quick defenders off the snap and our interior line, and overall I think most of our line, has struggled immensely. Especially Walton. I admire that he is getting good playing time, but he has been very average so far, but I guess that would be expected of a rookie.

We have had a carousel of players moving in and out of starting spots on our offensive line. A lack of cohesiveness is going in and out on a daily basis. We have tried Daniels, Hochstein, Beadles, Harris, etc. all at different starting positions. Health and durability is a concern and it probably has a serious impact on being able to be stable as a unit. The technique hasn't been there either and the issues have been quite serious.

You see it as well as everyone else here, our running game is just pathetic. I think most of the attribution goes to the offensive line not working well, but I think it is safe to say Buckhalter and Maroney aren't able to get much done. Maroney had a few nice gains today though. Good thing is Moreno should be back next week and hopefully we can get him going, but it'll be against a pretty stout Jets defense.

I have serious issues with the team running forward. If we can't run the ball effectively, I don't think we will be able to keep passing the ball this well. Some of today's stats were meaningless and in garbage time and down the road, defenses will probably be able to limit Kyle and the pass if we cannot establish the run.

We also need to pass rush better and I think our safety play needs to step it up. Our defense had some admirable stops today, but nothing seemed to get rolling. But yeah, I hear you. We need to play more physical and we need to be a tougher team. Upgrade the stables. I don't think McDaniels would be at fault for toughness. Perhaps we'll bring in some different OL this off-season?

Who knows.

We're 2-3 and face a good Jets team next week. Better hope being at home helps.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:30 PM   #24
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Yes, we're still less physical than the most physical team in the NFL, but far more so than Broncos teams in recent memory.

When you find the magic button to transform a team overnight, let me know, because I'll invest heavily.

I would bet there are a few franchise owners who would love that kind of technology.
The disappointing thing is not that we were less physical but that we weren't even close today. I agree that it seemed we had been getting more physical (bigger) but today was a real step backward in that department.
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:31 PM   #25
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i bet our 2007 run defense could hold our current offense to 20 yards rushing.
this offensive line would make Nate Webster look like Patrick Willis.
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