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Old 09-27-2010, 08:36 AM   #1
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per: footballoutsiders.com


Seemed worth sharing since I follow the site every week and they rarely do an audibles at the line of Denver since none of them actually are fans of the team.



Indianapolis Colts 27 at Denver Broncos 13
Aaron Schatz: Denver is playing some really tight coverage against the Colts today, at least in the first quarter. They just had a massive screw-up, muffing a Colts punt (recovered by Top 25 Prospects refugee Justin Tryon) which gave Indy the ball at the Denver 14... and the Colts couldn't move the ball, actually going back one yard on a bad run with two incompletions before Vinatieri came in for a field goal.

Mike Kurtz: Yeah, the other crazy thing is that they're getting decent pressure, and as far as I can tell they're doing it with relatively simple packages. The one time they tried something really crazy (a CB blitz on third-and-short), Manning read it perfectly and burned them with a quick toss outside.

Tim Gerheim: Kyle Orton is throwing the ball about as hard as you can throw it. Sometimes that makes it unnecessarily hard to catch, but other times it prevents Jerraud Powers from intercepting a pass on an out route. It also lets Demaryius Thomas show what good hands he has. And his touchdown to Brandon Lloyd was a spectacular throw. Any shorter and it's broken up by the DB trailing the play, any deeper and Lloyd probably can't come down with it before he goes out the back of the end zone. I almost wonder whether, if he didn't look like such a poindexter, he would have been regarded more highly throughout his career.


Mike Kurtz: Ortoooon! Poindexter, though? Never heard his appearance described as such.

I think what we're seeing with Orton is a bit involvement with a non-dysfunctional offensive system and a bit playing behind an offensive line that isn't a joke. He may even have a higher ceiling than I thought.

Simms: "You have to catch the ball, with your hands. And it has to be clean."

Orton is probably going to cut a sharp contrast between traditional stats and DVOA ... Orton had a monster game, 37-57-476-1-1, but something like half of his incomplete passes came in the red zone. Denver was within 20 five times and came away with no touchdowns, which was pretty much the difference in the game. I will say, however, that Denver's defense isn't nearly as awful as I thought it was, and kept the game close despite the offense's wasted opportunities.

Aaron Schatz: think we've already talked about this on the site a couple times, but what happened with Kyle Orton is that he never, ever should have played as a rookie. You can't expect a third-round rookie to play well, and in fact, he did not. If you take out his rookie numbers, and think of him as a third-rounder who sat on the bench for two years and then came in for his first action in 2007 and finally became the full-time starter in his fourth year, 2008, his career makes a LOT more sense.


Also, we were talking in the press box at Gillette about how Josh McDaniels did such an amazing job prepping Matt Cassel and setting up the offense for him -- despite Kansas City being 3-0, Cassel is not playing well without McDaniels as his coordinator -- and I think we're seeing some of that with Orton. McDaniels may be a terrible manager when it comes to interpersonal skills, but the dude knows how to handle quarterbacks and design offense.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:39 AM   #2
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How DARE you.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:45 AM   #3
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Orton is throwing the ball as hard as "he" can throw it. Fixed it for you. Not a dis, but of the games on tv, don't ever confuse either of the mannings' arms or even brees' with Orton.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:46 AM   #4
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Orton is throwing the ball as hard as "he" can throw it. Fixed it for you. Not a dis, but of the games on tv, don't ever confuse either of the mannings' arms or even brees' with Orton.
/rolleyes

He can't even throw it 50 yards! lulz!
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:47 AM   #5
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he's decent. On his one pass back across the field, he came up low and away. Orton does not, never did, and never will have, an elite arm. Live with it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendog View Post
he's decent. On his one pass back across the field, he came up low and away. Orton does not, never did, and never will have, an elite arm. Live with it.
And as such......you will always hate him, while at the same time continuing to have a raging boner for Beetus.

Live with it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:52 AM   #7
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he's decent. On his one pass back across the field, he came up low and away. Orton does not, never did, and never will have, an elite arm. Live with it.
Okay. Yet he threw the ball 50 yards, hit his receiver perfectly in stride and on time in the back of the end zone. What does that make his arm? "Slightly-less-than-elite"? "Very good"?

Elite arm strength is overrated. It's only a good thing if you're smart with the football as well, and have a great deal of accuracy.

JaMarcus Russell has an elite arm, but he can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn. How's that working out?

You do not need an "elite" arm to be successful. I'd say accuracy is about 100x more important.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:55 AM   #8
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Okay. Yet he threw the ball 50 yards, hit his receiver perfectly in stride and on time in the back of the end zone. What does that make his arm? "Slightly-less-than-elite"? "Very good"?

Elite arm strength is overrated. It's only a good thing if you're smart with the football as well, and have a great deal of accuracy.

JaMarcus Russell has an elite arm, but he can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside the barn. How's that working out?

You do not need an "elite" arm to be successful. I'd say accuracy is about 100x more important.
The pass was 48 yard TD pass. Lloyd was 7 yards deep in the end zone. Orton was 7 yards behind the LOS. Thats a 62 yard strike.

Just saying./
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:56 AM   #9
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The absolute hate for Orton is now bordering on ridiculous. One of those writers made a great point, if you pretend his first two years didnt exist (and substitute them with redshirt years if you will), he's been a pretty good quarterback.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:57 AM   #10
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yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:57 AM   #11
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The pass was 48 yard TD pass. Lloyd was 7 yards deep in the end zone. Orton was 7 yards behind the LOS. Thats a 62 yard strike.

Just saying./
An excellent point.

Noodle arm.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
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yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!
. I can name exactly ONE QB in the history of the NFL that was able to do that without REGULARLY incompleting the pass or getting picked off. John effing Elway.

I know he was our QB but holding ANYONE up to that standard is absolutely ****ing ludicrous.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:05 AM   #13
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Eli did it. Of course he pretty much cost it in the first qtr with boneheaded decisions. Look, just in case you missed it, homer. The reason the colts won was this guy named manning. the reason the broncs lost was NOT Orton. You people seemed determined to make Orton the next coming of Namath. Give it the F up. He's a good qb. Stupid thread, stupid homers.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:05 AM   #14
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. I can name exactly ONE QB in the history of the NFL that was able to do that without REGULARLY incompleting the pass or getting picked off. John effing Elway.

I know he was our QB but holding ANYONE up to that standard is absolutely ****ing ludicrous.
Yea, people have been saying silly things about QBs lately. Cassel of course deserves a lot of criticism but I got a kick out of someone blasting him for "not being able consistently throw the 40 yard out."

wtf?
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:05 AM   #15
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The absolute hate for Orton is now bordering on ridiculous.
So is the absolute adoration.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:06 AM   #16
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So is the absolute adoration.
That is funny, I don't see a lot of that. I see people giving him credit where it is due though.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendog View Post
yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!
Football Outsiders is a "jerkwad site"?

Interesting.

Why? Because statistically Orton isn't that bad, and you can't deal?
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:07 AM   #18
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So is the absolute adoration.
Certainly no more ridiculous than your adoration of Beetus.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:08 AM   #19
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Yea, people have been saying silly things about QBs lately. Cassel of course deserves a lot of criticism but I got a kick out of someone blasting him for "not being able consistently throw the 40 yard out."

wtf?
The 40-yard out route is a very important play in the NFL.

I like to see my team go tight, hold everyone in to block and run that play. Here's to getting seven seconds in the pocket.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:09 AM   #20
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Eli did it. Of course he pretty much cost it in the first qtr with boneheaded decisions. Look, just in case you missed it, homer. The reason the colts won was this guy named manning. the reason the broncs lost was NOT Orton. You people seemed determined to make Orton the next coming of Namath. Give it the F up. He's a good qb. Stupid thread, stupid homers.
No one is making him the next Namath. But good ****ing god you are criticizing the dude because he cant throw it 40 yards down field on teh run across his body.

What the ****.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:10 AM   #21
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Namath really wasn't that good.

Just saying.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:12 AM   #22
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wait, we are still questioning ortons arm strength?
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:17 AM   #23
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Here's the problem:
476 yards should = 38 points
When 476 yards = 13 points there is a problem, it could be OB play, coaching, rushing, red zone play calling..... whatever it needs to identified and addressed.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:30 AM   #24
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Here's the problem:
476 yards should = 38 points
When 476 yards = 13 points there is a problem, it could be OB play, coaching, rushing, red zone play calling..... whatever it needs to identified and addressed.
when 476 yards = 13 pts with ZERO turnovers in red zone (minus punt), thats when there is a lot of stuff taht needs to be addressed, and im sure they will.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:36 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendog View Post
yes. Orton is a decent passer when he is in the pocket, can step up and deliver the ball. He can't throw on the run against his body of off the back foot. But him in Sanchez's or Flacco's situation, and he does very nicely. He takes pretty good care of the football.

the original link is to a jerkwad site, and this thread is an example of the 100 post rule. JFC!
You have no idea what you are talking about. Football outsiders is a great site. They provide better insight into the game then 95% of the writers out there. They have many prominent followers in the league, and those who cover it.
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