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Old 05-12-2010, 05:07 PM   #1
Carmelo15
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Default OT: Arizona governor bans state's schools from teaching Chicano Studies

Or any type of ethnic studies for that matter. There's no denying now that this woman is a racist. I already felt this way after she signed her radical immigration law. I'd like to see those of you who tried to rationalize that law to do the same for this one.

Posting from a mobile phone right now, link will be posted later. If someone else could get one up in the meantime that'd be great.

This is about a different law, not illegal immigration so as a former Chicano Studies major, I feel this deserves its own thread!
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:10 PM   #2
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the class was developed by La Raza. Not allowed to teach public school courses that encourage anti-government education. not racist it's to discourage extremists from infiltrating public classrooms.

That's what it's really about.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmelo15 View Post
Or any type of ethnic studies for that matter. There's no denying now that this woman is a racist. I already felt this way after she signed her radical immigration law. I'd like to see those of you who tried to rationalize that law to do the same for this one.

Posting from a mobile phone right now, link will be posted later. If someone else could get one up in the meantime that'd be great.

This is about a different law, not illegal immigration so as a former Chicano Studies major, I feel this deserves its own thread!
I actually read the bill. This is the exact wording.

A. A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE SHALL NOT INCLUDE
IN ITS PROGRAM OF INSTRUCTION ANY COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING:
1. PROMOTE THE OVERTHROW OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
2. PROMOTE RESENTMENT TOWARD A RACE OR CLASS OF PEOPLE.
3. ARE DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR PUPILS OF A PARTICULAR ETHNIC GROUP.
4. ADVOCATE ETHNIC SOLIDARITY INSTEAD OF THE TREATMENT OF PUPILS AS
INDIVIDUALS.

It also goes on to say "3. COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE THE HISTORY OF ANY ETHNIC GROUP AND THAT ARE OPEN TO ALL STUDENTS, UNLESS THE COURSE OR CLASS VIOLATES SUBSECTION A."

I really don't see anything wrong with this. No where does it "ban schools from teaching Chicano studies". At least the official language of the bill doesn't

And for the record, I am an unabashed liberal and have criticized the Arizona immigration law in the WRP forum.

But I don't see anything wrong in this bill. Its pretty much standard in every state, even extreme left ones like Oregon. I don't see why its an issue.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by atomicbloke View Post
I actually read the bill. This is the exact wording.

A. A SCHOOL DISTRICT OR CHARTER SCHOOL IN THIS STATE SHALL NOT INCLUDE
IN ITS PROGRAM OF INSTRUCTION ANY COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE ANY OF THE
FOLLOWING:
1. PROMOTE THE OVERTHROW OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
2. PROMOTE RESENTMENT TOWARD A RACE OR CLASS OF PEOPLE.
3. ARE DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR PUPILS OF A PARTICULAR ETHNIC GROUP.
4. ADVOCATE ETHNIC SOLIDARITY INSTEAD OF THE TREATMENT OF PUPILS AS
INDIVIDUALS.

It also goes on to say "3. COURSES OR CLASSES THAT INCLUDE THE HISTORY OF ANY ETHNIC GROUP AND THAT ARE OPEN TO ALL STUDENTS, UNLESS THE COURSE OR CLASS VIOLATES SUBSECTION A."

I really don't see anything wrong with this. No where does it "ban schools from teaching Chicano studies". At least the official language of the bill doesn't

And for the record, I am an unabashed liberal and have criticized the Arizona immigration law in the WRP forum.

But I don't see anything wrong in this bill. Its pretty much standard in every state, even extreme left ones like Oregon. I don't see why its an issue.
I would fight this law because it is very poorly worded.

I would say that:

2. PROMOTE RESENTMENT TOWARD A RACE OR CLASS OF PEOPLE.

Would pretty much make teaching US History illegal.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:35 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Carmelo15 View Post
Or any type of ethnic studies for that matter. There's no denying now that this woman is a racist. I already felt this way after she signed her radical immigration law. I'd like to see those of you who tried to rationalize that law to do the same for this one.

Posting from a mobile phone right now, link will be posted later. If someone else could get one up in the meantime that'd be great.

This is about a different law, not illegal immigration so as a former Chicano Studies major, I feel this deserves its own thread!

It is EXACTLY the same as federal law. They cut and pasted from federal statutes to craft the law...

Reality. It is your friend.

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Old 05-12-2010, 05:44 PM   #6
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the class was developed by La Raza. Not allowed to teach public school courses that encourage anti-government education. not racist it's to discourage extremists from infiltrating public classrooms.

That's what it's really about.
lol, wat? can you cite any proof of this, or are you just spouting off like some uninformed right wing idiot? don't bother responding, i already know the answer.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:47 PM   #7
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Funny - you never hear Vietnamese, Thai, Korean, Japanese, or Armenian immigrants (huge populations in L.A.) demanding that schools offer special classes for them. You never hear these groups demand that government offices provide recorded instructions or messages in their language, etc. You never hear these groups demand that the legal requirements for American citizenship be waived for them (let alone call you a "racist" or a "bigot" when you disagree.)
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:47 PM   #8
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I never saw a point in Chicano Studies or Womens Studies etc., so I'm cool with this.

One of the great things about America has been it's ability to assimilate different cultures into being American first and foremost. I'm so sick and tired of hearing about other cultures and how I'm trampling on them by just living in America and how awful I am for being born a white American male. As far as I'm concerned, La Raza and the other Mexicans with an inferiority complex and go **** themselves. What the hell do they need more land for? It's not like they're doing anything of worth with the land they have.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:50 PM   #9
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Funny - you never hear Vietnamese, Thai, Korean, Japanese, or Armenian immigrants (huge populations in L.A.) demanding that schools offer special classes for them.
They do. And most big universities have those classes.

And anyway this is besides the point being discussed in this thread.

A quick reading of the bill will make it clear that the bill does not in any way ban Chicano studies.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by atomicbloke View Post
They do. And most big universities have those classes.

And anyway this is besides the point being discussed in this thread.

A quick reading of the bill will make it clear that the bill does not in any way ban Chicano studies.

You are racist for saying that.


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Old 05-12-2010, 06:00 PM   #11
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They do. And most big universities have those classes.
Really?

Where is the evidence that these other groups demand all of the things I mentioned?
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
Really?

Where is the evidence that these other groups demand all of the things I mentioned?
Read the course catalogs for any major university, public or private.

It includes, Chicano Studies, African American Studies, Asian Studies, American Studies, Indian Studies, European Studies, Comparative Ethnic Studies, etc. etc.... they form an important pillar of all humanities curricula.

And it wouldn't be if there was no demand. You cannot have a humanities department in any university without having these courses.

And as I stated, the bill does not ban ethnic studies.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sixtimeseight View Post
lol, wat? can you cite any proof of this, or are you just spouting off like some uninformed right wing idiot? don't bother responding, i already know the answer.
http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?Doc_Id=323

this was from 2008. nothing new, but horne created the bill to combat the class.

might do you some good to listen to other voices, than assume you know everything.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:15 PM   #14
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicbloke View Post
Read the course catalogs for any major university, public or private.

It includes, Chicano Studies, African American Studies, Asian Studies, American Studies, Indian Studies, European Studies, Comparative Ethnic Studies, etc. etc.... they form an important pillar of all humanities curricula.

And it wouldn't be if there was no demand. You cannot have a humanities department in any university without having these courses.

And as I stated, the bill does not ban ethnic studies.
Dude, that's college. You can study just about anything in college. You know, "University" encompasses many different studies.

This Arizona thing is for public schools, no? I'm I missing somthing here?
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:20 PM   #16
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http://www.nas.org/polArticles.cfm?Doc_Id=323

this was from 2008. nothing new, but horne created the bill to combat the class.

might do you some good to listen to other voices, than assume you know everything.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:28 PM   #17
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Personally I can't stand obsession with ethnicity. We're all humans. Stop splitting everyone up into different factions.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:29 PM   #18
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Chicano people are American. It's basically a spanish speaking border culture. It's another subset of Americans just like Native Americans and African Americans. Each has their own history and culture. And do everyone well to learn about each subset of American culture, esp. one as old and deep-rooted as Chicano culture. In some ways it's more of a history and culture of the southwest than the typical American culture/history is...
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:30 PM   #19
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Personally I can't stand obsession with ethnicity. We're all humans. Stop splitting everyone up into different factions.
Let me guess, you're white. The factions exist. It's not by choice. It's a matter of language and culture just as it's matter of race. One could say the same thing about religion, or the different denominations of christianity, and they would equally come off as oafishly.

Cultural diversity is a good thing because it bring a more nuanced view of morality, art, justice, etc. etc. If we're all the same, we have very little to offer one another.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:31 PM   #20
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Dude, that's college. You can study just about anything in college. You know, "University" encompasses many different studies.

This Arizona thing is for public schools, no? I'm I missing somthing here?
Hmm.. you have a point there....
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN View Post
Funny - you never hear Vietnamese, Thai, Korean, Japanese, or Armenian immigrants (huge populations in L.A.) demanding that schools offer special classes for them. You never hear these groups demand that government offices provide recorded instructions or messages in their language, etc. You never hear these groups demand that the legal requirements for American citizenship be waived for them (let alone call you a "racist" or a "bigot" when you disagree.)

But they're not "SPECIAL" like our illegal friends from the southern border. They deserve more, just because.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:55 PM   #22
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Let me guess, you're white. The factions exist. It's not by choice. It's a matter of language and culture just as it's matter of race. One could say the same thing about religion, or the different denominations of christianity, and they would equally come off as oafishly.

Cultural diversity is a good thing because it bring a more nuanced view of morality, art, justice, etc. etc. If we're all the same, we have very little to offer one another.
American history has priority, period. Everything else is superfluous.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:58 PM   #23
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If you want Chicano studies go back to Chicano land...

:-p somebody had to do it...
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:40 PM   #24
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American history has priority, period.
Sure. No one says replace American History with Chicano Studies.
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Everything else is superfluous.
Says who? Why not learn as much as we can about as much as we can?
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:04 PM   #25
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Sure. No one says replace American History with Chicano Studies.
Says who? Why not learn as much as we can about as much as we can?

Call me a purist...but American history should always take precedent over any other. Is it important to learn about other cultures? Yes. But our history and culture should be taught and absorbed first. Every American kid should know who George Washington, Abraham Lincoln or MLK is before they learn about Che Guevara or Mao or Nelson Mandela or Gandhi.

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