eyewitness account from the peace flotilla - The Orange Mane

mhgaffney · 06-17-2010, 03:31 PM

Here's an eyewitness account from the peace flotilla.

Read it and you'll begin to understand how you were abused by the media. There were no paint balls. You were lied to.

Notice the Israelis shot people in the head execution style.

They also had little booklets with photos and names. The Israelis were looking for specific people who were to be liquidated.

It was the same in 1948 when the IDF attacked the Palestinian villages. They had detailed maps of each village -- with lists of names -- Arabs to be liquidated.

The Israelis make the Nazis look like amateurs.

June 16, 2010

What Kevin Neish Saw

Eyewitness to the Israeli Assault on the Mavi Marmara

By DAVE LINDORFF

http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff06162010.html

Kevin Neish of Victoria, British Columbia, didn’t know he was a celebrity until he was about to board a flight from Istanbul to Ottawa. “This Arab woman wearing a beautiful outfit suddenly ran up to me crying, ‘It’s you! From Arab TV! You’re famous!’” he recalls with a laugh. “I didn’t know what she was talking about, but she told me, ‘I saw you flipping through the Israeli commando’s book! It’s being aired over and over!’”

A soft-spoken teacher and former civilian engineer with the Canadian Department of Defense, Neish realized then that a video taken by an Arab TV cameraman in the midst of the Israeli assault on the Freedom Flotilla to Gaza of him flipping through a booklet had been transmitted before the Israelis blocked all electronic signals from the flotilla. The booklet had pictures and profiles of all the passengers, and he'd found it in the backpack of an Israeli Defense Force commando.

Neish, 53, was on the second deck of the flotilla’s lead ship, the Turkish Mavi Marmara, with a good view of the stern, when the IDF, in the early morning darkness of May 31, began its assault with percussion grenades, tear gas and a hail of bullets. He then moved to the fourth deck in an enclosed stairwell, from which he watched took photographs as casualties were carried down past him to a makeshift medical station. Several IDF commandos, captured by the passengers and crew, were also brought past him.

“I saw them carrying this one IDF guy down,” he recalls. “He looked terrified, like he thought he was going to be killed. But when a big Turkish guy, who had seen seriously injured passengers who had been shot by the IDF, charged over and tried to hit the commando, the Turkish aid workers pushed him off and pinned him to the wall. They protected this Israeli soldier.”

That was when he found the backpack which the soldier had dropped. “I figured I’d look inside and see what he was carrying,” Neish says. “And inside was this kind of flip-book. It was full of photos and names in English and Hebrew of who was on all the ships. The booklet also had a detailed diagram of the decks of the Mavi Marmara.”

Meanwhile, he says, more and more people were being carried down the stairs from the mayhem above—people who'd been shot, and people who were dying or people already dead. “I took detailed photos of the dead and wounded with my camera,” he says, adding, “There were several guys who had two neat bullet holes side by side on the side of their head--clearly they were executed.”

Neish smuggled his photos out of Israel to Turkey despite his arrest on the ship and imprisonment in Israel for several days. “I pulled out the memory card, tossed my camera and anything I had on me that had anything to do with electronics, and then kept moving the chip around so it wouldn’t be found,” he says. “The Israelis took all the cameras and computers. They were smashing some and keeping others. I put the chip in my mouth under my tongue, between my butt cheeks, in my sock, everywhere, to keep them from finding it,” he says. He finally handed it to a Turk who was leaving for a flight home on a Turkish airline. He says the card ended up in the hands of an organization called Free Gaza, and he has seen some of his pictures published, so he knows they made it out successfully.

Neish says that claims that the Israeli commandos were just armed with paint guns and 9 mm pistols are “Bull****--at one point when I was in the stairwell, a commando opened a hatch above, stuck in a machine gun, and started firing. Bullets were bouncing all over the place. If the guy had gotten to look in and see where he was shooting, I’d have been dead, but two Turkish guys in the stairwell, who had short lengths of chain with them that they had taken from the access points to the lifeboats, stood to the side of the hatch and whipped them up at the barrell. I don’t know if they were trying to hit the commando or to use them to snatch away the gun, but the Israeli backed off, and they slammed and locked the hatch.”

“I never saw a single paint gun, or a sign of a fired paint ball!” he says.
He also didn't see any guns in the hands of people who were on the ship. “In the whole time I was there on the ship, I never saw a single weapon in the hands of the crew or the aid workers,” he says. Indeed, Neish, who originally had been on a smaller 70-foot yacht called the Challenger II, had transferred to the Mavi Marmara after a stop in Cyprus, because his boat had been sabatoged by Israeli agents (a claim verified by the Israeli government), making it impossible to steer. “When we came aboard the big boat, I was frisked and my bag was inspected for weapons,” he says. “Being an engineer, I of course had a pocket knife, but they took that and tossed it into the ocean. Nobody was allowed to have any weapons on this voyage. They were very careful about that.”

What he did see during the IDF assault was severe bullet wounds. “In addition to several people I saw who were killed, I saw several dozen wounded people. There was one older guy who was just propped up against the wall with a huge hole in his chest. He died as I was taking his picture.”

Neish says he saw many of the 9 who were known to have been killed, and of the 40 who were wounded, and adds, “There were many more who were wounded, too, but less seriously. In the Israeli prison, I saw people with knife wounds and broken bones. Some were hiding their injuries so they wouldn’t be taken away from the others.” He also says, “Initially there were reports that 16 on the boat had been killed. The medical station said 16. There was a suspicion that some bodies may have been thrown overboard. But what people think now is that the the other seven who are missing, since we’re not hearing from families, may have been Israeli spies.”

Once the Israeli commandos had secured control of the Mavi Marmara, Neish says the ship’s passengers and crew were rounded up, with the men put in one area on deck, and the women put below in another area. The men were told to squat, and had their hands bound with plastic cuffs, which Neish says were pulled so tight that his wrists were cut and his hands swelled up and turned purple (he is still suffering nerve damage from the experience, which his doctor in Canada says he hopes will gradually repair on its own).

“They told us to be quiet,” he says. “But at one point this Turkish imam stood up and started singing a call to prayer. Everybody was dead quiet--even the Israelis. But after about ten seconds, this Israeli officer stomped over through the squatting people, pulled out his pistol and pointed at the guy’s head, yelling ‘Shut up!’ in English. The imam looked at him directly and just kept singing! I thought, Jesus Christ, he’s gonna kill him! Then I thought, well, this is what I’m here for, I guess, so I stood up. The officer wheeled around and pointed his gun at my head. The imam finished his song and sat down, and then I sat down.”

While the commandeered vessels were sailed to the Israeli port of Ashdot, the captives were left without food or water. “All we were given were some chocolate bars that the Israelis pilfered from the ship’s stores,” says Neish. “You had to grovel to get to go to the bathroom, and many people had to just go in their pants.”

Things didn’t get much better once the passengers were transferred to an Israeli prison. He and the other prisoners with him, who hadn’t eaten for more than half a day, were tossed a frozen block of bread and some cucumbers.

On the second day, someone from the Canadian embassy came around, calling out his name. “It turned out he’d been going to every cell looking for me,” says Neish. “My daughter had been frantically telling the Canadian government I was in the flotilla. Even though the Israelis had my name and knew where I was, they weren’t telling the Canadian embassy people. In fact the Canadians--and my daughter--thought I was dead, because people had said I’d been near the initial assault. The good thing is that as they went around calling out for me, they discovered two Arab-born Canadians that they hadn’t known were there.”

“Eventually they got to my cell and I answered them. The embassy official said, ‘You’re Kevin? You’re supposed to be dead.’”

After being held for a few days, there was a rush to move everyone to the Ben Gurion airport for a flight to Turkey. “It turned out that Israeli lawyers had brought our case to the Supreme Court, challenging the legality of our capture on international waters. There was a chance that the court would order the IDF to put us back on our ships and let us go, so the government wanted to get us out of Israel and moot the case. But two guys were hauled off, probably by Mossad (the Israeli intelligence agency). So we all said, ‘No. We don’t go unless you bring them back.’”

The two men were returned and were allowed to leave with the rest of the group.

“I honestly never thought the Israelis would board the ship,” says Neish. “I thought we’d get into Gaza. I mean, I went as part of the Free Gaza Movement, and they had made prior attempts, with some getting in, and some getting boarded or rammed, but this time it was a big flotilla. I figured we’d be stopped, and maybe searched. My boat, the Challenger II, only had dignitaries on board including three German MPs, and then Lt. Col. Ann Wright and myself.

At one point in the Israeli prison, all the violence finally got to this man who had witnessed more death and mayhem than many active duty US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan. “I broke down and started crying,” he admits. “This big Turkish guy came over and asked me, ‘What’s wrong?’ I said, ‘Sixteen people died.’”

“He said to me, ‘No, they died for a wonderful cause. They’re happy. You just go out and tell your story.’”

DAVE LINDORFF is a founding member of the new independent collectively-owned, journalist-run online newspaper ThisCantBeHappening.net

W*GS · 06-17-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

The Israelis make the Nazis look like amateurs.

How come you weren't on this "peace flotilla"?

Actually, it's Hamas that looks like Nazis. They have the same opinion, from the same sources, regarding Jews that the Nazis did.

And you support them. Why?

mhgaffney · 06-17-2010, 07:32 PM

W*gs,

I have defended Israel's right to exist -- over the years. It all depends on which Israel we are talking about.

I also believe in reconciliation. However, before reconciliation can happen there has to be a period of truth telling. There has to be an acknowledgement by Zionists of the injustices that were done to the Palestinians, whose homeland is Palestine.

There also has to be genuine remorse -- a statement that what was done was morally wrong.

Then, there has to be a sincere attempt to make amends.

Does anyone see this happening? No, we are far from it. The Jewish scholar Ilan Pappe who wrote a definitive book about the untold history (THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE) had to flee Israel for his own safety.

Why is this? Because, W*gs, your compadres in Israel are in denial. This is the problem.

Maybe you can suggest how we can break through this wall...hm??

mhgaffney · 06-17-2010, 07:33 PM

If anyone has found hard evidence that paint balls were used -- please post it.

The Lone Bolt · 06-17-2010, 07:42 PM

Are there other eyewitnessess who were on the ship who can confirm this account? Any supporting physical evidence?

mhgaffney · 06-17-2010, 07:46 PM

The Israelis took all of the cell phones, camcorders, and cameras from the activists. Most of the footage of what happened is in Israel's hands -- and by now probably has been destroyed.

Other eyewitness accounts of the people on the ships -- are very similar to this one.

If you search the web you can find them. Oh I forgot. You don't do research.

The Lone Bolt · 06-17-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

The Israelis took all of the cell phones, camcorders, and cameras from the activists. Most of the footage of what happened is in Israel's hands -- and by now probably has been destroyed.

Other eyewitness accounts of the people on the ships -- are very similar to this one.

If you search the web you can find them. Oh I forgot. You don't do research.

Ouch! I guess I'm just not the investigoogler that you are Gaff.

mhgaffney · 06-17-2010, 07:59 PM

Stay tuned, Dolt.

In the near future I will be posting a new piece on 9/11.

It will be a stunner.

You saw it here first.

The Lone Bolt · 06-17-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Stay tuned, Dolt.

In the near future I will be posting a new piece on 9/11.

It will be a stunner.

You saw it here first.

You've said that about the last 20 pieces on 9-11 you've posted. "Explosive" you usually say, but they all end up being regurgitated nonsense about WTC 7, nanothermite, free-fall speed, etc.

Face it, the 9-11 "truth" movement have nothing new to offer. You have reached a dead end.

DenverBrit · 06-17-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhgaffney

Stay tuned, Dolt.

In the near future I will be posting a new piece on 9/11.

It will be a stunner.

You saw it here first.

The only stunner is how batsh*t crazy you are.

When you have actionable evidence, take it to the representatives of the families and let them take it to court.
Tried that yet? Can you point at any evidence you clowns have concocted that has been used in a civil or criminal action against the US government?

So far, not one of you Troofers have brought anything to the table other than self promotion and attempts to cash in on the tragedy.

You're a pathetic group of unqualified leaches signing off on each other's money making schemes.

You're disgusting!

watermock · 06-17-2010, 10:18 PM

/1)

hal 9000:
Just came upon this article on 9/11 blogger. Very interesting indeed -

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment

"Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001. A December 2000 WTC property assessment described required renovation work to be completed within one year, upon steel columns within elevator shafts of both WTC towers that was immediately pending or already underway.

Terror devastates A/E/C firms

12 employees of Turner Construction were located in an office in the third subbasement of Tower 1, the north tower. Turner had been performing renovation work in various parts of the center and had occupied various office spaces."

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment

The CEO of the company is now the Mayor of Dallas and has connections to George W. Bush -

"The CEO for Turner Construction Company appointed in 1999, was Tom Leppert, who joined the board of Turner in 1998, is currently the mayor of Dallas, Texas and who has ties with former president George W. Bush and Carlos M. Gutierrez, Secretary of the U.S. Department of Commerce. The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a bureau of the Department of Commerce, was assigned to investigate the collapses of the WTC 1,2 and 7.

Thomas C. Leppert Named To Succeed E.T. Gravette, Jr. As Chairman Of The Turner Corporation

http://www.turnerconstruction.com/co...?d=1222&p=1153

PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT FOR MAYOR LEPPERT

President George W. Bush appointed Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert to the President’s Commission on White House Fellows.

http://www.tomleppert.com/PR/docs/fe...commission.pdf

Mayor Leppert meets with Bush

Dallas Business Journal

Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert, along with a group of 11 other mayors, met with President George W. Bush and Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez Wednesday at the White House to discuss a free trade agreement with the South American countries of Peru and Colombia.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/st...26.html?jst=m_... "

_CREATIONIST_:
Quote from: hal 9000 on April 24, 2009, 01:29:10 PM

Just came upon this article on 9/11 blogger. Very interesting indeed -

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment

"Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001. A December 2000 WTC property assessment described required renovation work to be completed within one year, upon steel columns within elevator shafts of both WTC towers that was immediately pending or already underway.

Terror devastates A/E/C firms

12 employees of Turner Construction were located in an office in the third subbasement of Tower 1, the north tower. Turner had been performing renovation work in various parts of the center and had occupied various office spaces."

http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment

The CEO of the company is now the Mayor of Dallas and has connections to George W. Bush -

"The CEO for Turner Construction Company appointed in 1999, was Tom Leppert, who joined the board of Turner in 1998, is currently the mayor of Dallas, Texas and who has ties with former president George W. Bush and Carlos M. Gutierrez, Secretary of the U.S. Department of Commerce. The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a bureau of the Department of Commerce, was assigned to investigate the collapses of the WTC 1,2 and 7.

Thomas C. Leppert Named To Succeed E.T. Gravette, Jr. As Chairman Of The Turner Corporation

http://www.turnerconstruction.com/co...?d=1222&p=1153

PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT FOR MAYOR LEPPERT

President George W. Bush appointed Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert to the President’s Commission on White House Fellows.

http://www.tomleppert.com/PR/docs/fe...commission.pdf

Mayor Leppert meets with Bush

Dallas Business Journal

Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert, along with a group of 11 other mayors, met with President George W. Bush and Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez Wednesday at the White House to discuss a free trade agreement with the South American countries of Peru and Colombia.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/st...26.html?jst=m_... "

good find, copied and will post on other forums.

hal 9000:
I couldn't help but notice the irony of this Leppert guy being the mayor of Dallas, being that the mayor of Dallas at the time of the Kennedy assassination was one Earl Cabell, brother of Charles Cabell who was fired by Kennedy as # 2 man in the CIA after the Bay of Pigs debacle.

Another oddity is that Leppert was called to the White House, along with 11 other U.S. mayors, to meet with Bush and Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez to "discuss a free trade agreement with the South American countries of Peru and Colombia."

Why would they call this guy in to help negotiate some trade deal between the U.S. and two South American countries?

I can't help but be reminded of JFK assassination trial defendant Clay Shaw, who was prosecuted by New Orleans D. A. Jim Garrison in the late 1960's -

"Clay Shaw was the manager and director of the International Trade Mart in downtown New Orleans, which he established in the city in 1962.
In 1962 and 1963, he was a member of the International House in New Orleans and the World Trade Development Committee. In 1958-63, he was a member of the board of directors of Permindex. In 1963, he was living in the French Quarter, New Orleans. On August 14, 1974, Clay Shaw died of lung cancer in New Orleans. More Info.
*Permindex was a Swiss corporation primarily involved in setting up industrial expositions and international trade for American manufacturers. Permindex was an offshoot of the World Trade Center, which Clay Shaw was a director of. The Centro Mondiale Commerciale(World Trade Center) was created in Montreal, Canada, then moved to Rome in 1961. In 1962, the Italian government expelled the World Trade Center and "Permindex from Italy for subversive intelligence activity." They had refused to disclose the origins of large amounts of money, and there was no record of real commercial transactions. After both companies were kicked out of Italy and Switzerland in 1962, they set up shop in Johannesburg, South Africa. Permindex may have been involved in the JFK assassination. *From the book On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison. He also wrote The Star Spangled Contract. From 1962-2008, there have been World Trade Center buildings in New Orleans and Dallas."

There just seem to be some very odd things going on with this Tom Leppert character and the Turner Construction company, things of a spook like nature is what I mean.

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watermock · 06-17-2010, 10:29 PM

There ya go gaff, I already laid it out for you a year ago.

watermock · 06-17-2010, 10:31 PM

check the links.

watermock · 06-17-2010, 10:34 PM

Thomas C. Leppert Named To Succeed E.T. Gravette, Jr. As Chairman Of The Turner Corporation

Designation By The Board Of Directors Effective October 1, 1999 At Close Of Mr. Gravette’s Term

NEW YORK, June 11, 1999 – The Turner Corporation (NYSE: TUR), the nation’s leading general builder, announced its board of directors’ selection of Thomas C. Leppert as chairman and CEO-designate to succeed E.T. “Bud” Gravette, Jr., as chairman and CEO of The Turner Corporation.

Mr. Leppert’s appointment as chairman and CEO will be effective October 1, 1999.

Currently chairman of the board’s Committee on Long-Range Planning, Mr. Leppert joined The Turner Corporation board in May 1998. He presently serves as trustee of the James Campbell Estate, a trust based in Honolulu, Hawaii. Previously, Mr. Leppert served as vice chairman of the Bank of Hawaii and Pacific Century Financial Corp., President and CEO of Castle & Cooke Hawaii, and a principal with the consulting firm, McKinsey & Co., Inc.

Commenting on the board’s selection of Mr. Leppert as his successor as chairman, Mr. Gravette said: “I am extremely pleased that Tom Leppert will succeed me as chairman and CEO of The Turner Corporation. His service on the board, particularly his leadership of the Long-Range Planning Committee, distinguishes him as an individual with an impressive professional experience and a broad business and financial background. Tom’s perspectives on significant strategic issues relating to this Corporation’s growth are invaluable.”

“On the threshold of the next century, we need a strong, well-experienced board and a skilled operating management team to realize the full potential of The Turner Corporation’s resources. I am confident that Tom, working with the board and Robert E. Fee, chief operating officer of The Turner Corporation and president and chief executive officer of Turner Construction Company, will continue the substantial progress made that restored The Turner Corporation to profitability and strong revenue growth. He has a clear vision of what this firm can accomplish.”

Mr. Gravette noted that last September he acceded to the board’s request that he remain as chairman and CEO for a transitional period of two years as the positive effects of the Corporation’s reorganization gained momentum throughout the organization.

“Since 1996, our team has proven that it can grow profits, revenue and market share and successfully enter new market segments as the nation’s leading general builder. The Turner Corporation and its subsidiary, Turner Construction Company, are now led by a tested, cost- conscious, profit-oriented senior management team. And as a tangible recognition of The Turner Corporation’s coming of age, our shares began trading on the New

Otis had run those elevators for 50 years.

The Lone Bolt · 06-18-2010, 08:15 AM

Yep, same old regurgitated nonsense we've heard for years.

As I said, the "truth" movement has shot their wad. They have nothing left.

orangeatheist · 06-18-2010, 10:23 AM

Just start agreeing with Gaffe. If you just ooh and ahh at everything he posts my bet is he'll eventually go away. Right now he has an audience and he can play the lone voice crying in the wilderness. If he thinks he's stooged everyone, he'll go to greener pastures. Stop asking questions; stop arguing; just post "Nice one, Mr. Gaffney. Good job." If that's all he gets, he'll go away.

Requiem · 06-18-2010, 11:23 AM

Just curious, do any of you guys have anything to say or counter what Gaff provided in regards to the flotilla decable?

DBruleU · 06-18-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

Just curious, do any of you guys have anything to say or counter what Gaff provided in regards to the flotilla decable?

No, because Israel is evil and he's right. Way to go Gaff. GOod Job! High Five homie!

DenverBrit · 06-18-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

Just curious, do any of you guys have anything to say or counter what Gaff provided in regards to the flotilla decable?

Yes, Gaff will discount any eyewitness account that isn't anti Israeli.

Requiem · 06-18-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBruleU

No, because Israel is evil and he's right. Way to go Gaff. GOod Job! High Five homie!

Hard to argue against this guys first hand account of the situation if you ask me. What is your reason for not believing this man on the flotilla?

DBruleU · 06-18-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

Hard to argue against this guys first hand account of the situation if you ask me. What is your reason for not believing this man on the flotilla?

The fact that Gaff calls it fact is enough for me not to believe it. Anyone on that Flotilla can make a ton of accusations and we would never know for sure if they are telling the truth. But I typically don't believe terrorist sympathizers...apparently you do the opposite of me.

Requiem · 06-18-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBruleU

The fact that Gaff calls it fact is enough for me not to believe it. Anyone on that Flotilla can make a ton of accusations and we would never know for sure if they are telling the truth. But I typically don't believe terrorist sympathizers...apparently you do the opposite of me.

My belief in the truth of this persons testimony has nothing to do with what Gaffney believes. And you could really spare me the last sentence. The photos Neish took are readily available online. Are you saying those are fake and doctored as well? Just because you have a disdain for Gaffney doesn't negate the experience of Neish and what he went through. Must be tough being naive.

DenverBrit · 06-18-2010, 02:18 PM

Personally, I don't see anything to dispute at this point in time. I'm sure any investigation will be questioned, depending upon the outcome.

The fact is, Israel is heavy handed with anyone perceived to be threatening their security.
So it doesn't surprise me that violence took place on a ship trying to break a blockade that has been in place for years and has a history of violent encounters and arms smuggling.
Honestly, did anyone think for one moment that the Israelis would allow the ship to break the blockade without a military confrontation?
Of course, part of the objective was to have such a confrontation.
I wouldn't advise 'peace activists' to wander into Taliban controlled areas either; the end result is equally predictable.

DBruleU · 06-18-2010, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Requiem

My belief in the truth of this persons testimony has nothing to do with what Gaffney believes. And you could really spare me the last sentence. The photos Neish took are readily available online. Are you saying those are fake and doctored as well? Just because you have a disdain for Gaffney doesn't negate the experience of Neish and what he went through. Must be tough being naive.

Who's naive? You take a bunch of "peace activists" who sympathize with terrorist organizations at their word. I know you think of yourself as a highly intelligent fellow, and I'm just a low-life, but c'mon. And you can spare me your last sentence.

Popcorn Sutton · 06-18-2010, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBruleU

Who's naive? You take a bunch of "peace activists" who sympathize with terrorist organizations at their word. I know you think of yourself as a highly intelligent fellow, and I'm just a low-life, but c'mon. And you can spare me your last sentence.

DB, not disagreeing with you at all. Just curious how you determined that these activists are terrorist sympathizers? Is it not possible that they are simply trying to get food, water, toys etc. to people in need?

06-17-2010, 03:31 PM	#1
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,780	eyewitness account from the peace flotilla Here's an eyewitness account from the peace flotilla. Read it and you'll begin to understand how you were abused by the media. There were no paint balls. You were lied to. Notice the Israelis shot people in the head execution style. They also had little booklets with photos and names. The Israelis were looking for specific people who were to be liquidated. It was the same in 1948 when the IDF attacked the Palestinian villages. They had detailed maps of each village -- with lists of names -- Arabs to be liquidated. The Israelis make the Nazis look like amateurs. June 16, 2010 What Kevin Neish Saw Eyewitness to the Israeli Assault on the Mavi Marmara By DAVE LINDORFF http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff06162010.html Kevin Neish of Victoria, British Columbia, didn’t know he was a celebrity until he was about to board a flight from Istanbul to Ottawa. “This Arab woman wearing a beautiful outfit suddenly ran up to me crying, ‘It’s you! From Arab TV! You’re famous!’” he recalls with a laugh. “I didn’t know what she was talking about, but she told me, ‘I saw you flipping through the Israeli commando’s book! It’s being aired over and over!’” A soft-spoken teacher and former civilian engineer with the Canadian Department of Defense, Neish realized then that a video taken by an Arab TV cameraman in the midst of the Israeli assault on the Freedom Flotilla to Gaza of him flipping through a booklet had been transmitted before the Israelis blocked all electronic signals from the flotilla. The booklet had pictures and profiles of all the passengers, and he'd found it in the backpack of an Israeli Defense Force commando. Neish, 53, was on the second deck of the flotilla’s lead ship, the Turkish Mavi Marmara, with a good view of the stern, when the IDF, in the early morning darkness of May 31, began its assault with percussion grenades, tear gas and a hail of bullets. He then moved to the fourth deck in an enclosed stairwell, from which he watched took photographs as casualties were carried down past him to a makeshift medical station. Several IDF commandos, captured by the passengers and crew, were also brought past him. “I saw them carrying this one IDF guy down,” he recalls. “He looked terrified, like he thought he was going to be killed. But when a big Turkish guy, who had seen seriously injured passengers who had been shot by the IDF, charged over and tried to hit the commando, the Turkish aid workers pushed him off and pinned him to the wall. They protected this Israeli soldier.” That was when he found the backpack which the soldier had dropped. “I figured I’d look inside and see what he was carrying,” Neish says. “And inside was this kind of flip-book. It was full of photos and names in English and Hebrew of who was on all the ships. The booklet also had a detailed diagram of the decks of the Mavi Marmara.” Meanwhile, he says, more and more people were being carried down the stairs from the mayhem above—people who'd been shot, and people who were dying or people already dead. “I took detailed photos of the dead and wounded with my camera,” he says, adding, “There were several guys who had two neat bullet holes side by side on the side of their head--clearly they were executed.” Neish smuggled his photos out of Israel to Turkey despite his arrest on the ship and imprisonment in Israel for several days. “I pulled out the memory card, tossed my camera and anything I had on me that had anything to do with electronics, and then kept moving the chip around so it wouldn’t be found,” he says. “The Israelis took all the cameras and computers. They were smashing some and keeping others. I put the chip in my mouth under my tongue, between my butt cheeks, in my sock, everywhere, to keep them from finding it,” he says. He finally handed it to a Turk who was leaving for a flight home on a Turkish airline. He says the card ended up in the hands of an organization called Free Gaza, and he has seen some of his pictures published, so he knows they made it out successfully. Neish says that claims that the Israeli commandos were just armed with paint guns and 9 mm pistols are “Bull****--at one point when I was in the stairwell, a commando opened a hatch above, stuck in a machine gun, and started firing. Bullets were bouncing all over the place. If the guy had gotten to look in and see where he was shooting, I’d have been dead, but two Turkish guys in the stairwell, who had short lengths of chain with them that they had taken from the access points to the lifeboats, stood to the side of the hatch and whipped them up at the barrell. I don’t know if they were trying to hit the commando or to use them to snatch away the gun, but the Israeli backed off, and they slammed and locked the hatch.” “I never saw a single paint gun, or a sign of a fired paint ball!” he says. He also didn't see any guns in the hands of people who were on the ship. “In the whole time I was there on the ship, I never saw a single weapon in the hands of the crew or the aid workers,” he says. Indeed, Neish, who originally had been on a smaller 70-foot yacht called the Challenger II, had transferred to the Mavi Marmara after a stop in Cyprus, because his boat had been sabatoged by Israeli agents (a claim verified by the Israeli government), making it impossible to steer. “When we came aboard the big boat, I was frisked and my bag was inspected for weapons,” he says. “Being an engineer, I of course had a pocket knife, but they took that and tossed it into the ocean. Nobody was allowed to have any weapons on this voyage. They were very careful about that.” What he did see during the IDF assault was severe bullet wounds. “In addition to several people I saw who were killed, I saw several dozen wounded people. There was one older guy who was just propped up against the wall with a huge hole in his chest. He died as I was taking his picture.” Neish says he saw many of the 9 who were known to have been killed, and of the 40 who were wounded, and adds, “There were many more who were wounded, too, but less seriously. In the Israeli prison, I saw people with knife wounds and broken bones. Some were hiding their injuries so they wouldn’t be taken away from the others.” He also says, “Initially there were reports that 16 on the boat had been killed. The medical station said 16. There was a suspicion that some bodies may have been thrown overboard. But what people think now is that the the other seven who are missing, since we’re not hearing from families, may have been Israeli spies.” Once the Israeli commandos had secured control of the Mavi Marmara, Neish says the ship’s passengers and crew were rounded up, with the men put in one area on deck, and the women put below in another area. The men were told to squat, and had their hands bound with plastic cuffs, which Neish says were pulled so tight that his wrists were cut and his hands swelled up and turned purple (he is still suffering nerve damage from the experience, which his doctor in Canada says he hopes will gradually repair on its own). “They told us to be quiet,” he says. “But at one point this Turkish imam stood up and started singing a call to prayer. Everybody was dead quiet--even the Israelis. But after about ten seconds, this Israeli officer stomped over through the squatting people, pulled out his pistol and pointed at the guy’s head, yelling ‘Shut up!’ in English. The imam looked at him directly and just kept singing! I thought, Jesus Christ, he’s gonna kill him! Then I thought, well, this is what I’m here for, I guess, so I stood up. The officer wheeled around and pointed his gun at my head. The imam finished his song and sat down, and then I sat down.” While the commandeered vessels were sailed to the Israeli port of Ashdot, the captives were left without food or water. “All we were given were some chocolate bars that the Israelis pilfered from the ship’s stores,” says Neish. “You had to grovel to get to go to the bathroom, and many people had to just go in their pants.” Things didn’t get much better once the passengers were transferred to an Israeli prison. He and the other prisoners with him, who hadn’t eaten for more than half a day, were tossed a frozen block of bread and some cucumbers. On the second day, someone from the Canadian embassy came around, calling out his name. “It turned out he’d been going to every cell looking for me,” says Neish. “My daughter had been frantically telling the Canadian government I was in the flotilla. Even though the Israelis had my name and knew where I was, they weren’t telling the Canadian embassy people. In fact the Canadians--and my daughter--thought I was dead, because people had said I’d been near the initial assault. The good thing is that as they went around calling out for me, they discovered two Arab-born Canadians that they hadn’t known were there.” “Eventually they got to my cell and I answered them. The embassy official said, ‘You’re Kevin? You’re supposed to be dead.’” After being held for a few days, there was a rush to move everyone to the Ben Gurion airport for a flight to Turkey. “It turned out that Israeli lawyers had brought our case to the Supreme Court, challenging the legality of our capture on international waters. There was a chance that the court would order the IDF to put us back on our ships and let us go, so the government wanted to get us out of Israel and moot the case. But two guys were hauled off, probably by Mossad (the Israeli intelligence agency). So we all said, ‘No. We don’t go unless you bring them back.’” The two men were returned and were allowed to leave with the rest of the group. “I honestly never thought the Israelis would board the ship,” says Neish. “I thought we’d get into Gaza. I mean, I went as part of the Free Gaza Movement, and they had made prior attempts, with some getting in, and some getting boarded or rammed, but this time it was a big flotilla. I figured we’d be stopped, and maybe searched. My boat, the Challenger II, only had dignitaries on board including three German MPs, and then Lt. Col. Ann Wright and myself. At one point in the Israeli prison, all the violence finally got to this man who had witnessed more death and mayhem than many active duty US troops in Iraq or Afghanistan. “I broke down and started crying,” he admits. “This big Turkish guy came over and asked me, ‘What’s wrong?’ I said, ‘Sixteen people died.’” “He said to me, ‘No, they died for a wonderful cause. They’re happy. You just go out and tell your story.’” DAVE LINDORFF is a founding member of the new independent collectively-owned, journalist-run online newspaper ThisCantBeHappening.net

06-18-2010, 08:15 AM	#15
The Lone Bolt Ring of Famer GO CHARGERS!!!! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Boredom Capital of the Universe (Everett, WA) Posts: 2,872	Yep, same old regurgitated nonsense we've heard for years. As I said, the "truth" movement has shot their wad. They have nothing left. Last edited by The Lone Bolt; 06-18-2010 at 08:18 AM..

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06-17-2010, 07:32 PM	#3
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,780	Wgs, I have defended Israel's right to exist -- over the years. It all depends on which Israel we are talking about. I also believe in reconciliation. However, before reconciliation can happen there has to be a period of truth telling. There has to be an acknowledgement by Zionists of the injustices that were done to the Palestinians, whose homeland is Palestine. There also has to be genuine remorse -- a statement that what was done was morally wrong. Then, there has to be a sincere attempt to make amends. Does anyone see this happening? No, we are far from it. The Jewish scholar Ilan Pappe who wrote a definitive book about the untold history (THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE) had to flee Israel for his own safety. Why is this? Because, Wgs, your compadres in Israel are in denial. This is the problem. Maybe you can suggest how we can break through this wall...hm??

06-17-2010, 07:33 PM	#4
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,780	If anyone has found hard evidence that paint balls were used -- please post it.

06-17-2010, 07:42 PM	#5
The Lone Bolt Ring of Famer GO CHARGERS!!!! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: The Boredom Capital of the Universe (Everett, WA) Posts: 2,872	Are there other eyewitnessess who were on the ship who can confirm this account? Any supporting physical evidence?

06-17-2010, 07:46 PM	#6
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,780	The Israelis took all of the cell phones, camcorders, and cameras from the activists. Most of the footage of what happened is in Israel's hands -- and by now probably has been destroyed. Other eyewitness accounts of the people on the ships -- are very similar to this one. If you search the web you can find them. Oh I forgot. You don't do research.

06-17-2010, 07:59 PM	#8
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,780	Stay tuned, Dolt. In the near future I will be posting a new piece on 9/11. It will be a stunner. You saw it here first.

06-17-2010, 10:18 PM	#11
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	/1) hal 9000: Just came upon this article on 9/11 blogger. Very interesting indeed - http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment "Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001. A December 2000 WTC property assessment described required renovation work to be completed within one year, upon steel columns within elevator shafts of both WTC towers that was immediately pending or already underway. Terror devastates A/E/C firms 12 employees of Turner Construction were located in an office in the third subbasement of Tower 1, the north tower. Turner had been performing renovation work in various parts of the center and had occupied various office spaces." http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment The CEO of the company is now the Mayor of Dallas and has connections to George W. Bush - "The CEO for Turner Construction Company appointed in 1999, was Tom Leppert, who joined the board of Turner in 1998, is currently the mayor of Dallas, Texas and who has ties with former president George W. Bush and Carlos M. Gutierrez, Secretary of the U.S. Department of Commerce. The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a bureau of the Department of Commerce, was assigned to investigate the collapses of the WTC 1,2 and 7. Thomas C. Leppert Named To Succeed E.T. Gravette, Jr. As Chairman Of The Turner Corporation http://www.turnerconstruction.com/co...?d=1222&p=1153 PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT FOR MAYOR LEPPERT President George W. Bush appointed Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert to the President’s Commission on White House Fellows. http://www.tomleppert.com/PR/docs/fe...commission.pdf Mayor Leppert meets with Bush Dallas Business Journal Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert, along with a group of 11 other mayors, met with President George W. Bush and Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez Wednesday at the White House to discuss a free trade agreement with the South American countries of Peru and Colombia. http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/st...26.html?jst=m_... " _CREATIONIST_: Quote from: hal 9000 on April 24, 2009, 01:29:10 PM Just came upon this article on 9/11 blogger. Very interesting indeed - http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment "Turner Construction, who supervised the 2000 demolition of the Seattle Kingdome, participated in the post-9/11 Ground Zero clean-up and performed extensive renovations within the World Trade Center towers just prior to 9/11, was in fact performing unspecified renovation work throughout the WTC complex until the very morning of September 11, 2001. The Port Authority of NY/NJ now claims that records describing such work or other projects were destroyed on September 11, 2001. A December 2000 WTC property assessment described required renovation work to be completed within one year, upon steel columns within elevator shafts of both WTC towers that was immediately pending or already underway. Terror devastates A/E/C firms 12 employees of Turner Construction were located in an office in the third subbasement of Tower 1, the north tower. Turner had been performing renovation work in various parts of the center and had occupied various office spaces." http://www.911blogger.com/node/19889#comment The CEO of the company is now the Mayor of Dallas and has connections to George W. Bush - "The CEO for Turner Construction Company appointed in 1999, was Tom Leppert, who joined the board of Turner in 1998, is currently the mayor of Dallas, Texas and who has ties with former president George W. Bush and Carlos M. Gutierrez, Secretary of the U.S. Department of Commerce. The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a bureau of the Department of Commerce, was assigned to investigate the collapses of the WTC 1,2 and 7. Thomas C. Leppert Named To Succeed E.T. Gravette, Jr. As Chairman Of The Turner Corporation http://www.turnerconstruction.com/co...?d=1222&p=1153 PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENT FOR MAYOR LEPPERT President George W. Bush appointed Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert to the President’s Commission on White House Fellows. http://www.tomleppert.com/PR/docs/fe...commission.pdf Mayor Leppert meets with Bush Dallas Business Journal Dallas Mayor Tom Leppert, along with a group of 11 other mayors, met with President George W. Bush and Commerce Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez Wednesday at the White House to discuss a free trade agreement with the South American countries of Peru and Colombia. http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/st...26.html?jst=m_... " good find, copied and will post on other forums. hal 9000: I couldn't help but notice the irony of this Leppert guy being the mayor of Dallas, being that the mayor of Dallas at the time of the Kennedy assassination was one Earl Cabell, brother of Charles Cabell who was fired by Kennedy as # 2 man in the CIA after the Bay of Pigs debacle. Another oddity is that Leppert was called to the White House, along with 11 other U.S. mayors, to meet with Bush and Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez to "discuss a free trade agreement with the South American countries of Peru and Colombia." Why would they call this guy in to help negotiate some trade deal between the U.S. and two South American countries? I can't help but be reminded of JFK assassination trial defendant Clay Shaw, who was prosecuted by New Orleans D. A. Jim Garrison in the late 1960's - "Clay Shaw was the manager and director of the International Trade Mart in downtown New Orleans, which he established in the city in 1962. In 1962 and 1963, he was a member of the International House in New Orleans and the World Trade Development Committee. In 1958-63, he was a member of the board of directors of Permindex. In 1963, he was living in the French Quarter, New Orleans. On August 14, 1974, Clay Shaw died of lung cancer in New Orleans. More Info. Permindex was a Swiss corporation primarily involved in setting up industrial expositions and international trade for American manufacturers. Permindex was an offshoot of the World Trade Center, which Clay Shaw was a director of. The Centro Mondiale Commerciale(World Trade Center) was created in Montreal, Canada, then moved to Rome in 1961. In 1962, the Italian government expelled the World Trade Center and "Permindex from Italy for subversive intelligence activity." They had refused to disclose the origins of large amounts of money, and there was no record of real commercial transactions. After both companies were kicked out of Italy and Switzerland in 1962, they set up shop in Johannesburg, South Africa. Permindex may have been involved in the JFK assassination. From the book On the Trail of the Assassins by Jim Garrison. He also wrote The Star Spangled Contract. From 1962-2008, there have been World Trade Center buildings in New Orleans and Dallas." There just seem to be some very odd things going on with this Tom Leppert character and the Turner Construction company, things of a spook like nature is what I mean. Navigation [0] Message Index

06-17-2010, 10:29 PM	#12
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	There ya go gaff, I already laid it out for you a year ago.

06-17-2010, 10:31 PM	#13
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	check the links.

06-17-2010, 10:34 PM	#14
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	Thomas C. Leppert Named To Succeed E.T. Gravette, Jr. As Chairman Of The Turner Corporation Designation By The Board Of Directors Effective October 1, 1999 At Close Of Mr. Gravette’s Term NEW YORK, June 11, 1999 – The Turner Corporation (NYSE: TUR), the nation’s leading general builder, announced its board of directors’ selection of Thomas C. Leppert as chairman and CEO-designate to succeed E.T. “Bud” Gravette, Jr., as chairman and CEO of The Turner Corporation. Mr. Leppert’s appointment as chairman and CEO will be effective October 1, 1999. Currently chairman of the board’s Committee on Long-Range Planning, Mr. Leppert joined The Turner Corporation board in May 1998. He presently serves as trustee of the James Campbell Estate, a trust based in Honolulu, Hawaii. Previously, Mr. Leppert served as vice chairman of the Bank of Hawaii and Pacific Century Financial Corp., President and CEO of Castle & Cooke Hawaii, and a principal with the consulting firm, McKinsey & Co., Inc. Commenting on the board’s selection of Mr. Leppert as his successor as chairman, Mr. Gravette said: “I am extremely pleased that Tom Leppert will succeed me as chairman and CEO of The Turner Corporation. His service on the board, particularly his leadership of the Long-Range Planning Committee, distinguishes him as an individual with an impressive professional experience and a broad business and financial background. Tom’s perspectives on significant strategic issues relating to this Corporation’s growth are invaluable.” “On the threshold of the next century, we need a strong, well-experienced board and a skilled operating management team to realize the full potential of The Turner Corporation’s resources. I am confident that Tom, working with the board and Robert E. Fee, chief operating officer of The Turner Corporation and president and chief executive officer of Turner Construction Company, will continue the substantial progress made that restored The Turner Corporation to profitability and strong revenue growth. He has a clear vision of what this firm can accomplish.” Mr. Gravette noted that last September he acceded to the board’s request that he remain as chairman and CEO for a transitional period of two years as the positive effects of the Corporation’s reorganization gained momentum throughout the organization. “Since 1996, our team has proven that it can grow profits, revenue and market share and successfully enter new market segments as the nation’s leading general builder. The Turner Corporation and its subsidiary, Turner Construction Company, are now led by a tested, cost- conscious, profit-oriented senior management team. And as a tangible recognition of The Turner Corporation’s coming of age, our shares began trading on the New Otis had run those elevators for 50 years.

06-18-2010, 10:23 AM	#16
orangeatheist Champion of the Godless Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,012	Just start agreeing with Gaffe. If you just ooh and ahh at everything he posts my bet is he'll eventually go away. Right now he has an audience and he can play the lone voice crying in the wilderness. If he thinks he's stooged everyone, he'll go to greener pastures. Stop asking questions; stop arguing; just post "Nice one, Mr. Gaffney. Good job." If that's all he gets, he'll go away.

06-18-2010, 11:23 AM	#17
Requiem ~~~ ~ ~ ~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Earth Division Posts: 19,606 Adopt-a-Bronco: Gilgamesh	Just curious, do any of you guys have anything to say or counter what Gaff provided in regards to the flotilla decable?

06-18-2010, 02:18 PM	#23
DenverBrit Just hanging out. Got a breath mint?? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 11,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: The Team	Personally, I don't see anything to dispute at this point in time. I'm sure any investigation will be questioned, depending upon the outcome. The fact is, Israel is heavy handed with anyone perceived to be threatening their security. So it doesn't surprise me that violence took place on a ship trying to break a blockade that has been in place for years and has a history of violent encounters and arms smuggling. Honestly, did anyone think for one moment that the Israelis would allow the ship to break the blockade without a military confrontation? Of course, part of the objective was to have such a confrontation. I wouldn't advise 'peace activists' to wander into Taliban controlled areas either; the end result is equally predictable.