An Illegal Immigration Solution - The Orange Mane

epicSocialism4tw · 05-10-2010, 04:41 PM

I'd like to see what some of the ideas here are.

Public sentiment and logistical issues prevent some options:

1. Mass Deportation - this is simply impossible given the lack of resources in law enforcement.

2. Open Borders - this is not a solution that Americans will approve, and its not a viable solution for the country. This would lead to a collapse of the infrastructure of border states, and later, the country. Not a solution.

Okay, the plan that I think would work...

1) Close the Borders - construct a fence. Increase law enforcement presence on the border including tunnel-detecting and breech-detecting technology.

2) Establish Naturalization Path - a) require knowledge of American politics, history, the English language, federal laws, and local laws...establish naturalization classes for a cost, b) pay naturalization penalties for breaking the law (its important to reestablish the law as the standard)

3) Enforce Immigration Law - begin fining employers who employ illegal aliens, begin deporting criminals, begin deporting all illegals who do not meet the naturalization standards (immediately deport felons imprisoned or not), and after a grace period that allows families to raise money for naturalization process, begin deporting those who do not follow through with stipulations that the path to naturalization can be continued if money is raised in Mexico.

etc.

Anyway, that's my take on some of the issues. What's your idea?

tsiguy96 · 05-10-2010, 04:44 PM

a fence will not do anything, but there needs to be actual deportation of illegal people, if yyou enter the country illegally you should not be given free reign to do wahtever, you should be kicked out if caught.

Quoydogs · 05-10-2010, 04:51 PM

I think it is pretty simple to solve the problem of them over here. Fine the hell out of the businesses that hire them. Nothing happens to the people that hire them right now that is the problem. It would need to be a huge fine also.

The real problem is, are people ready to take there jobs?

{point} Will Americans pull weeds all day for minim wage

Next are American ready to pay the price increase ?

I think the real problem lies in the fact that most Americans want to nothing and get paid big money for it. I mean its the American way.

Just my two cents. Flame on !

worm · 05-10-2010, 04:51 PM

Annex Mexico.

Dagmar · 05-10-2010, 04:53 PM

Quimby: People, your taxes are high because of illegal immigrants!

Moe: Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.

tsiguy96 · 05-10-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quoydogs

I think it is pretty simple to solve the problem of them over here. Fine the hell out of the businesses that hire them. Nothing happens to the people that hire them right now that is the problem. It would need to be a huge fine also.

The real problem is, are people ready to take there jobs?

{point} Will Americans pull weeks all day for minim wage

Next are American ready to pay the price increase ?

I think the real problem lies in the fact that most Americans want to nothing and get paid big money for it. I mean its the American way.

Just my two cents. Flame on !

not exactly, americans want to get paid enough money to live on, and getting paid minimum wage is not enough to live on. though some lazy asses want to keep popping out kids to get more money on welfare or sit in social security offices all day, a good percent of america is willing to work.

Quoydogs · 05-10-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

not exactly, americans want to get paid enough money to live on, and getting paid minimum wage is not enough to live on. though some lazy asses want to keep popping out kids to get more money on welfare or sit in social security offices all day, a good percent of america is willing to work.

Not to get off topic here but I have a solution for that also. If you are on any kind of Government aid then you must get the five year depo shot and be drug tested.

sirhcyennek81 · 05-10-2010, 04:56 PM

I am not entirely sure mass deportation is impossible. Difficult, but not impossible.

Anyway...

I do not believe law breaking should be rewarded with immediate citizenship. Require all illegals residing in the US to register and apply for work visas.

End anchor baby immigration policies...this was done for former slaves. No other country has this type of law. A baby born in the US is American if a) parents are natural-born American citizens or B} American through legal immigration.

Any illegal with a felony is immediately deported. He or she will not be allowed to legally work or live in the US.

Those who are illegal but otherwise clear to be US citizens if they so wish have a choice. Either apply for a visa to work, or apply for citizenship. If they do neither, they go back to the country of origin. If they pick citizenship, they go to the end of the line as far as becoming a citizen, but will be issued work visas and must pay all fines and fees and engage in the process legal citizens must adhere to to become American.

The border will be closed except at already recognized border crossings (SD, El Pasp, Brownsville). Anyone caught crossing the border will be arrested and charged with a felony, disqualifying them from any future attempt at becoming a US citizen.

Business that hire illegals can risk 5 million dollar fines, regardless of the business, and not a single, one time fine. Per illegal employed by that business.

Being that it is illegal in Mexico for noncitizens to demonstrate against the Mexican government, adopting this stance here would be beneficial. Non citizens have no say in the actions of the American people or their government. They want to be heard? Apply for legal citizenship.

Prosectue La Raza like the KKK or NeoNazi groups. Why be specific in which hate groups we watch?

loborugger · 05-10-2010, 04:58 PM

Its pretty f-in simple how you fix. And no politician from either side of the aisle will touch it with a 20 foot pole.

People come here for jobs. Pure and simple. All the solutions that are offered up these days deal with attacking the flow of immigrants. But there is almost no attempt to go after the corporations that hire illegals... and pay them 2 dollars a day with no benefits. And when someone makes a token effort to go after those hiring illegals, its Joe's Law Service, that employs 5 illegals. Meanwhile the major corporations have thousands on their role. But, since they make large donations to both parties, no politician will go after them.

So, get rid of the jobs, and the illegals flowing into the country will dry up. Pretty simple.

watermock · 05-10-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

End anchor baby immigration policies...this was done for former slaves. No other country has this type of law. A baby born in the US is American if a) parents are natural-born American citizens or B} American through legal immigration.

That would be a good start.

bowtown · 05-10-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loborugger

Its pretty f-in simple how you fix. And no politician from either side of the aisle will touch it with a 20 foot pole.

People come here for jobs. Pure and simple. All the solutions that are offered up these days deal with attacking the flow of immigrants. But there is almost no attempt to go after the corporations that hire illegals... and pay them 2 dollars a day with no benefits. And when someone makes a token effort to go after those hiring illegals, its Joe's Law Service, that employs 5 illegals. Meanwhile the major corporations have thousands on their role. But, since they make large donations to both parties, no politician will go after them.

So, get rid of the jobs, and the illegals flowing into the country will dry up. Pretty simple.

And what do we do about the riots in this country when the price of food doubles?

atomicbloke · 05-10-2010, 05:04 PM

What exactly is meant by "closing the border"?

The surface earth is a contiguous landmass. How exactly do you close it?

Don't tell me build a fence. Because prospective illegal immigrants aren't going to see a fence, and say .... aww shucks, there's a fence here, lets forget about it and go home....

Post armed troops on the border? Any idea how many soldiers will be needed for the entire length of the border and how much this will cost? And is it guaranteed to be more than 50% effective? Can't have them in 50-mile intervals since it doesn't solve anything. And then what about ship jumpers? You have to close the seas too.

atomicbloke · 05-10-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowtown

And what do we do about the riots in this country when the price of food doubles?

Easy. Blame the liberals.

Lev Vyvanse · 05-10-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loborugger

Its pretty f-in simple how you fix. And no politician from either side of the aisle will touch it with a 20 foot pole.

People come here for jobs. Pure and simple. All the solutions that are offered up these days deal with attacking the flow of immigrants. But there is almost no attempt to go after the corporations that hire illegals... and pay them 2 dollars a day with no benefits. And when someone makes a token effort to go after those hiring illegals, its Joe's Law Service, that employs 5 illegals. Meanwhile the major corporations have thousands on their role. But, since they make large donations to both parties, no politician will go after them.

So, get rid of the jobs, and the illegals flowing into the country will dry up. Pretty simple.

sirhcyennek81 · 05-10-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowtown

And what do we do about the riots in this country when the price of food doubles?

3% of illegals work in agriculture.

Im gonna say people wont riot...

SonOfLe-loLang · 05-10-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McSkillet

I'd like to see what some of the ideas here are.

Public sentiment and logistical issues prevent some options:

1. Mass Deportation - this is simply impossible given the lack of resources in law enforcement.

2. Open Borders - this is not a solution that Americans will approve, and its not a viable solution for the country. This would lead to a collapse of the infrastructure of border states, and later, the country. Not a solution.

Okay, the plan that I think would work...

1) Close the Borders - construct a fence. Increase law enforcement presence on the border including tunnel-detecting and breech-detecting technology.

2) Establish Naturalization Path - a) require knowledge of American politics, history, the English language, federal laws, and local laws...establish naturalization classes for a cost, b) pay naturalization penalties for breaking the law (its important to reestablish the law as the standard)

3) Enforce Immigration Law - begin fining employers who employ illegal aliens, begin deporting criminals, begin deporting all illegals who do not meet the naturalization standards (immediately deport felons imprisoned or not), and after a grace period that allows families to raise money for naturalization process, begin deporting those who do not follow through with stipulations that the path to naturalization can be continued if money is raised in Mexico.

etc.

Anyway, that's my take on some of the issues. What's your idea?

I think ignorance to politics is about as American as it gets.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 05-10-2010, 05:08 PM

Oy. You guys do realize there's a political forum, correct?

sirhcyennek81 · 05-10-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatOneDenverMooseGuy

Oy. You guys do realize there's a political forum, correct?

For reals?

atomicbloke · 05-10-2010, 05:09 PM

For the record, no country in the world has been able to solve the illegal immigration problem.

Also, illegal immigration is not a problem afflicting first world countries. Even third world countries have illegal immigrants from poorer third world countries.

So if you can find a viable serious solution, a lot of folks will want to hear from you.

Borks147 · 05-10-2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang

I think ignorance to politics is about as American as it gets.

haha yup - naturalized citizens know more about the bill of rights than most Americans born here.

TheElusiveKyleOrton · 05-10-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

For reals?

Swear to god. But maybe there shouldn't be since folks apparently don't know how to post stuff there, and since the mods are evidently not interested in moving stuff there.

/shrug

Oh well.

As for the solutions, some of these are actually doable and palatable, even to me, a middle-of-the-road progressive. I have zero problem working with people who want to be here and want to be citizens.

And for the record, you're not "rewarding them" for breaking the law. The path to citizenship is effing HARD. It's long, and not fun. I'm guessing the lazy folks who are unwilling to go through the entire process will give up and take off.

Popps · 05-10-2010, 05:14 PM

Or, Mexicans could build up a real infrastructure of businesses, products, services and jobs for their own people.

Crazy thought, I know.

How is it that Canadians were able to build out a viable, functioning economy and Mexico couldn't?

atomicbloke · 05-10-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popps

Or, Mexicans could build up a real infrastructure of businesses, products, services and jobs for their own people.

Crazy thought, I know.

How is it that Canadians were able to build out a viable, functioning economy and Mexico couldn't?

What is your opinion on Americans living illegally in other countries?

Pseudofool · 05-10-2010, 05:26 PM

You take away the demand for illegal labor. Enforce harsh penalties on businesses that break the law by hiring illegal labor. The only way you can stop it is to take away the demand. They will find a way to get past whatever layers of bureaucracy or fences we put up in their way.

Everyone else: Don't b**** when the prices at restaurants, hotels, fresh produce, and any thing else that is dependent on illegal labor to make it cheap go way up so that you can't afford them anymore.

Borks147 · 05-10-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popps

How is it that Canadians were able to build out a viable, functioning economy and Mexico couldn't?

Mexico had a larger and better trained army than the US in the early 1800s - a series of ****ty leaders led to the loss of half its territory and then another set of ****ty leaders led to the squandering of its remaining natural resources by foreign interests and then another set of ****ty leaders tried to fix a ****ty situation half-assedly. That brings us to the current day

05-10-2010, 04:41 PM	#1
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	An Illegal Immigration Solution I'd like to see what some of the ideas here are. Public sentiment and logistical issues prevent some options: 1. Mass Deportation - this is simply impossible given the lack of resources in law enforcement. 2. Open Borders - this is not a solution that Americans will approve, and its not a viable solution for the country. This would lead to a collapse of the infrastructure of border states, and later, the country. Not a solution. Okay, the plan that I think would work... 1) Close the Borders - construct a fence. Increase law enforcement presence on the border including tunnel-detecting and breech-detecting technology. 2) Establish Naturalization Path - a) require knowledge of American politics, history, the English language, federal laws, and local laws...establish naturalization classes for a cost, b) pay naturalization penalties for breaking the law (its important to reestablish the law as the standard) 3) Enforce Immigration Law - begin fining employers who employ illegal aliens, begin deporting criminals, begin deporting all illegals who do not meet the naturalization standards (immediately deport felons imprisoned or not), and after a grace period that allows families to raise money for naturalization process, begin deporting those who do not follow through with stipulations that the path to naturalization can be continued if money is raised in Mexico. etc. Anyway, that's my take on some of the issues. What's your idea?

05-10-2010, 05:08 PM	#17
TheElusiveKyleOrton www.dailydickpunch.com @RMoneyBadger Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Steamboat Springs Posts: 9,776 Adopt-a-Bronco: "Debo" Franklin	Oy. You guys do realize there's a political forum, correct? __________________ Nobody puts Jay-bee in the corner.

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05-10-2010, 04:44 PM	#2
tsiguy96 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12,559 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	a fence will not do anything, but there needs to be actual deportation of illegal people, if yyou enter the country illegally you should not be given free reign to do wahtever, you should be kicked out if caught.

05-10-2010, 04:51 PM	#3
Quoydogs Who's gonna be next? I'm too stupid to put an avatar up Join Date: May 2004 Location: Portland OR Posts: 2,506 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	I think it is pretty simple to solve the problem of them over here. Fine the hell out of the businesses that hire them. Nothing happens to the people that hire them right now that is the problem. It would need to be a huge fine also. The real problem is, are people ready to take there jobs? {point} Will Americans pull weeds all day for minim wage Next are American ready to pay the price increase ? I think the real problem lies in the fact that most Americans want to nothing and get paid big money for it. I mean its the American way. Just my two cents. Flame on !

05-10-2010, 04:51 PM	#4
worm Great moments are born... ...from great opportunity Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,947 Adopt-a-Bronco: #20	Annex Mexico.

05-10-2010, 04:53 PM	#5
Dagmar ...there ain't no devil ..there's just God when he's drunk. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Morrison Posts: 17,132 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tim Tebow	Quimby: People, your taxes are high because of illegal immigrants! Moe: Immigants! I knew it was them! Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.

05-10-2010, 04:56 PM	#8
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,681 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	I am not entirely sure mass deportation is impossible. Difficult, but not impossible. Anyway... I do not believe law breaking should be rewarded with immediate citizenship. Require all illegals residing in the US to register and apply for work visas. End anchor baby immigration policies...this was done for former slaves. No other country has this type of law. A baby born in the US is American if a) parents are natural-born American citizens or B} American through legal immigration. Any illegal with a felony is immediately deported. He or she will not be allowed to legally work or live in the US. Those who are illegal but otherwise clear to be US citizens if they so wish have a choice. Either apply for a visa to work, or apply for citizenship. If they do neither, they go back to the country of origin. If they pick citizenship, they go to the end of the line as far as becoming a citizen, but will be issued work visas and must pay all fines and fees and engage in the process legal citizens must adhere to to become American. The border will be closed except at already recognized border crossings (SD, El Pasp, Brownsville). Anyone caught crossing the border will be arrested and charged with a felony, disqualifying them from any future attempt at becoming a US citizen. Business that hire illegals can risk 5 million dollar fines, regardless of the business, and not a single, one time fine. Per illegal employed by that business. Being that it is illegal in Mexico for noncitizens to demonstrate against the Mexican government, adopting this stance here would be beneficial. Non citizens have no say in the actions of the American people or their government. They want to be heard? Apply for legal citizenship. Prosectue La Raza like the KKK or NeoNazi groups. Why be specific in which hate groups we watch?

05-10-2010, 04:58 PM	#9
loborugger lost in the ether Did we finally get a FB??? Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The 'cuse Posts: 5,783 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	Its pretty f-in simple how you fix. And no politician from either side of the aisle will touch it with a 20 foot pole. People come here for jobs. Pure and simple. All the solutions that are offered up these days deal with attacking the flow of immigrants. But there is almost no attempt to go after the corporations that hire illegals... and pay them 2 dollars a day with no benefits. And when someone makes a token effort to go after those hiring illegals, its Joe's Law Service, that employs 5 illegals. Meanwhile the major corporations have thousands on their role. But, since they make large donations to both parties, no politician will go after them. So, get rid of the jobs, and the illegals flowing into the country will dry up. Pretty simple.

05-10-2010, 05:04 PM	#12
atomicbloke Ring of Famer La 12 Boca Juniors Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,347 Adopt-a-Bronco: Offensive Line	What exactly is meant by "closing the border"? The surface earth is a contiguous landmass. How exactly do you close it? Don't tell me build a fence. Because prospective illegal immigrants aren't going to see a fence, and say .... aww shucks, there's a fence here, lets forget about it and go home.... Post armed troops on the border? Any idea how many soldiers will be needed for the entire length of the border and how much this will cost? And is it guaranteed to be more than 50% effective? Can't have them in 50-mile intervals since it doesn't solve anything. And then what about ship jumpers? You have to close the seas too.

05-10-2010, 05:09 PM	#19
atomicbloke Ring of Famer La 12 Boca Juniors Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,347 Adopt-a-Bronco: Offensive Line	For the record, no country in the world has been able to solve the illegal immigration problem. Also, illegal immigration is not a problem afflicting first world countries. Even third world countries have illegal immigrants from poorer third world countries. So if you can find a viable serious solution, a lot of folks will want to hear from you.

05-10-2010, 05:14 PM	#22
Popps TEAM FIRST. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 29,786	Or, Mexicans could build up a real infrastructure of businesses, products, services and jobs for their own people. Crazy thought, I know. How is it that Canadians were able to build out a viable, functioning economy and Mexico couldn't?

05-10-2010, 05:26 PM	#24
Pseudofool Cynic at Large Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: The Kingdom of Solipsism Posts: 2,886 Adopt-a-Bronco: Me?	You take away the demand for illegal labor. Enforce harsh penalties on businesses that break the law by hiring illegal labor. The only way you can stop it is to take away the demand. They will find a way to get past whatever layers of bureaucracy or fences we put up in their way. Everyone else: Don't b**** when the prices at restaurants, hotels, fresh produce, and any thing else that is dependent on illegal labor to make it cheap go way up so that you can't afford them anymore.