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Old 09-15-2010, 01:03 AM   #1
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Default Think Josh pooped the bed with the Smith pick?

http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/201...ts-top-50.html
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:28 AM   #2
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Obviously not an updated list. Jamarcus isn't number 1 and Alphonso Smith isn't number 2.
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:33 AM   #3
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I don't agree with the rankings... Rick Mirer all the way down at #18? And JaMarcus Russell at #14? And where's Todd Marinovich? If he was on there, I missed seeing it.

Dunno if you can consider a player a "bust" when injuries are the reason why they didn't live up to expectations (such as Steve Emtman). That's a whole different ball game than attitude problems, weight gain and simple apathy derailing a career the minute the college standout gets a big payday.

Also... isn't it a tad early to apply the "bust" label to Alex Smith?
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:50 AM   #4
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Also... isn't it a tad early to apply the "bust" label to Alex Smith?
He's going into his 6th season in the NFL.

Go ask any niners fan about him.
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:21 AM   #5
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This is northeast bias. There's not a single Denver draft pick on the list!
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:23 AM   #6
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This is northeast bias. There's not a single Denver draft pick on the list!
We signed two of those guys and traded for another.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:28 AM   #7
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What a fail. lol
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:28 AM   #8
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Looks like they may have to remove Mike Williams (WR) from that list, at least from the looks of last week's game. I also don't consider guys like Courtney Brown busts. They just had bad luck, especially with the injury bug. Fonze was a flop, though. Dumb, dumb pick. BTW, we can watch Earl Thomas this weekend.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:49 AM   #9
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I have a problem with writers who are unable to use past tense when writing about things that happened in the past.

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Old 09-15-2010, 09:00 AM   #10
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Think Josh pooped the bed with the Smith pick?
No, Smith was projected as a late first to early second CB. We needed a CB, he fit the system we were looking to put in place, and he was good value in the early 2nd.

He pooped the bed when he traded a future 1st. This is why he did so much draft day jockeying this past season. He wanted Tebow and Thomas but he wasn't going to give up a future 1st to make it happen.

McDaniels and Xanders one real draft mistake was trading a future 1st for a 2nd. The points make sense but its rarely a move teams look back on happily. They got over anxious and learned their lesson. You can see that in this year's draft when they worked quite diligently to only give up future value when they knew it was worth it, like splitting a future 5th into two 7ths.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:01 AM   #11
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He's going into his 6th season in the NFL.

Go ask any niners fan about him.
Yeah, I don't really want to talk about Alex Smith.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:07 AM   #12
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No, Smith was projected as a late first to early second CB. We needed a CB, he fit the system we were looking to put in place, and he was good value in the early 2nd.

He pooped the bed when he traded a future 1st. This is why he did so much draft day jockeying this past season. He wanted Tebow and Thomas but he wasn't going to give up a future 1st to make it happen.

McDaniels and Xanders one real draft mistake was trading a future 1st for a 2nd. The points make sense but its rarely a move teams look back on happily. They got over anxious and learned their lesson. You can see that in this year's draft when they worked quite diligently to only give up future value when they knew it was worth it, like splitting a future 5th into two 7ths.
Ah, no. He didn't project into the first. He projected as a second rd pick, and Den took him about where he was slotted to go, but they used a first rounder to trade into the spot. But be that as it may. McDaniels took a flier, and move on. Baja's just mowing McDaniel's yard today for whatever reason by starting threads for spin.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:10 AM   #13
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yes he did...move on and learn from it...end thread
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:16 AM   #14
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Ah, no. He didn't project into the first. He projected as a second rd pick, and Den took him about where he was slotted to go, but they used a first rounder to trade into the spot. But be that as it may. McDaniels took a flier, and move on. Baja's just mowing McDaniel's yard today for whatever reason by starting threads for spin.
Smith was widely considered one of the best CBs in his draft class. The Broncos in fact had said they had him listed as a late 1st rounder. Various draft prognosticators had him as a late 1st/early 2nd type. Just the facts there man.

The trade was the mistake. Player selection was not. Alphonso Smith was a hard nosed, 110% effort CB in college who for some reason was not ready to step his game up to the NFL level mentally. He looked to have everything you want, but for some guys the light doesn't come on. This pre-season it looked like it started to for Smith, but by then younger guys had caught up to him (Thompson and Vaughn, with Cox passing him).

Look at the list Baja put up. Mandarich isn't a bust you can blame on those who picked him. He had everything you'd look for in a OL prospect, from physical talents to collegiate credentials. He just happened to be a steroid fueled headcase. Teams work hard to gauge the mental make up of prospects but is far from an exact science.

Guys come into the NFL all the time who say the right things and do the right things in college but once they get NFL money the foot comes off the gas pedal. All you can do is hope you don't wind up with one of those guys.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:34 AM   #15
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Yeah, I don't really want to talk about Alex Smith.
A. Smith is the guy who scares me about Tebow. Smith qbed the running utes in the mountian west where they had that four corner spread offense UNDER URBAN MEYER that isn't somethign to prepare a guy for the nfl. I think Tebow will be ok just with work ethic, though, and I never really liked the chanes of Smith. It was sort of like SF needed a qb, and they had the no1 overall pick, and Smith was the top guy in a bad year.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...y_round/1.html

Ironically, this was the draft where Shanny raped Washington over the Jason Campell pick.

'Campbell was drafted as the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins under General Manager Vinny Cerrato. The Redskins traded up in the draft to get Campbell, surrendering a third round pick in the 2005 NFL draft, along with first and fourth round picks in 2006.[2]" (Den ended up with Paymah, and Brandon Marshall, but Shanny did something with the no 1 pick and ended up taking Cutler by moving up somehow)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell

And Aaron Rodgers fell all the way to Green Bay, and he's the best of class.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:35 AM   #16
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just let it go. and go on washing McDaniels' cars. But the fact is A.Smith rated as somewhere in the top 40 picks. maycock had him as the 4th best corner. McDaniels traded the FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK to take the guy AT THIRTYSEVEN and the draft guys lauged their asses off. Taking this guy with THE FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK WAS A FREAKING REACH.

McDaniels took a flier and gave up more value to take the guy about where he was ALWAYS SLOTTED. Jesus, the catholics don't defend the frigging pope like you guys. lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09...s&confirm=true

Last edited by bendog; 09-15-2010 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:35 AM   #17
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"The parameters

Players must have been drafted in 1970 or later, when the NFL and AFL officially joined, and must have been picked in the top 10.

Given those parameters, here are the top 50 Biggest NFL Draft Busts as chosen by our staff."

If Smith not making this list is supposed to be evidence that Josh did not poop the bed I am going to need to see a little something more.
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The MVPlaya View Post
He's going into his 6th season in the NFL.

Go ask any niners fan about him.
Doesn't matter... he's still a starting QB in the NFL. I don't think you can apply a "bust" label unless or until some career backup outplays him and takes the starting job away. I'd say the jury's still out on Smith although the clock is ticking. It won't surprise me a bit if SF takes that division this year though.
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:11 AM   #19
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Jamarcus should be #1 all time. Number one overall, one of the quickest cuts of all time for a #1 quarterback, and absolutely zero flashes of success. Just nothing except a win over the Broncos.
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:32 AM   #20
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just let it go. and go on washing McDaniels' cars. But the fact is A.Smith rated as somewhere in the top 40 picks. maycock had him as the 4th best corner. McDaniels traded the FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK to take the guy AT THIRTYSEVEN and the draft guys lauged their asses off. Taking this guy with THE FOURTEENTH OVERALL PICK WAS A FREAKING REACH.

McDaniels took a flier and gave up more value to take the guy about where he was ALWAYS SLOTTED. Jesus, the catholics don't defend the frigging pope like you guys. lol

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09...s&confirm=true
So you agree that Smith was a legitimate top 40 prospect. Great.

McDaniels wheeled and dealed the first year by the draft value chart. After the Smith trade he realized that draft value charts don't mean ****. Hence why this year he gave up points to move down (twice), gave up points to make sure he got Tebow without giving up 2010 picks to do so, and then when he saw an opportunity to split a future pick (our 2010 5th) into two players in this year's draft he jumped on it.

In short, he screwed up bad with his first big draft trade and he's aware of that fact.

On the subject of draft value charts and that last trade we made in the draft: Instead of going by the draft value charts teams need to realize that anything past about the 3rd is a fungible pick you can easily replace. Its the top 3 rounds that hold the real value, and you've got to treat those picks accordingly. Once you're out of the top 3 rounds quantity is far more important than quality. I'd take three sevenths over a single 4th any day of the week if my team had the roster spots open that needed filling. But the draft value chart would tell you I'm crazy to do so.
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Old 09-15-2010, 11:58 AM   #21
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Jamarcus should be #1 all time. Number one overall, one of the quickest cuts of all time for a #1 quarterback, and absolutely zero flashes of success. Just nothing except a win over the Broncos.
Gonna have to disagree here. Jamarcus was terrible, but his stats are still far better than those of Ryan Leaf.

Leaf only won 4 games in his career, a little more than half the number that Russell won. Winning percentage for Leaf is a little more than 19%; for Russell, 28%. Leaf completed less than 50% of his passes for his career (48.4), while Russell at least completed more than half for his career (52.1). Touchdowns to interceptions, Russell dominated Leaf (18/23 compared to 14/36).

The biggest thing is that the Chargers actually traded up to get Leaf. They gave up 2 first round picks, a second rounder, and a 4 time pro bowler in Eric Metcalf. To tell the truth, I doubt there will be another bust that was the equal of the Ryan Leaf failure in my lifetime.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:08 PM   #22
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Gonna have to disagree here. Jamarcus was terrible, but his stats are still far better than those of Ryan Leaf.

Leaf only won 4 games in his career, a little more than half the number that Russell won. Winning percentage for Leaf is a little more than 19%; for Russell, 28%. Leaf completed less than 50% of his passes for his career (48.4), while Russell at least completed more than half for his career (52.1). Touchdowns to interceptions, Russell dominated Leaf (18/23 compared to 14/36).

The biggest thing is that the Chargers actually traded up to get Leaf. They gave up 2 first round picks, a second rounder, and a 4 time pro bowler in Eric Metcalf. To tell the truth, I doubt there will be another bust that was the equal of the Ryan Leaf failure in my lifetime.
Perhaps... but in light of what the Raiders gave up for JaMarshmallow... and the expectations they had for him (#1 overall as opposed to #2 overall), there's no way he should come in anywhere below the second-biggest draft bust ever... even if one does concede Leaf at #1.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:28 PM   #23
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Perhaps... but in light of what the Raiders gave up for JaMarshmallow... and the expectations they had for him (#1 overall as opposed to #2 overall), there's no way he should come in anywhere below the second-biggest draft bust ever... even if one does concede Leaf at #1.
I do agree that he's the 2nd biggest bust.
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:32 PM   #24
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Smith was widely considered one of the best CBs in his draft class. The Broncos in fact had said they had him listed as a late 1st rounder. Various draft prognosticators had him as a late 1st/early 2nd type. Just the facts there man.

The trade was the mistake. Player selection was not. Alphonso Smith was a hard nosed, 110% effort CB in college who for some reason was not ready to step his game up to the NFL level mentally. He looked to have everything you want, but for some guys the light doesn't come on. This pre-season it looked like it started to for Smith, but by then younger guys had caught up to him (Thompson and Vaughn, with Cox passing him).

Look at the list Baja put up. Mandarich isn't a bust you can blame on those who picked him. He had everything you'd look for in a OL prospect, from physical talents to collegiate credentials. He just happened to be a steroid fueled headcase. Teams work hard to gauge the mental make up of prospects but is far from an exact science.

Guys come into the NFL all the time who say the right things and do the right things in college but once they get NFL money the foot comes off the gas pedal. All you can do is hope you don't wind up with one of those guys.
No big deal. It wasn't as big a screwup as taking Jeff George or Ryan Leaf. I guess that was Baja's pt. I apologize if I was rude. I thought the thread a lame attempt to buff McDaniels. Maybe I disagree on what makes a bust. A guy like Carter coming out of CU, who can predict he'll blow a knee. Not a bust. Tony Mandrich was roiding and an addict. Bust. The fact that a team didn't realize it doesn't make it not a bust. Ryan Leaf was a jerk. Somebody might have noted that Peyton Manning doesn't do crap like Leaf pulled.

I still have an open mind on McDaniels. Imo the 09 draft was on the job training, and I'm still miffed that Bowlen hired a guy who wasn't ready, but I was tired of some of Shanny's stuff, and I was going to cancel direct ticket anyway. (the running back fathering all the kids and not paying support was the last straw) Even with a playoff caliber team, I didn't want it in my house anymore, and could just catch a quarter or two in a bar.

As for draft picks, I'm not sure I totally agree. If I was rebuilding from scratch, like you say, I might take three 7s over one 4. To me it really depends on the talent available in the particular rounds. 2005 for example was loaded with defensive backs in around the second- third round. Shanahan nicely managed that draft by trading out of the first rd for an extra 3 that year (and a 1 and 4 I think in 2006). He played the odds well taking DWill in the 2nd and Foxworth with the extra 3 and Paymah, and then rolled dice on Claret, with supplementals. Why Claret, God maybe knows.

I didn't mind at all when Shanny traded the back end of the draft for a 4 to pick Marcus Thomas, but I'd seen him play his junior year. He played out of position last year with no complaint. I'm not sure he's really a 3-4 guy though.

I dunno, maybe 2006 was like that where Den had 3 fours and got Marshall, Doom and Hixon.

I'm not saying you're wrong at all. I agree pretty much. But your post made me go back and look, and shanny didn't do to badly in the 4th.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/den.htm
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:42 PM   #25
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Gonna have to disagree here. Jamarcus was terrible, but his stats are still far better than those of Ryan Leaf.

Leaf only won 4 games in his career, a little more than half the number that Russell won. Winning percentage for Leaf is a little more than 19%; for Russell, 28%. Leaf completed less than 50% of his passes for his career (48.4), while Russell at least completed more than half for his career (52.1). Touchdowns to interceptions, Russell dominated Leaf (18/23 compared to 14/36).

The biggest thing is that the Chargers actually traded up to get Leaf. They gave up 2 first round picks, a second rounder, and a 4 time pro bowler in Eric Metcalf. To tell the truth, I doubt there will be another bust that was the equal of the Ryan Leaf failure in my lifetime.
You have persuaded me, your answer is deemed acceptable. However, Jafatty is very close, because of the extra credit he gets for being #1 overall.

Leaf, although he was Number 2, was controversial from the get-go because of the Peyton situation. The Colts correctly surmised the situation, and it tends to soften the blow that he wasn't taken over Peyton.
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