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Old 05-25-2010, 02:59 AM   #1
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http://www.usatoday.com/money/econom...terstitialskip
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:23 AM   #2
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Economist David Henderson of the conservative Hoover Institution says a shift from private wages to government benefits saps the economy of dynamism. "People are paid for being rather than for producing," he says.

Exactly my issue, right there in the last sentence.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:48 AM   #3
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I agree with this as well. Maybe its because I live in DC and am familiar with government work ethic. We are gonna be a banana republic soon enough. Or worse yet, Greece, where the only thing that gets people off their ass in the prospect of losing their entitlement.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:10 AM   #4
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I agree with this as well. Maybe its because I live in DC and am familiar with government work ethic. We are gonna be a banana republic soon enough. Or worse yet, Greece, where the only thing that gets people off their ass in the prospect of losing their entitlement.
Last I checked there were less than 17 million workers on Federal, State and Local government payrolls. Hyberbole much?
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:47 AM   #5
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Last I checked there were less than 17 million workers on Federal, State and Local government payrolls. Hyberbole much?
Well, it is obvious that you haven't checked lately. According to BLS, in April 2010, there were approximately 130,161,000 Non-farm jobs in the US. Of that 22,571,000 were government jobs at the Federal, State and Local levels, which comprises 17.3% (1 out of 6) of the non-farm jobs. While that is not at the 30% government levels you see in Greece, it is still a large number. And you would have to be completely ignorant not to realize that the $50 Trillion in unfunded liabilities that our government has in Social Security and Medicare obligations is a major financial problem. Unfortunately, neither party is interested in making the tough decisions necessary to address our financial mess, and the Democrats just hoisted another huge entitlement program into the mix with the Health Care legislation that they recently passed.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:48 AM   #6
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ah...getting all your news from USAtoday again.....

so, do you still have to wear a bib and drink from a sippy cup?
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:02 PM   #7
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Democrats just hoisted another huge entitlement program into the mix with the Health Care legislation that they recently passed.
You forgot to quote the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office report:

"The health care reform compromise bill will cut the deficit by $138 billion over the next 10 years and by another $1.2 trillion over the following 10 years; will give 32 million more Americans access to coverage, close the Medicare donut hole, and extend Medicare’s solvency by at least nine years."
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:11 PM   #8
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Mock do you work for USA Today now??

Seriously, 4 of your last 6 threads are a link to USA today... are you selling subscriptions?
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:12 PM   #9
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ah...getting all your news from USAtoday again.....

so, do you still have to wear a bib and drink from a sippy cup?
I don't know about Mock, but I sure do...
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:21 PM   #10
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ah...getting all your news from USAtoday again.....

so, do you still have to wear a bib and drink from a sippy cup?
Wow,what do you want?

USA Today is considered legitimate.

FUUK You!

Your just a weeenie dilhole.

Last edited by watermock; 05-25-2010 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:23 PM   #11
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You forgot to quote the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office report:

"The health care reform compromise bill will cut the deficit by $138 billion over the next 10 years and by another $1.2 trillion over the following 10 years; will give 32 million more Americans access to coverage, close the Medicare donut hole, and extend Medicare’s solvency by at least nine years."
Do you really think that providing health coverage to 32 million people, without any cost controls built into the legislation, is actually going to save the taxpayer money?

The CBO is required to provide the deficit impact of legislation based strictly on what is in the specific piece of legislation. That means that the Medicare taxes that were raised with the legislation can be used to make the deficit numbers look better, even though the money cannot be used to fund it. Legislation is crafted all of the time to make the CBO numbers palatable, and this is a great example of it. It also doesn't take into consideration the unfunded mandates that were dumped on the states and their Medicaid programs.

The saddest part about the $138 billion in savings that you cite over the next ten years is that, based upon the projected $10 trillion in new debt the US is going to accumulate during that time, it is merely a rounding error. The truth is that no one has any idea what the true cost of this legislation is going to be, but when was the last time you saw a government program cost less than what the politicians said it would?
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:32 PM   #12
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Income from private sector shrinks
Updated 33m ago | Comments 26 | Recommend 4 E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |


Enlarge By Mark Wilson, Getty Images

Stacks of dollar bills pass through a machine at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing in this file photo.



PAY SCALE





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By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
Paychecks from private business shrank to their smallest share of personal income in U.S. history during the first quarter of this year, a USA TODAY analysis of government data finds.
At the same time, government-provided benefits — from Social Security, unemployment insurance, food stamps and other programs — rose to a record high during the first three months of 2010.

Those records reflect a long-term trend accelerated by the recession and the federal stimulus program to counteract the downturn. The result is a major shift in the source of personal income from private wages to government programs.

The trend is not sustainable, says University of Michigan economist Donald Grimes. Reason: The federal government depends on private wages to generate income taxes to pay for its ever-more-expensive programs. Government-generated income is taxed at lower rates or not at all, he says. "This is really important," Grimes says.

The recession has erased 8 million private jobs. Even before the downturn, private wages were eroding because of the substitution of health and pension benefits for taxable salaries.

The Bureau of Economic Analysis reports that individuals received income from all sources — wages, investments, food stamps, etc. — at a $12.2 trillion annual rate in the first quarter.

Key shifts in income this year:

• Private wages. A record-low 41.9% of the nation's personal income came from private wages and salaries in the first quarter, down from 44.6% when the recession began in December 2007.

•Government benefits. Individuals got 17.9% of their income from government programs in the first quarter, up from 14.2% when the recession started. Programs for the elderly, the poor and the unemployed all grew in cost and importance. An additional 9.8% of personal income was paid as wages to government employees.

The shift in incomeshows that the federal government's stimulus efforts have been effective, says Paul Van de Water, an economist at the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

"It's the system working as it should," Van de Water says. Government is stimulating growth and helping people in need, he says. As the economy recovers, private wages will rebound, he says.

Economist Veronique de Rugy of the free-market Mercatus Center at George Mason University says the riots in Greece over cutting benefits to close a huge budget deficit are a warning about unsustainable income programs.

Economist David Henderson of the conservative Hoover Institution says a shift from private wages to government benefits saps the economy of dynamism. "People are paid for being rather than for producing," he says.


Last edited by watermock; 05-25-2010 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:43 PM   #13
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Do you really think that providing health coverage to 32 million people, without any cost controls built into the legislation, is actually going to save the taxpayer money?

The CBO is required to provide the deficit impact of legislation based strictly on what is in the specific piece of legislation. That means that the Medicare taxes that were raised with the legislation can be used to make the deficit numbers look better, even though the money cannot be used to fund it. Legislation is crafted all of the time to make the CBO numbers palatable, and this is a great example of it. It also doesn't take into consideration the unfunded mandates that were dumped on the states and their Medicaid programs.

The saddest part about the $138 billion in savings that you cite over the next ten years is that, based upon the projected $10 trillion in new debt the US is going to accumulate during that time, it is merely a rounding error. The truth is that no one has any idea what the true cost of this legislation is going to be, but when was the last time you saw a government program cost less than what the politicians said it would?
When was the last time the government passed a bill with a real attempt at paying for it?

Medicare Part D? No intention of actually paying for it.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? No intention of paying for those.

The 250+ free trade agreements and the massive loss of jobs under the Clinton administration? No budgeting for that impact either.

It goes all the way back to Reagan slashing taxes while increasing military spending, and using social security and medicare as war chests to be plundered in the short term.

The new health care plan is the first time in a long while that the U.S. government put through legislation designed to actually benefit the American people and be deficit neutral or negative.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:49 PM   #14
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The only thing people are really entitled to is their freedom. Everything else gravy. What set the US apart from many other nations was that it provided free education for everyone, especially the poor, and that helped create the middle class.

I get a statement once a year from the fed gov that shows how much I've paid into medicare and social security since I started working. However, I honestly don't think I'll ever see a dime of that money.

Here's what I'd do if I was the fed gov as far as Social Security is concerned: I'd give the people who are currently retiring an one time check that equals the amount they paid into SS and be done with it. If people get mad, too bad. You're getting back exactly what you paid into it. It's the people who retire at 65 and live to 95 and collect social security for 30 years that are killing the system. Either that, or push back retirement.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:53 PM   #15
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Damn private sector is not pulling its weight.... As for the original point of the thread - free trade - I actually supported free trade, the WTO and NAFTA when they came out. Was a Republican back then. I still think it is a good idea that will someday show its promise once the economies across the world improve. That being said, the impact it has had in Mexico and the US (jobs, wages, immigration) have to make me question if it is worth it. Do the ends justify the means...

By the way, free trade is most assuredly NOT a red vs. blue issue. WTO and NAFTA were conceived and negotiated under Bush 41, enacted under Clinton and nurtured under Bush 43. The main stalwart opponents to Free Trade have been unions, environmentalists and progressives (read: pinko liberal whackos - otherwise known as "my peeps"). You did have a segment of the right under Perot against it but there hasn't been a bedrock of Free Trade opposition in the GOP in a long while. Though that might be changing? What's the Tea Party stance on Free Trade? Anyone?

I imagine it isn't a cut and dried answer. Libertarians probably are ardent supporters of Free Trade, WTO and NAFTA. But that's just part of the Tea Party movement. Anyone? Looking for real positions not just talking points like "fair trade" and "putting 'mericuns back to work".
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:58 PM   #16
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Wow,what do you want?

USA Today is considered legitimate.

FUUK You!

Your just a weeenie dilhole.
USATODAY is a joke newspaper. It is written so that 3rd graders can understand it. It is meant to be something to give to travelers in their hotel and is nothing more than bird cage material.

I am not getting into a battle of wits with you but let's look at the facts. I am have a Masters, will begin in the next few years on my PHD and have published journals....I think I know a little about what I talk about....
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:09 PM   #17
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USATODAY is a joke newspaper. It is written so that 3rd graders can understand it. It is meant to be something to give to travelers in their hotel and is nothing more than bird cage material.

I am not getting into a battle of wits with you but let's look at the facts. I am have a Masters, will begin in the next few years on my PHD and have published journals....I think I know a little about what I talk about....
it's not in English is it?
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:16 PM   #18
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I am have a Masters, and have published journals
So? Mock masturbates to The Wall Street Journal. Mock>you.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:21 PM   #19
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Wow,what do you want?

USA Today is considered legitimate.

FUUK You!

Your just a weeenie dilhole.
Your riiiiiiitte

heeeee SUUKZ!

Where is the baking soda?

lease a gerund.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:23 PM   #20
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Your riiiiiiitte

heeeee SUUKZ!

Where is the baking soda?

lease a gerund.
I don't know, man. I don't think Mock am have a Masters.
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:51 PM   #21
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it's not in English is it?
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Old 05-25-2010, 03:58 PM   #22
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"Free trade" is a pipe dream.
It's just not possible to ensure that every country follows the rules!
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:51 PM   #23
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Yeah...


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=home

Or http://www.seussville.com/

Last edited by watermock; 05-25-2010 at 04:58 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:00 PM   #24
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http://www.seussville.com/main.php?s...ogID=&eventID=
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:02 PM   #25
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Dr Seuss eh?



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