Arizona Cops Threatened by Mexican Drug Cartel

[Homer Simpson]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Are you aware that those in the country with a work or student visa (or visiting for vacation) must have on body and ready to show if asked? That law has been around since the 1940s and the paper is the size of about a plane voucher/boarding pass.

Absolutely, as I posted above, that wasn't my point.

[El Guapo]

Originally Posted by ThatOneDenverMooseGuy

Nothing like an unscientific web poll to make your point. /rolleyes

Let me guess: as a Maverick, you think Palin is competent.

Negative. Nice try though!

[Hamrob]

Originally Posted by ThatOneDenverMooseGuy

And it still allows for profiling of anyone of a certain color. As long as that is a part of it -- even though the law specifically mentions that profiling is against the law, it's not hard to claim someone ran a red light or was going 5 MPH over or made an illegal lane shift -- I'm against it.

Understood. Personally, I think illegal immagrants are only a small part of the problem that exists here in the States.

The real problem is the rate at which impoverished citizens or illegal aliens for that matter are having kids.

If you take a look at the population growth in this country, you'll see that we are growing at a rate that we simply can't afford...primarily because 80% of our population growth comes from or are classified as coming from the "Poor".

We don't have a welfare system that can support it and adding costs such as free health care to this hugely increasing problem only intensifies the situation.

When are we going to quit being 100% PC in this country and have the balls to say...it's not o.k. to having kids when you can't afford to pay your own bills. When are we going to not be afraid to say, when you're on welfare and keep having 2, 3, 4 or more children...that it is WRONG!

Until we tackle the root cause (above) all these other arguments are pointless...really!

[Homer Simpson]

Originally Posted by Hamrob

When are we going to quit being 100% PC in this country and have the balls to say...it's not o.k. to having kids when you can't afford to pay your own bills. When are we going to not be afraid to say, when you're on welfare and keep having 2, 3, 4 or more children...that it is WRONG!

Exactly! China has the right idea...

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Hamrob

Understood. Personally, I think illegal immagrants are only a small part of the problem that exists here in the States.

The real problem is the rate at which impoverished citizens or illegal aliens for that matter are having kids.

If you take a look at the population growth in this country, you'll see that we are growing at a rate that we simply can't afford...primarily because 80% of our population growth comes from or are classified as coming from the "Poor".

We don't have a welfare system that can support it and adding costs such as free health care to this hugely increasing problem only intensifies the situation.

When are we going to quit being 100% PC in this country and have the balls to say...it's not o.k. to having kids when you can't afford to pay your own bills. When are we going to not be afraid to say, when you're on welfare and keep having 2, 3, 4 or more children...that it is WRONG!

Until we tackle the root cause (above) all these other arguments are pointless...really!

You better DUCK, 'cause the PC crowd will surely bash you for suggesting that we "trample" on someones' civil rights, even though they are using and abusing the system, because it's set up for abuse.

I agree that those who can't afford to feed themselves should not be burdening our system with their breeding. The numbers of recipients of "free/reduced" lunch and school fees in my daughters' school district is
ridiculous. As long as someone doesn't step up to the plate and passes legislation limiting the amount of "freebies" based on family size, this trend of breeding like rabbits will continue amongst the poor and hispanic population (legal and illegal).

It's simple: If ya can't support your family either "keep your dick in your pants or wear a g-damn condom". **** all that religious nonsense.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by ThatOneDenverMooseGuy

I never accused anyone of anything. An excellent attempt to pigeonhole me though. As usual, you're incapable of actually having a debate without resorting to shrill nonsense.

So tell me, Johnny, which is more likely? That SOME officers might take a law like this and interpret it their own way, in line with their own political beliefs? Or that NONE OF THEM will, regardless of their personal beliefs?

My problem with this law is that it could infringe on ONE PERSON'S civil rights. And that is NOT an America I want to live in.

You are afraid police officers will interpret it in their own way which could be with any law. I applied it to speeding tickets with police pulling over colored folks which is an example that you try to apply the AZ law with. So, if you cant trust AZ cops of the immigration law (which sheriff Joe has had in effect for 2 years with very few civil rights cases going to court) then why have them have a personality or what they are trained for? Sure, some cops make mistakes while patrolling but what makes this law different? These guys are trained to know the law and have been working on this one for months now to be ready for August (those that havent been already doing the fed law). You dont like it because of your political leanings and have no idea how to enforce the FEDERAL LAW! Federal troops or detectives cannot do what thousands are already doing and that is to protect the law. Remmeber, any law can infringe on ONE PERSON's civil rights. Either stop all laws or trust that the police will protect and serve.

[azbroncfan]

Originally Posted by Homer Simpson

No, that's not right. You can be a permanent resident without ever becoming a citizen. Perhaps it can be seen as nit picking but when people make sweeping comments along the lines of "if you ain't a citizen, see ya!" the ignorance scares me.

AKA "Green Card" there are way too many people with out it that don't pay taxes and other BS.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by ThatOneDenverMooseGuy

News flash for those who know nothing: the federal government "claims" that they're the only gov't entity that has a right to oversee immigration... because they're the only gov't entity that has the right to oversee immigration.

Please continue to blame Obama for a problem that's 40+ years old. Your ignorance makes me giggle.

News flash the fed have failed at their job and Obama is at the top and has the power to enfluence the justice department on their ignorant and stupid move to sue AZ.

At the very least Obama can be nuetral, but his rhetoric says he's not.

HE SUCKS.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

News flash the fed have failed at their job and Obama is at the top and has the power to enfluence the justice department on their ignorant and stupid move to sue AZ.

At the very least Obama can be nuetral, but his rhetoric says he's not.

HE SUCKS.

He doesn't suck but he is not presidential and is no leader. Far as I can tell he is still campaining

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by sisterhellfyre

Tombstone, I understand that you don't like Obama. But do you suppose that the Shrub, Clinton, or Bush Senior would have done any differently than sue Arizona?

When 20 states are already considering (or have adopted) resolutions about states rights and restricting the reach of the federals, there's just no way they could not take Arizona to court. That would make a huge statement and set a dangerous (for the federal govt) precedent about states rights. Preservation of the status quo is the modus vivendi for the majority of people in DC. Self-maintenance of the bureaucracy eventually becomes the reason for existence of any bureaucracy.

"It's very hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it." -- Upton Sinclair

I'm calling BS on all of this crap (fed gov stuff).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would the federal goverment exist without the states? That is, who serves who?

I'm of the opinion that the fed gov is becoming such a monstrosity that it is choosing to serve itself rather than the people or the states.

Yes, the fed gov is responsible for immigration and yes, they are failing at their job. Instead of suing AZ they should instead acknowledge their failure to get the job done and grant AZ temporary rights to enforce federal law and help AZ enforce the law.

The justice department can then have get their own house in order and do what they need to do to correct their crappy ways.

Instead, they are paying lawyers to sue a state. GREAT WORK FEDS!

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by baja

He doesn't suck but he is not presidential and is no leader. Far as I can tell he is still campaining

When a publicly chastises AZ for enforcing a law, and sides with a foreign power like Mexico.HE.HAS.LOST.MY.RESPECT.PERIOD.

[baja]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

When a publicly chastises AZ for enforcing a law, and sides with a foreign power like Mexico.HE.HAS.LOST.MY.RESPECT.PERIOD.

The issue with Az is they are assuming power that is reserved for the federal government, that is what the suit is about.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by baja

The issue with Az is they are assuming power that is reserved for the federal government, that is what the suit is about.

Yep. The question is whether or not states have the right to enact legislation that contradicts and/or supersedes the U.S. Constitution (in this case, the 14th Amendment).

[bronclvr]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

Yep. The question is whether or not states have the right to enact legislation that contradicts and/or supersedes the U.S. Constitution (in this case, the 14th Amendment).

Are there any other remedies or actions that Arizona could have taken to force the Federal Gov't to enforce Laws (already on the books) that affect this issue other than what they have done? It's obvous the issue is such a hot potatoe that no elected official (outside of Brewer) wants to touch it-

I realize that Obama has to make certain that he doesn't end up with a bunch of "rogue" States enacting their own Laws (Utah is moving forward with their own interpretation), but it sucks that no one can seem to get Laws enforced-

[baja]

Originally Posted by bronclvr

Are there any other remedies or actions that Arizona could have taken to force the Federal Gov't to enforce Laws (already on the books) that affect this issue other than what they have done? It's obvous the issue is such a hot potatoe that no elected official (outside of Brewer) wants to touch it-

I realize that Obama has to make certain that he doesn't end up with a bunch of "rogue" States enacting their own Laws (Utah is moving forward with their own interpretation), but it sucks that no one can seem to get Laws enforced-

what and loose all that cheap labor that has zero rights. Americans like their slaves.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by bronclvr

Are there any other remedies or actions that Arizona could have taken to force the Federal Gov't to enforce Laws (already on the books) that affect this issue other than what they have done? It's obvous the issue is such a hot potatoe that no elected official (outside of Brewer) wants to touch it-

I realize that Obama has to make certain that he doesn't end up with a bunch of "rogue" States enacting their own Laws (Utah is moving forward with their own interpretation), but it sucks that no one can seem to get Laws enforced-

What "I" think needs to be done in order to address the issue of illegal immigration... is to identify and prosecute any corporation that employs said illegal immigrants. Just like a weed in your backyard, if you don't go after the root of the problem, your efforts are wasted and/or will be minimally effective.

Enforcing existing federal laws would be a good start. But the reason for the lawsuit is to clarify whether or not a state law can take precedence over federal law. I honestly cannot imagine any scenario in which Arizona wins this lawsuit in a federal court... which means going to trial is most likely a waste of time and money.

[El Guapo]

Originally Posted by baja

The issue with Az is they are assuming power that is reserved for the federal government, that is what the suit is about.

Only because it is convenient and what the fed can use to file a lawsuit against the state. Obama had said himself that he thinks its racial profiling (before he even read the law of course...).

[baja]

Originally Posted by Maverick_7

Only because it is convenient and what the fed can use to file a lawsuit against the state. Obama had said himself that he thinks its racial profiling (before he even read the law of course...).

than why not prosacute that angle. Racial profiling is against the law too.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

What "I" think needs to be done in order to address the issue of illegal immigration... is to identify and prosecute any corporation that employs said illegal immigrants. Just like a weed in your backyard, if you don't go after the root of the problem, your efforts are wasted and/or will be minimally effective.

Enforcing existing federal laws would be a good start. But the reason for the lawsuit is to clarify whether or not a state law can take precedence over federal law. I honestly cannot imagine any scenario in which Arizona wins this lawsuit in a federal court... which means going to trial is most likely a waste of time and money.

Yes yes yes yes yes. THIS.

If you don't take the job opportunities away, I don't care if all 50 states enact a law like Arizona's. They'll be half measures.

Kill off what draws them to this country. Period.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

If you drive, and most of you do, you need your papers. If you want to drink or buy alcohol in a public establishment, you need your papers. Fly aircraft? Papers please. Health insurance? Better bring your papers. Employment? Fill out this I-9 and two forms of papers please.

fine then if you happen to find out they aren't legal then deal with it. But you don't pull over, ever, to ask who you are just for the sake of doing it. We only get stopped in this country when we do something wrong. Go ahead and make papers needed to get things done. Just dont be able to walk up to someone and ask them out of the blue.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

What "I" think needs to be done in order to address the issue of illegal immigration... is to identify and prosecute any corporation that employs said illegal immigrants. Just like a weed in your backyard, if you don't go after the root of the problem, your efforts are wasted and/or will be minimally effective.

Enforcing existing federal laws would be a good start. But the reason for the lawsuit is to clarify whether or not a state law can take precedence over federal law. I honestly cannot imagine any scenario in which Arizona wins this lawsuit in a federal court... which means going to trial is most likely a waste of time and money.

exactly. I don't want my latino friends telling me stories about how they get pulled over more because of stuff like this. Police love to stop people it just gives them something more to abuse IMO.

Make it to where you cant have bank account, cant cash checks, can't buy insurance, can't get a job, can't put kids in school, can't use health system, can't do crap. Those things I dont mind showing my ID for.

[cutthemdown]

no way though will i want to live in a country were we get stopped and asked if we are American. I'm sorry Mr Hernandez but your papers are not in order!!!!! WHAT!!!! CHECK them again!!!!

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

no way though will i want to live in a country were we get stopped and asked if we are American. I'm sorry Mr Hernandez but your papers are not in order!!!!! WHAT!!!! CHECK them again!!!!

why do u keep coming back to this? It isnt Nazi Germany. You get asked when you do something wrong. So dont worry the gastapo isnt coming after you. If you are not a citizen, you better keep the mandatory papers on you as the law states from back in the 40s. Nothing new just finally bringing the law to the land. Cant wait until we have a proposition that will stand up to the courts unlike the one we had 15 years ago.

[Champagne Powder]

My hero

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

why do u keep coming back to this? It isnt Nazi Germany. You get asked when you do something wrong. So dont worry the gastapo isnt coming after you. If you are not a citizen, you better keep the mandatory papers on you as the law states from back in the 40s. Nothing new just finally bringing the law to the land. Cant wait until we have a proposition that will stand up to the courts unlike the one we had 15 years ago.

Or you get asked when your skin is the wrong color. Why do you think that would never ever ever ever happen? Do you not live in reality with the rest of us?