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Old 05-09-2010, 08:47 AM   #1
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Default Woody and Kisla thinks we should trade Orton

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15047949

Paige: Broncos need to pull trigger on Orton trade
By Woody Paige
The Denver Post
POSTED: 05/09/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


Kyle Orton passed for 3,802 yards and 21 TDs last season. (Joe Amon, The Denver Post)
For the development of Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow and Tom Brandstater, for fairness to Kyle Orton, for the benefit of the other Broncos, for the future of the franchise, for the fans in Bronco Country, for goodness' sake, Orton must be traded.

Orton is not a short-term fix or a long-range fit for the Broncos.

A deal should be sought, in my opinion, before the team's voluntary minicamp May 17-19 so the Broncos and Orton can move on now.

Josh McDaniels, it has been asserted, has been joined at one hip with Tebow and, to the other, with Quinn, but, truthfully, his coaching reign in Denver can't be tied to Orton.

McDaniels is better off putting his trust in, and his teaching toward, Young QBT and QB3 Quinn, Brandstater & Tebow.

If the Broncos had been so enamored with Orton after the last so-so season, they wouldn't have first acquired Quinn and then drafted Tebow.

History serves. In 1982, serviceable journeyman Steve DeBerg was the Broncos' starter, but John Elway and Gary Kubiak arrived the next year. After the 1983 season, DeBerg left for Tampa Bay, and Elway and Kubiak were the Broncos' starter-backup tandem for a long time.

The DeBerg-like Orton, who will become an unrestricted free agent in 2011, will be gone soon anyway. It should be done prior to this season and Quinn and Tebow can compete vigorously to become No. 1. McDaniels obviously believes both can be starters in the NFL. Why wait until after another 8-8 season with Orton?

McDaniels made a bold, highly controversial decision to jettison Jay Cutler in 2009. The trading of Orton wouldn't be as difficult or unpopular. Orton didn't make a stand or a statement last season. The Broncos let it get away.

Orton has said publicly he had a "good season," and others have agreed with the assessment based on 21 touchdown passes, 12 interceptions, 3,802 yards passing and a shocking 6-0 start.

The Broncos

SUBMIT YOUR QUESTION

Post sports columnist Woody Paige fields your questions. Look for Woody's Mailbag on Thursdays.

lost eight of their final 10, and in those games Orton had 12 touchdown passes, 11 interceptions and 2,337 yards. In nine games last season, the Broncos' offense didn't score more than 20 points.
Orton, McDaniels and the Broncos had a "mediocre season."

Nobody, Cutler included, would say Cutler had a good season. But his last 10 games were comparable to Orton's a 4-6 record, 16 touchdown passes, 16 interceptions and 2,214 yards. One team finished 8-8, the other 7-9. Neither made the playoffs.

Orton is described as "smart, a leader, an overachiever, a tireless worker."

He is smart. Orton knows, in the aftermath of recent major events, he is a temp, at best, a reservist waiting to happen, at worst. He should welcome a change in venue to where he has a chance to start over. A dozen teams could use a veteran reserve, but the Broncos, honestly, wouldn't get much more than a mid- round draft pick in return.

He's not a true leader. The Broncos had Champ Bailey, D.J. Williams and Brian Dawkins in leadership roles on defense, but nobody on offense. The leadership has to come from the QB, and Orton's soft attitude didn't motivate his teammates.

He hasn't overachieved with his two NFL teams. Orton was dumped as a starter late in his rookie season with the Bears, barely played the next two seasons, started in 2008, didn't reach the postseason and was traded to the Broncos last year, where, again he fell short of the playoffs.

Post Poll - Exit Orton?

Denver Post columnist Woody Paige says the Broncos should trade veteran quarterback Kyle Orton the sooner the better for him and the Broncos. What do you think?

Trade him: The future is now. Let Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow battle for the starting job.
Keep him: Orton was solid last season. He deserves another chance this season to be the starting quarterback.

Although Orton played through two injuries (throwing hand and ankle), his quirky offseason work ethic has been questioned in Chicago and Denver.

Everybody knows Orton is immobile, doesn't possess a powerful arm, vacillates when making passing choices and doesn't read defenses extremely well. Like Brian Griese, Orton has to play a near-perfect game to win and receive a lot of help from his defense.

Orton is an average quarterback who couldn't start for 21 other teams in the league.

According to reports out of Jacksonville, the Jaguars have asked about a deal for Quinn. But the Broncos have been impressed with Quinn in OTAs (organized team activities) and will not let him go. The Jags' failure to draft Tebow likely was the death knell for the franchise in Jacksonville, but his presence on the Broncos' roster in the opening game will ensure a rare sellout for the Jaguars.

What about Orton in Jacksonville? He might push David Gerrard. Maybe the cross-state Bucs would be attracted to Orton, or the Bills, whose owner, Ralph Wilson, said the Broncos "panicked" by picking Tebow and that Buffalo had "no interest" in the QB.

If Orton were to be shipped out, the Broncos would save his $2.6 million contract and have Brandstater at $395,000, Tebow in the first year of an approximate five-year, $15 million to $18 million contract (about $8 million guaranteed) and Quinn in the odd position of receiving $700,000, with the chance to earn $5.9 million (if he takes 70 percent of the snaps). The Broncos will have two quarterbacks who will turn 26 in October (Quinn in his fourth season, Brandstater his second) and one will be 23 in August and in his rookie year.

That triad is the Broncos' solid future investment at quarterback.

And for the good of all, Orton has to be passed along.

Woody Paige: 303-954-1095 or wpaige@denverpost.com
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:48 AM   #2
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Can we all agree $2 million is serious money? Some jobs, however, are not worth doing at any cost.

Kyle Orton would have rocks for brains to start another game as quarterback of the Broncos. He would be playing the fool for Denver coach Josh McDaniels.

If Orton owns a penny's worth of common sense, he has already quietly, politely and firmly asked for a trade to grant his freedom. Let him go to the Buffalo Bills. The Edmonton Eskimos. Anywhere but here.

Why should Orton stick around and be a clown in the Tim Tebow circus?

In the NFL, a lame-duck quarterback is a messy ending waiting to happen.

It won't work. It can't work. Sandra Bullock and Jesse James have more of a future together than Orton and McDaniels.

Unless deaf, dumb and blind, Orton must be aware of his impending status as sacrificial scapegoat. At best, McDaniels deludes himself if he thinks Orton has the stuff to hold off challenges from Brady Quinn and Tebow. And the 75,000 Broncomaniacs itching to boo Orton the next time he throws an interception just want to get on with the rest of this team's life.

So let's stop the charade before everybody must pretend to go through the motions.

Stuck between impending NFL labor strife and a hard place, Orton recently signed a $2.6 million, one-year deal from the Broncos with barely a complaint.

Now, Orton can only hope it is his ticket out of town.

Think what you will of Orton. Sure, calling the 27-year-old quarterback a game manager might be code for not Super Bowl material. But if you want somebody to trash him, I'm not your guy.

Please take into consideration Orton's relatively modest salary, his winning percentage as an NFL starter and the solid character he demonstrates in victory or defeat. Add it up. What Orton brings to the table should be reasonably attractive on the trade market.

The Broncos obviously don't want him around for long. The only way

Share Your Analysis

Post sports columnist Mark Kiszla fields your feedback. Look for it in Kickin' It With Kiz on Sundays.
McDaniels could have sent his incumbent quarterback a more unmistakable vote of no confidence is if the coach hung a Tebow jersey in Orton's locker.

We know Orton's job is throwing passes. But he had to catch the hint that, when the Broncos traded for Quinn and drafted Tebow during a span of less than six weeks, McDan- iels was telling you, me and every player in the Denver locker room that he thinks Orton gives the team almost zero chance to be a big winner in the long run.

Has McDaniels ever compared Orton to New England superstar Tom Brady, as the young Broncos' coach seems so willing to do with Tebow?

If Jay Cutler or Brandon Marshall could pout his way out of Denver, then McDaniels owes Orton a fresh start in a new city.

It's the only classy thing to do.

Heck, it's the only practical thing to do. If Broncomaniacs booed Orton a year ago for not being Cutler, think of the grief he will endure for delaying the start of Tebow time.

Sorry, mayor John Hickenlooper. The toughest political position in Denver is quarterback of the Broncos. Orton does not have the clout to silence the howling masses the next time this team loses two games in a row.

The conventional wisdom has been that Orton will serve as the team's starting quarterback in 2010.

Why waste another year?

The Broncos travel to Tebow's backyard to open the regular season in Jacksonville.

If Orton is under center when the Broncos break the huddle, it might be the first time in NFL history the crowd loudly chants its demand for the visiting team to make a change at quarterback.

So long as Orton is the quarterback, Denver has no future.

Mark Kiszla: 303-954-1053 or mkiszla@denverpost.com
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:11 AM   #3
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I don't see a lot of teams calling for Orton after what happened with Cassel last year.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:20 AM   #4
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I think the Steelers would be a good fit for a guy like Orton, he'd start four games, and be a much better backup then Dixon for a potential playoff team...
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:27 AM   #5
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That mid-round pick at best trade value just screams to trade Orton now vs the end of August.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:27 AM   #6
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As much excitement there has been for Tebow, no way in hell do I get rid of an insurance policy (if you want to call Orton that) to have a true rookie compete with a below average QB. If you want to digress, trade Orton. Reading those articles, the cutesy crap wears off quickly.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:35 AM   #7
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More and more I'm coming to the opinion that trading Orton for whatever we can get for him might be the way to go.

I know people will point to the fact that he's the only QB on our roster who has started in the current system, but before last year he was in the same boat that Quinn finds himself in this year. If anything Quinn is in a better spot coming in than Kyle was, as he ran pretty much the same offense in college.

I like Orton, he's a good guy and a dependable QB who gives his all. But clearly McDaniels doesn't see him as being the future at the spot, no way we do anything other than let him walk after 2010. So if we can get something for him now then do it I say.
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:57 AM   #8
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Go for it.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:01 AM   #9
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I want Orton moved because I think he stinks. So obviously I'm biased.

But trying to put my bias aside and think logically, at least one of the QBs needs to go. I mean, why did we trade for a QB and then draft a QB? This whole thing has been a head scratcher. If McD thinks Tebow is an NFL starter, so be it. But that begs, why trade for Quinn? Why not just let Orton keep the seat warm for Tebow?

Personally I'd rather give Quinn a shot than keep Orton... But if we were to trade Quinn, it would make some sense. Again, I'm trying to not be biased. I'd rather keep Quinn. But logically, somebody has to go. Maybe it's as simple as cutting Brandstater and having the other 3 QBs. Who knows.

Either way, this little "logjam" if you want to call it that will need to be resolved before the season starts.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:17 AM   #10
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More and more I am coming to the opinion that NOT trading Orton is the better way to go. I am not convinced that Timmy T will be ready to go this year at all, except for gimmic plays that will sell tickets in J'ville and raise the viewership in Florida. (If I am surprised, then that's good for the Broncos, right?) There has been some history with Quinn that is not all that reassuring, although I grant some interest in his potential, and the overall suckiness of Cleveland weighs heavily. But he, too, will need some training to overcome three years of pi$$ poor coaching. If you are convinced that Brandstater is ready to go, you need an emetic and an enema at the same time, followed by an alcohol bath.

With the revamped Oline coming up, I think Orton will be able to do much better. Granted, It does take a village for Orton to be able to get it done, but the fact is, he is getting a villiage of some 300+ pound body guards with moving parts. Moreover, there are new bodies on the DLine that promise at least some changes. IF Orton needs a village, then most QBs need at least a California strip mall to do their jobs as well.

In short, I believe that Orton can have a very remarkable season in the system this year owing to improvemts in personnel and in his own familiarity with the O playbook. The Denver "blurbites" and glorified bloggers just need to creat discussion and controversy while you take their ragsheets to the bird cage or otherwise recycle the pages as fishwrap and garbage packaging.

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Old 05-09-2010, 10:23 AM   #11
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Orton is terrible, but he's the best option going into 2010.

If things go south early in the season, he will be the odd man out going forward.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:26 AM   #12
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We are rebuilding so why the heck not.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post

Woody is the print version of Josina.
this
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:36 AM   #14
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Though I think Quinn or Tebow can beat Orton out handily by opening day, I don't see much of any point to trading him outside of more reps for our other QBs in camps/pre-season unless we find a team willing to trade something semi respectable (4th or higher) for him, which simply is not going to happen without someone being really desperate.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:44 AM   #15
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Trade Orton, sign Bulger.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:03 AM   #16
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Out of the 4 we have now, Orton is definitely odd man out to me. Cut ties now, get what you can get out of him before the season starts, and work with what we have. There's a star in there somewhere, and it's not Orton.
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:18 AM   #17
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Now that both Woody and Kisla have come out stating that this MUST happen, I know that it would be the wrong thing to do.

Woody just wants Tebow to get an early start, as he's already said that the IT boy will bring superbowls back to Denver. Kisla is just normally wrong about everything Broncos.

Don't forget Woody calling for Simms to start mid last season.

While I agree that we can't keep 4 QB's on the roster and should try to get something for one of them, NOW is not the time to decide who the keepers are.
End of camp/ pre-season is when McD will have a better idea of who should stay/ who is not .

And yes, Orton will probably be gone next year (if there IS a season) but we will probably get a compensatory 3rd for him leaving, at the least. Trading him for less than that is rediculous, and until the labor situation is resolved I doubt many teams will be willing to give up much more than that. Even if they give up more, it leaves us with a questionable QB position just when the D and O -line may be getting solid.

On top of that if Quinn takes 70% of the snaps his contract escalates to a significant amount....and no one thinks Tebow or TB are going to be better than Quinn at this point, do they ?
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:05 PM   #18
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Trade Orton as soon as possible and give the reps to the other 3 QBs.

Brady Quinn will be the starter and will look good. He is not a complete stiff and that alone will open up the playbook more than last year.

Tebow will be the #2 QB and will come in and gets some reps in some specially designed packages. If the team founders, he may start by the end of the year.

Brandstater will be the #3 QB.

Let's face it....Tebow was not drafted to sit for 2 or 3 years. Let Quinn start and see what we have in him. If he looks great, it's a good problem to have, as we can keep him for a year or two and trade him for some high picks. If for some reason Tebow does not progress and look good, we can keep playing Quinn. We know what we have in Orton....we need to see what Quinn can do as the starter.

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Old 05-09-2010, 12:17 PM   #19
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I'm very torn on this whole thing. To me, if Orton stayed healthy last season... we're probably sneaking in the playoffs. With an improved defense/line this year, I feel like we could make the playoffs with Orton.

Could we win a SB with him? Maybe, but it would take a stellar supporting cast, which we don't have yet.

The thing is, Quinn and Tebow are such wild cards. We KNOW Orton can win games when the system is functioning properly. He played great football in the first half last season. I just have a hard time with the notion of kicking him out of town and going with total unknowns at the position. That's a tough sell to your team, if you're McD.


That said, I DO believe we've got 3 very interesting prospects behind him. It won't shock me if one of them can step up... I'm just not sure how soon that will be.


Quinn seems the most likely option. He he can learn the system quickly... he'll be a more athletic version of Orton. Will he make as good of decisions with the ball? We'll see.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:27 PM   #20
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Whatever Kisla and Woody say. They're the masterminds.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:35 PM   #21
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Why trade now? It always seems that you run into a team that is just desperate for a Quarterback near the beginning of the season. Someone will get hurt...they always do. Let the four QB's duke it out and see who's left standing. Trade the one who is left out.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:38 PM   #22
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I think that Quinn coming into this year has already better skills to play QB than Orton has ever had.
That said, with the coaching of McDaniels he could potentially have a better year than Orton had last year in terms of efficiency and winning games we weren't supposed to win.

Playing Orton will not put us in any better position than we were last year.
We could all see his limited physical abilities that I'm not convinced will ever change.
Rather that go thru another season with a QB like Orton that we all know is not going to cut it, get Tebow in there.

I know a rookie QB as the starter is not very conventional, but what do we have to lose?
We have 3 QB's besides Orton that we know nothing about how they will perform under our system.

There's one way to find out. Let them compete for the gold in TC, and whoever wins it outright, should be the starter regardless of whether he's a rookie, a seasoned veteran, or a former 1st round pick yet to prove his worth.
I like Tebow chances to win the job under that criteria...
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:41 PM   #23
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At this point I think you need to look at like this. Yes Orton might be our best option this year. However we are rebuilding and chances of us getting to the dance are unfortunately slim.

My question is, is Orton the future QB for the next 10 years? Most would say no.

Trade Orton before the season and get what we can for him.

Give Quinn a shot. He was a high drafted QB that Played great in college and did not have a QB coach. Also he played for a ****y team. If he does not pan out make the best of what we can work with Rambow and move forward onto the future.

I just don't see us needing a QB that may get us to the playoffs but not the dance.

The last thing and I will shut up. I don't think Orton is a great guy to teach Rambow.. I think there playing styles are completely different.

I say we tell Orton. Thanks it was interesting. Don't feel too bad, you have a hot wife and move on.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Whatever Kisla and Woody say. They're the masterminds.
I know right? You'd think after the Chris Simms fiasco that Woody would be more tempered in his QB recommendations.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #25
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I don't like to read Woody's articles. Is there any mention of the fact that not only will the conditional pick for 2012 be higher, but so will Quinn's salary next year (by A LOT) if he starts more than 70% of the snaps this year?

The extra $4-5 million that Quinn will receive needs to be taken into account if you're just going to dump Orton so that Quinn can start. Orton's less than $1 million this year doesn't make up for that.
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