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Old 09-20-2010, 10:06 PM   #1
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To me, I think it's becoming more clear every game, Moreno is going to be what Kevin Faulk was in NE. Now some people might think I'm slamming the guy but not really. While Kevin Faulk was definitely no Marshall Faulk, he was still a solid productive back who did several things very well, just nothing great. Moreno does show a ton of toughness out there on the turf. He does tough out some hard yards and if you don't think so you're blind. He catches the ball well and can block good enough. He's probably not going to break many long runs but he'll get a few here and there like he did Sunday. I have reached the verdict though that he's not going to be a great back. A solid player and one I think will make alot of nice plays for the Broncos but we are going to need another solid RB to help carry the load. He's just not going to make ENOUGH big plays to be a feature back. Again, not ripping the guy, he's steady, but for the Broncos offense to get to another level, I think we need another RB. Maybe when Maroney gets healthy, he can provide that extra boost. Those 2 healthy I think can be pretty good.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:08 PM   #2
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Let's learn to block first and then make definitive judgments.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:10 PM   #3
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Let's learn to block first and then make definitive judgments.
Exactly. When an OL is blocking, everyone looks like LT in his prime. When an OL isn't blocking, everyone looks like a RB stuck behind a crappy line.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:14 PM   #4
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Let's learn to block first and then make definitive judgments.
Nah, I've watched a ton of his running plays over and over and you just always get the feeling he left yards out there. Just a little to much hesitation here and there. I think great backs find ways to get yards even with so so blocking. Great backs help set up blocking. You can't just say hey OLmen, go out and pancake everybody on every play. That's not how blocking happens at the NFL level. You need backs who can feel running lanes out, set up defenders, and so on. As I said, I think Moreno does a decent job at these things, he just doesn't have that special something the great ones do. Are you saying you think he's going to be a great back?
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:22 PM   #5
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More often than not, Moreno gets the ball with either a guy or two in his face, or no hole whatsoever to run through.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:44 PM   #6
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Theh problem with trying to evaluate this guy at this point in the game is that he really hasn't been terribly healthy for most of his time here, starting with the injury last year then the hammy again this time around...I'm more concerned about whether he's injury prone at this point than anything else. But while I agree with the OP that he does seem to leave yards on the field, it's also true that I don't think we've really seen this guy at his top level performance yet. Mix in the ugly blocking and you've got reason to take a wait and see approach here. I'm hopeful for Maroney though as well...speed to turn the corner is one thing missing on this offense and he provides that out of the backfield which could really pop things loose for our WR's downfield as well.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:47 PM   #7
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Moreno has an extremely annoying running style...he dances a ton, often times unnecessarily and he does leave yards on the field that way....but he definitely flashes talent and had that great play this week in space on that pass play. I'll reserve judgement until the OL looks like something more than dog****, though.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:22 PM   #8
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Nah, I've watched a ton of his running plays over and over and you just always get the feeling he left yards out there. Just a little to much hesitation here and there. I think great backs find ways to get yards even with so so blocking. Great backs help set up blocking. You can't just say hey OLmen, go out and pancake everybody on every play. That's not how blocking happens at the NFL level. You need backs who can feel running lanes out, set up defenders, and so on. As I said, I think Moreno does a decent job at these things, he just doesn't have that special something the great ones do. Are you saying you think he's going to be a great back?
I think he could be... but more likely, he'll be part of a combo that will be effective. He can pound a team down when he's given enough space to make initial forward progress. He's not Chris Johnson, and he won't rip off a lot of long runs. But, he's effective at gaining chunks of yards when the blocking is there. We don't need to pancake people on every play, but the guy needs some space to work with. That's the kind of back he is. He can't have 3 ****ers draped on him as he takes the snap.

I think he's a 1200 yard rusher with good blocking. He ran for about 1K last year with ****ty blocking.

He's also useful in the passing game and tends to get into the endzone quite a bit.

I also think we need a dependable #2 back with some speed to mix in with him.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:03 AM   #9
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Yeah, I'm not giving up on the kid at all, I just feel on too many runs where there are lanes and he's gaining yards, that more yards could have been had. Too many times I'm watching a run saying ooh, this could be a big gain, the blockers are out there, there is space and not many defenders in the area, and next thing you know, the run is over and you feel like he either didn't set up the blocking well enough or didn't break a tackle that normally could be broken. Just stuff like that.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:06 AM   #10
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-bro...no-45-yard-rec

props to J.D. Walton on that play....

and Hochstein...smfh

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Old 09-21-2010, 01:11 AM   #11
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My point exactly. Excellent job at the start of the run, making some nifty moves, but once he got into the open with a few blockers out there and a single defender, that could have easily been a TD. I don't think he used those blockers that well at the end of the run. A single defender in space, while there was at least 1 or 2 blockers there, makes the tackle. Defintely yards left on the field.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:32 AM   #12
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My point exactly. Excellent job at the start of the run, making some nifty moves, but once he got into the open with a few blockers out there and a single defender, that could have easily been a TD. I don't think he used those blockers that well at the end of the run. A single defender in space, while there was at least 1 or 2 blockers there, makes the tackle. Defintely yards left on the field.
He should have kept running outside. When he started taking the ball between the hash's he ran right into that tackle.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:40 AM   #13
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My point exactly. Excellent job at the start of the run, making some nifty moves, but once he got into the open with a few blockers out there and a single defender, that could have easily been a TD. I don't think he used those blockers that well at the end of the run. A single defender in space, while there was at least 1 or 2 blockers there, makes the tackle. Defintely yards left on the field.
Not really. 1st off, Moreno is not a burner, and probably the only people whom can possibly turn that into a TD is Chris Johnson, Jahvid Best, or AP (maybe).

Watch the play again. If he cuts it inside, he's definitely going to get tackled by the DB thats off the screen that Lloyd is "blocking" or even Earl Thomas. He had to cut it to the outside, so the only thing I can agree with here is for him to keep cutting it the outside instead of cutting back in again.

Moreno is not a home run threat/burner type RB like a Jahvid Best.

If you watch enough football, you'd see that a play like that where an RB has 2 defenders that are essentially 5-15 yards ahead of him.. and they're moving backwards as he's going forward, that likely will not be a TD unless it's a runner I listed above.

Go watch some youtube clips from college of Moreno to see what type of runner he is, instead of sitting here talking about what he should be.

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Old 09-21-2010, 02:05 AM   #14
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Moreno obviously would do better with bigger holes. Any RB will do better as blocking gets more dominant. but.........

No way after all these carries it all the olines fault he doesn't make any big plays. He's just not a special back, game breaker type player. He's an avg NFL RB who can join the long list of other first round runners who lacked whatever it is the special ones have for making big plays.

Moreno doesn't make people miss much, has avg power, avg speed. He can be a decent player for us but nothing that would make the team pass on a super talented runner in the next couple drafts. That is if one is there for the taking etc etc.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:06 AM   #15
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Moreno obviously would do better with bigger holes. Any RB will do better as blocking gets more dominant. but.........

No way after all these carries it all the olines fault he doesn't make any big plays. He's just not a special back, game breaker type player. He's an avg NFL RB who can join the long list of other first round runners who lacked whatever it is the special ones have for making big plays.

Moreno doesn't make people miss much, has avg power, avg speed. He can be a decent player for us but nothing that would make the team pass on a super talented runner in the next couple drafts. That is if one is there for the taking etc etc.
Sorry bud, but TD or any running back in the Shanny era would be complete **** without blocking.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:18 AM   #16
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Sorry bud, but TD or any running back in the Shanny era would be complete **** without blocking.
Sorry bud but Moreno is an avg runner. He doesn't make people miss or have the speed to hit a home run. Blocking of course has to be good for a consistent running game. But no way can all the blame for a 1.7 yrd per carry offense be laid at the blockers. I've seen plenty of runs were I felt the runner either failed to hit hole, or had one guy to make miss to get into open and couldn't do it. Remember you rarely block everyone.

Look at Peterson the other night. He was making 2-3 guys miss then running a guy over at the end. I just don't see stuff like that from Moreno.

I'm not saying he's crap, I just don't feel he is a special player. I doubt he get's a big extension from Broncos when his rookie deal is up. Broncos will move on and keep looking for the real deal.
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Old 09-21-2010, 02:41 AM   #17
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Sorry bud but Moreno is an avg runner. He doesn't make people miss or have the speed to hit a home run. Blocking of course has to be good for a consistent running game. But no way can all the blame for a 1.7 yrd per carry offense be laid at the blockers. I've seen plenty of runs were I felt the runner either failed to hit hole, or had one guy to make miss to get into open and couldn't do it. Remember you rarely block everyone.
He doesn't have the speed to hit a home run, neither does most of the top RBs in the league or some ofthe greatest RBs of all time. **** we never had any RB outside of Clinton Portis and Tatum Bell be able to hit a home run, no one was complaining then? Neither does Peyton Hillis, BTW. I'm not sure why you keep reiterating this, but this was KNOWN at the time of draft. He isn't a "home run hitter" like a Jahvid Best.

He doesn't make people miss. I have no idea what the **** you're saying here. I think he was top 10 last year in yards after contact? I'd also hope you watch some of the Broncos games this year, because he broke off some nice runs in the Jags game, made nifty moves on defenders. Last game, he was consistently getting positive yardage in chunks of 3, 4, 5. He was a huge contributor for our strong start and game. It was during late 3rd qtr and 4th qtr that his avg started to slip. He's not exactly in 100% game shape yet, and he was gased late in the game.

Quote:
Look at Peterson the other night. He was making 2-3 guys miss then running a guy over at the end. I just don't see stuff like that from Moreno.
Why are you comparing him to AP? There is only 1 AP. He arguably the best RB in the league. AP and CJ are in their own league. But you know what? Minnsesota and Tenn. have 2 of the best run block oline's in the league. What a ****ing coincidence.

Quote:
I'm not saying he's crap, I just don't feel he is a special player. I doubt he get's a big extension from Broncos when his rookie deal is up. Broncos will move on and keep looking for the real deal.
Ok, so now you're thinking about his rookie extension after 18 games of his career, the 1st 16 in which he went through with lingering injuries, and yet still led his RB class his rush yards.

Did Knowshon miss some holes? Definitely. Could the blocking improve? definitely.

I think you and others here are talking about "it" that he supposedly doesn't have, but that "it" is just being a home run threat.

I don't see how you can sit here and watch Shanahan football for over a decade and not realize how important blocking is to the running game.

I have no idea what the **** you have going on in your head as far as expectations go, but if it is AP or Chris Johnson, save yourself the stress and realize that he was not drafted to be one of them nor was he ever projcted to have skill set of either.

The way you refer to players reminds of Raiders brand of football - and we all know how far that goes.

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Old 09-21-2010, 05:28 AM   #18
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To me, I think it's becoming more clear every game, Moreno is going to be what Kevin Faulk was in NE. Now some people might think I'm slamming the guy but not really. While Kevin Faulk was definitely no Marshall Faulk, he was still a solid productive back who did several things very well, just nothing great. Moreno does show a ton of toughness out there on the turf. He does tough out some hard yards and if you don't think so you're blind. He catches the ball well and can block good enough. He's probably not going to break many long runs but he'll get a few here and there like he did Sunday. I have reached the verdict though that he's not going to be a great back. A solid player and one I think will make alot of nice plays for the Broncos but we are going to need another solid RB to help carry the load. He's just not going to make ENOUGH big plays to be a feature back. Again, not ripping the guy, he's steady, but for the Broncos offense to get to another level, I think we need another RB. Maybe when Maroney gets healthy, he can provide that extra boost. Those 2 healthy I think can be pretty good.
I thought about that this weekend and we'd be lucky to get that kind of service out of any player.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:03 AM   #19
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Knowshon is a hard worker, who has skills in all three faucets of his game as a HB. Unfortunately he the ultimate "Jack of all trades, master of none." He was drafted 12th overall so people are expecting him to be a beast and he'll never be that. He's a 60/70 yd rushing guy who's going to chip in 4 or 5 receptions when he's healthy. Health is a concern with the guy, and his game couldn't replicate from the college level where his good quickness and average speed got him by. He still has solid quickness at the NFL level but his speed for the post part is sub-par.

We can all hope for lightning in a bottle with him, I just don't see it. He has RBBC written all over him. That's ok. He'll contribute when on the field and as I said before, you don't have to worry about him in the lockerroom or the offseason as he'll work hard for the team. There's something to be said for a contributor in these days even if they don't have the exact desired impact we all would like.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:01 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=The MVPlaya;2941975]Not really. 1st off, Moreno is not a burner, and probably the only people whom can possibly turn that into a TD is Chris Johnson, Jahvid Best, or AP (maybe).

Watch the play again. If he cuts it inside, he's definitely going to get tackled by the DB thats off the screen that Lloyd is "blocking" or even Earl Thomas. He had to cut it to the outside, so the only thing I can agree with here is for him to keep cutting it the outside instead of cutting back in again.

Disagree! I think if he had made 1 more stride to the left the db would've had to commit by turning Then slomo could've cut hard to the outside and probably scored.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:27 AM   #21
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Julius Jones 2.0 in my opinion.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:28 AM   #22
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Knowshon, I think, will mature very well, similar to a Ricky Williams. This kid still hasn't really had a full healthy training camp. He's going to get bigger and stronger as the years go by. Look at Ricky Williams, and look at Reggie Bush. These guys are young, and they get strength and grit, as they age. He's going to be fine. Not a Terrell Davis, maybe, but he's going to get better and better. We're just seeing the start. Let's get the O line healthy, and let them work together. One of the problems is we're used to one of the best running attacks in the game. Bobby Turner and Shanahan and the Zone Blocking System....you just can't get better than that.....I'm still not sold 100 percent on power blocking. I question whether we have the people to carry this off..........
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:45 AM   #23
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I watched the Seattle game again just to make sure I wasn't crazy defending the kid as much as I do. The kid is great. The kid is special. I am not sure why people don't see it. Did Kevin faulk vault over players? Did he spin out of two dlinmens grips like he did against the giants last year? He has inferior blocking, he is in a scheme that is not condusive to large numbers, he has been injured and he is till early in his career.

He is not Barry sanders or ap. But that doesn't mean he isn't great or will be. Walter Payton wasn't ap or sanders either. Just give the kid a chance and shut the **** up.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:52 AM   #24
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Kevin Faulk is averaging 300 yds rushing per year and only hit 600 yards once.....900 his rookie year? He wishes.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:54 AM   #25
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His story is a long ways from being written, but I have definately lowered my expectations since we drafted him.
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