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Old 07-09-2010, 09:36 AM   #126
Pontius Pirate
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What "I" think needs to be done in order to address the issue of illegal immigration... is to identify and prosecute any corporation that employs said illegal immigrants. Just like a weed in your backyard, if you don't go after the root of the problem, your efforts are wasted and/or will be minimally effective.

Enforcing existing federal laws would be a good start. But the reason for the lawsuit is to clarify whether or not a state law can take precedence over federal law. I honestly cannot imagine any scenario in which Arizona wins this lawsuit in a federal court... which means going to trial is most likely a waste of time and money.
Arizona already does this. They are one of the toughest in the country. The problem is that most of the employment of illegals (in AZ) is through smaller mom & pop outfits and on farms. The funny thing is that illegals in Phoenix (and in many SW cities) will just stand around on a corner outside of Home Depot waiting for some contractor, or dude doing housework, to pick them up and pay them under the table for simple labor. Since "employer" doesn't really apply in these situations, there is no way to "sting" those type of situations. I.e. there is no corporation consipiring against the law. And if the cops did try to sting it, it would be "racisit." Hence SB1070 requiring the cops to sting it.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:50 AM   #127
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Yep. The question is whether or not states have the right to enact legislation that contradicts and/or supersedes the U.S. Constitution (in this case, the 14th Amendment).
The 14th Amendment does not protect illegal immigrants or non-naturalized citizens. Its political correctness that is hampering justice is this country, not the fact that AZ wants to actually protect its border with Mexico.

If you are a citizen of the US, there is nothing to worry about. Countries like Mexico enforce their laws with no problem, that is, if they think you are not a citizen they will make you produce documentation.

However, here in the US where political correctness rules the day, our police can't ask for documents because they might inconvinience a few naturalized and legal citizens.

In other countries, this is ok because they are enforcing the law. In the US, it's not ok because it's deemed racial profiling.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:00 AM   #128
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Or you get asked when your skin is the wrong color. Why do you think that would never ever ever ever happen? Do you not live in reality with the rest of us?
Again with this crap? Would it make you feel better if the cop was a Latino or a Black or an Asian?

Can you sleep at night if that is the case?
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #129
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Again with this crap? Would it make you feel better if the cop was a Latino or a Black or an Asian?

Can you sleep at night if that is the case?
Would it make me feel better? Why would that make any difference at all?

I sleep fine at night, thank you. I'm not out witch hunting like, ahem, some of you.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:04 AM   #130
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Would it make me feel better? Why would that make any difference at all?

I sleep fine at night, thank you. I'm not out witch hunting like, ahem, some of you.
weak
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:06 AM   #131
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weak
No this is weak.

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Again with this crap? Would it make you feel better if the cop was a Latino or a Black or an Asian?
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:19 AM   #132
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I've had cops lie and say they pulled me over because I was speeding when I knew I wasn't. Then they basically see if your drunk or have anyone in car with a warrant. Then they let you go.

Now it will be let's stop them for something, then see if they are legal or not.

I get it, you want illegals either to be legal paying there way or gone. I agree with you. I just don't think states making own laws on this is the way to go.

Obama is blowing it, but Reagan, Bush SR, JR, Clinton all blew it also. Not sure if this was already a problem under Carter but I was so young then i can't know.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:22 AM   #133
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how do you expect me to feel. I have a ton of Latino American friends who don't like this law. I have to go with them because it doesn't really matter as much to me. I think they are good hard workers and what you want to get rid of is the ones in prison, dealing drugs, doing crimes. Not the ones on the corner looking for a days work. At least not like most at the unemployment office looking for a handout.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:26 AM   #134
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The Arizona law is not the way to do it. Get over it. Courts will strike it down as they should. And this is coming from a state rights person. This however can not be a state issue. It has feds written all over it.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:57 AM   #135
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Would it make me feel better? Why would that make any difference at all?

I sleep fine at night, thank you. I'm not out witch hunting like, ahem, some of you.
No, you'ld prefer not to catch those who are breaking the law, because in doing so you might upset a few innocent citizens.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:16 AM   #136
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Yes, let's give it to the feds to do while they continue to do nothing. If the feds were really going to follow federal law, then AZ would have gotten rid of their new law by now and let the feds handle it. Obama and his admin. has no interest in protecting the borders, as well as the majority of politicians. I find it comical how some are so staunch in their belief AZ shouldn't be allowed to protect its own border and believe it's up to the feds when they haven't done a ****ing thing about in decades.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:22 AM   #137
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No, you'ld prefer not to catch those who are breaking the law, because in doing so you might upset a few innocent citizens.
You really can't have a discussion without being shrill, can you TGN? Are you just incapable of having a grown up conversation without resorting to bull**** "you just don't want to catch people breaking the law!" nonsense.

It's pathetic. It would be funny if it weren't so childish.

It's not about "upsetting" a few innocent citizens. It's about "arresting" and "trampling the civil rights of" a few innocent citizens.

And what's more, THERE ARE BETTER ****ING WAYS OF DOING THIS. Like cutting off the jobs that these people are coming to this country for. Until you make any REAL strides in that direction, a law like this is trampling civil rights for NO reason.

Christ. Pull your head out of your ass.

"TGN just wants to trample civil rights!" See what a ridiculous argument that is? I know that's not your intent, but to make my point, I'll accuse you of something ridiculous. It's the reasoning of a five year old, which is why I don't use it. Try to grow up.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:24 AM   #138
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Yes, let's give it to the feds to do while they continue to do nothing. If the feds were really going to follow federal law, then AZ would have gotten rid of their new law by now and let the feds handle it. Obama and his admin. has no interest in protecting the borders, as well as the majority of politicians. I find it comical how some are so staunch in their belief AZ shouldn't be allowed to protect its own border and believe it's up to the feds when they haven't done a ****ing thing about in decades.
Yep. It's all Obama's fault. When it was happening under Reagan and Bush I and Clinton and Bush II, it was Obama's fault then, too.

When you cut off the jobs, you'll be a step closer to solving this problem. Until you do that, a law like this is completely inane. "OKay, we arrested and sent back 150 people today! 125 will be back tomorrow because there are still jobs here, but STILL! Look how many people we got rid of! Hooray!" what an absolutely ****ing retarded idea.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:35 AM   #139
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Yep. It's all Obama's fault. When it was happening under Reagan and Bush I and Clinton and Bush II, it was Obama's fault then, too.

When you cut off the jobs, you'll be a step closer to solving this problem. Until you do that, a law like this is completely inane. "OKay, we arrested and sent back 150 people today! 125 will be back tomorrow because there are still jobs here, but STILL! Look how many people we got rid of! Hooray!" what an absolutely ****ing retarded idea.
I said nothing has been about this for decades, so how did I put the blame just on Obama? No, securing the border is what is needed first. Without jobs, many will turn to crime if are not sent back, which they have already done, which is why AZ decided to do this in the first place. You just stated they will be back tomorrow if sent back. The **** they would if the border was being protected like the federal government is supposed to be doing in the first place. If the feds were doing its job, this wouldn't be an issue.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:55 AM   #140
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Yep. It's all Obama's fault. When it was happening under Reagan and Bush I and Clinton and Bush II, it was Obama's fault then, too.

When you cut off the jobs, you'll be a step closer to solving this problem. Until you do that, a law like this is completely inane. "OKay, we arrested and sent back 150 people today! 125 will be back tomorrow because there are still jobs here, but STILL! Look how many people we got rid of! Hooray!" what an absolutely ****ing retarded idea.

Here's another "shrill" tidbit: Using your analogy, maybe we can stop bank robbers be closing all the banks, in lieu of arresting them after the fact (after they broke the law).

These MFing Illegal migrants have broken the law and we should just turn our backs and act as if it's fine and dandy and the only one's at fault are the employers.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:07 PM   #141
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Here's another "shrill" tidbit: Using your analogy, maybe we can stop bank robbers be closing all the banks, in lieu of arresting them after the fact (after they broke the law).

These MFing Illegal migrants have broken the law and we should just turn our backs and act as if it's fine and dandy and the only one's at fault are the employers.
And again you take the most overly-simplistic view and just run with it. Don't know why I'm surprised. I shouldn't be.

Did I ever say that the ONLY thing we should do is punish the employers? Did I? No. It's the FIRST STEP that needs to be taken. Take away the reason they come here. THEN (this is what we call "step two," TGN, since this is a bigger problem than one solution can fix... at least here in the real world), you focus on finding and moving the illegal people back across the border, OR move towards citizenship for them as well.

I know, I know, it would be so awful to offer these folks a path to citizenship, but... would it really be THAT awful? I'm not talking about just making them full citizens. If they want to work for it, they can. And if they stop working towards citizenship, they're taken out of the country.

It would be a ****load more accurate than trying to find illegal needles in a haystack. Offer them a road to citizenship. Register them that way. Move them through the process.

Or, I guess, you could just arrest anyone who looks Mexican. That would probably be as effective.

Retarded.

By the way: Your bank robber analogy is a poor one. If bank robbery suspects were listed simply as "a mexican looking man" you might have something, but that's not how it works. Under the arizona law we're talking about here, EVERYONE is a suspect. It's absurd.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:17 PM   #142
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Some of you have no idea about the world you live in.

Your puppet masters want the cheap exploitable labor what is so hard to understand about that. I think it is as obvious as the nose on your face.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:23 PM   #143
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What's the point of having an immigration policy or borders if we're not going to enforce it?

Why is it ok for Mexico to check for papers and deport people that do not have the proper identification to be in Mexico but not for the United States to do the same?

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Old 07-09-2010, 12:25 PM   #144
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I guess I thought we were a better country than Mexico. With more freedoms and actual civil rights.

Guess not. We should strive to be just like them, I suppose.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:26 PM   #145
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Or you get asked when your skin is the wrong color. Why do you think that would never ever ever ever happen? Do you not live in reality with the rest of us?
like i stated before knucklehead. Come out and say you dont trust cops and that we should have no speeding tickets since cops can pull u over by the basis of your skin. You can go on oand on but the main point is that you think cops are corrupt (at least enough to not pass a law). Come out and just say it but be consistent with everything not just this law.
Moose, the law doesnt make everyone a suspect. Please just read it unlike Obama and see that you need to do a crime first. If an illegal alien is reporting that someone broke into their house, they are not being asked if they have their paperwork to be in the country. Therefore, your point is, well, pointless. Have facts straight before exposing them to the forum.

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Old 07-09-2010, 12:30 PM   #146
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I've had cops lie and say they pulled me over because I was speeding when I knew I wasn't. Then they basically see if your drunk or have anyone in car with a warrant. Then they let you go.

Now it will be let's stop them for something, then see if they are legal or not.

I get it, you want illegals either to be legal paying there way or gone. I agree with you. I just don't think states making own laws on this is the way to go.

Obama is blowing it, but Reagan, Bush SR, JR, Clinton all blew it also. Not sure if this was already a problem under Carter but I was so young then i can't know.
I hate to sound too preachy but a leader leads. Obama is not leading on this issue, he is backsliding and blaming and pointing fingers and being an overall moron about the whole thing.

He's not qualified to be the president and this demonstrates exactly why he's not qualified.

The oil spill is another indication he doesn't have a clue. If Bush was still in office, the lefties would be crucifying him and yet Obama is getting a free pass for doing nothing.

The hypocrisy of the left is just astounding. Really, it is.

I'm calling Obama out on being a moron and completely out of touch with the country. He's way more interested in protecting lobbyists and unions rather than LEADING the country duing difficult times.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:31 PM   #147
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I guess I thought we were a better country than Mexico. With more freedoms and actual civil rights.

Guess not. We should strive to be just like them, I suppose.
Please ask yourself what is the only reason we do not inforse the laws already on the books

Hint there is only one possable answer.

Very powerful people want the illegal workers here.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:31 PM   #148
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What's the point of having an immigration policy or borders if we're not going to enforce it?

Why is it ok for Mexico to check for papers and deport people that do not have the proper identification to be in Mexico but not for the United States to do the same?
I really want to see a Congressman introduce a bill that mirrors Mexican immigration law as closely as possible, just to see how people react.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:34 PM   #149
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What is funny about people crying over this law is that cops already ask for proof of citizenship every time they stop any person in this country. It is called your ID. It is all these people have to show. If you don't show an ID in any state, they take you in until they figure out who you are. Arizona is just now taking the extra step of actually doing something about those that are found to be illegal aliens. I'm not sure what all of this racism/profiling talk is about as they are going to ask for those same papers no matter what happens with this law and they will do it for every race.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:36 PM   #150
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Some of you have no idea about the world you live in.

Your puppet masters want the cheap exploitable labor what is so hard to understand about that. I think it is as obvious as the nose on your face.
If you want to talk about cheap exploited labor, then look at the country you live in, MEXICO.

Or look at Indonesia, or the Philippines, or India, or China, or El Salvador or any number of other countries that have cheap labor and that the US buys exports from because of the cheap labor.

The US is so enticing to illigal migrants because they are paid much better than in Mexico.
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