Have Aliens visited Earth

[robbieopperude]

One thing that I find interesting is the references that UFO activity severely picked up after our nuke testing.

[ShutDownPoster]

Sure, they came here a couple of billion years ago to make a pit stop and take a quick dump. That rotting piece of turd eventually evolved into who we are today :-)

[sisterhellfyre]

Originally Posted by ShutDownPoster

Sure, they came here a couple of billion years ago to make a pit stop and take a quick dump. That rotting piece of turd eventually evolved into who we are today :-)

No wonder so many humans are ****heads, then.

[ZONA]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

I pretty much agree with this post, except the mathmatics part. Yes, there are mathmatical equations that make such travels possible, but still highly unlikely.

One thing that some people mistakenly assume (not necessarily Alec in this post, but in general), is that evolution puts progress on an ever upward scale. That isn't the case. Most people assume that the longer a species exists, the more advanced it will become. Therefore, if a species has existed, say, two million years longer than humans, they would be more advanced than us. Of course, this isn't true. Just on Earth, there are many species that have existed far longer than humans, and yet we are the only species to have made the advancements we have. The advancements our species have made have been largely the result of blind luck, discoveries made by single individuals who often times weren't even looking to make the discoveries they made. Most of the technological advances have occured in the last two hundred years, after many millenia of ebb and flow between so called advancements and ignorance (compare the Dark Ages, for instance, with the Roman Empire). So, it may be that we Earthings are unique in our scientific/technological advancements/knowledge in the universe. It was a highly improbably occurance to begin with. In any case, I think that the probability that a species exists that could travel the vastness of the universe to find Earth (or, as Alec suggested, that even if they possessed those advancements that they would even find Earth) is highly unlikely.

Very well put. That is exactly correct. And just to add one more thing, each species is on a time clock right from the go. Use mankind as an example. As you said, we were not even the first species on this planet. By the time we came around, our Sun was already through half of it's life. And our Sun is about the perfect type of star for life to evolve. Many other stars are much bigger and burn out even faster, giving said species even less time to evolve and develop advanced technology. Then you also have the life term of the planet itself. Take Mars for example, it's believed to have had an atmosphere long ago. It's just that the planet being further away from the Sun and smaller then Earth, it's core cooled much faster, making it unable to sustain it's atmosphere. So any other living creatures on some planet far far away have to advance pretty quickly or their chances at developing technologies to sustain them through space travel become highly unlikely. Then throw in random astroid collisions and many many other things that can destroy all life on a planet, you have to get pretty lucky I'd say. Venus is another good example. It's in the so called "habital zone". It just had too much water vapor in it's atmosphere early on, which caused a major greenhouse reaction that just snowballed and now it's a furnace with atmosphereic pressure that is 10 times that of Earth. We have perfect examples right here in our own solar system that show us, plenty of things have to go just right for a species to live and thrive.

[Blart]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

I didn't really see you convey anything that can convince me that military people lying on there deathbed would feel the urge to lie about Roswell. Or, for that matter, the many other scientists and government officials who come out and say they worked on projects that involved UFO type technology. Yes, I believe some of them are probably doing it for fame or money but I just can't believe that humanity is so corruptible that a 80 to 90 year old man would tell a whopper of a lie just before dying. Not to mention people from that era of time have different standards and codes that they lived by.

I'm not saying they're lying. Sagan is much more delicate than me on this subject, so I'll let him explain:

SAGAN: If I were speaking to a group of abductees, I think the first thing I would do would be to tell them that I'm sure to many of them the pain that is expressed is genuine, that they're not just making this up. And it's very important to be compassionate. At the same time, I would stress that hallucinations are a human common place, and not a sign that you are crazy. And that absolutely clear hallucinations have occured to normal people and it has a compelling feeling of reality, but it's generated in the head.

And that being the case, I would ask them to try to be as objective as they can and see if anything like that might, in fact, explain what they said happened to them. And I'd remind them that children, universally, have terrible nightmares, especially around 7 to 11, and wake up from sleep absolutely terrified about a monster, a witch, a goblin, a demon, and why shouldn't some of us retain that? I mean, there's no question that those monsters don't exist and they're hiding in the closet or under the bed. That's something generated in the mind. Why should it all go away when we grow up? We should retain some of that. And could not something like that be an explanation?

I would try to simply ask them to adopt the scientific method of multiple working hypothesis. Right now, they have only one hypothesis and their minds are, in many cases, closed to the alternative. I would ask them to do a serious consideration of the alternative, see if it makes sense.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/carlsagan.html

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[ScottXray]

Originally Posted by ZONA

Very well put. That is exactly correct. And just to add one more thing, each species is on a time clock right from the go. Use mankind as an example. As you said, we were not even the first species on this planet. By the time we came around, our Sun was already through half of it's life. And our Sun is about the perfect type of star for life to evolve. Many other stars are much bigger and burn out even faster, giving said species even less time to evolve and develop advanced technology. Then you also have the life term of the planet itself. Take Mars for example, it's believed to have had an atmosphere long ago. It's just that the planet being further away from the Sun and smaller then Earth, it's core cooled much faster, making it unable to sustain it's atmosphere. So any other living creatures on some planet far far away have to advance pretty quickly or their chances at developing technologies to sustain them through space travel become highly unlikely. Then throw in random astroid collisions and many many other things that can destroy all life on a planet, you have to get pretty lucky I'd say. Venus is another good example. It's in the so called "habital zone". It just had too much water vapor in it's atmosphere early on, which caused a major greenhouse reaction that just snowballed and now it's a furnace with atmosphereic pressure that is 10 times that of Earth. We have perfect examples right here in our own solar system that show us, plenty of things have to go just right for a species to live and thrive.

True, there are examples in our system of how hard it is for life to Develope, and there is a timeline for each age that is a window of opportunity..

But you also need to look at Tough it is to kill ALL life on a planet. The Earth has had many extinctions in its history, but life always came back. Our species has developed in just the last 4 million years from a primate that was just starting to stand upright to where we are now. On the Cosmic scale that is but an eyeblink, a millisecond. In the last 10,000 we have gone from
stone age tool users to nuclear capable (most of it in the last 5000). Prior to that there was an ice age, so significant historical finds past that age are obscured and lost, but the thing is even we homo sapiens survived that period, in fact that is when we became dominant.

Our speed of development may be unusual , or it may be normal. I tend to think we are unusually fast, but that may be a result of the fact that we live on an active and changing planet. It may be that it is a necessity to have such a planet in order for evolution to be spurred to produce a species like us.

The dinosaurs ruled the planet for 50 million years. Their extiction by a planet killer comet led to the rise of the mammals as dominant life form (on Land) due to the power vacuum at the top of the food chain. Life is incredibly capable of adapting to extreme conditions. Sentient life is probably extremely rare, yes, but also the only one capable of Purposely spreading itself beyond its planet of origin. If we, as a species, can survive the next 1000 years I have no doubt that we will have established self sufficient colonies off this planet. Once that is done it then gives us the time to even modify ourselves through genetic engineering to be adapted to live in different environments that no base line human could survive in. Once that threshold is reached the timeline of developement is no longer a factor. Sentient life that reaches space and gets out of the "cradle" of its home planet is no longer limited.
And then the Stars are the limit!

[Dedhed]

It seems mathematically impossible given our knowledge of mathematics. Maybe we should start another thread debating whether alien life forms are more advanced than us, enabling them to surf the galaxies like we surf the web.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Dedhed

It seems mathematically impossible given our knowledge of mathematics. Maybe we should start another thread debating whether alien life forms are more advanced than us, enabling them to surf the galaxies like we surf the web.

QFT.

All we really know is what we don't know.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by ScottXray

True, there are examples in our system of how hard it is for life to Develope, and there is a timeline for each age that is a window of opportunity..

Given the breadth of the universe and our limited knowledge of even the closest of planets, I think it's possible that there are elements in existence which we have no knowledge of at all.

I think it's possible that other life forms could thrive on those elements similarly to how we thrive upon the basal elements found on earth.

I'm not sure whether that would make it easier for life to develop, but it's interesting to think about.

[NYBronco]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

QFT.

All we really know is what we don't know.

If we know what we don't know then don't we technically know it all?

[ZONA]

Originally Posted by ScottXray

True, there are examples in our system of how hard it is for life to Develope, and there is a timeline for each age that is a window of opportunity..

But you also need to look at Tough it is to kill ALL life on a planet. The Earth has had many extinctions in its history, but life always came back. Our species has developed in just the last 4 million years from a primate that was just starting to stand upright to where we are now. On the Cosmic scale that is but an eyeblink, a millisecond. In the last 10,000 we have gone from
stone age tool users to nuclear capable (most of it in the last 5000). Prior to that there was an ice age, so significant historical finds past that age are obscured and lost, but the thing is even we homo sapiens survived that period, in fact that is when we became dominant.

Our speed of development may be unusual , or it may be normal. I tend to think we are unusually fast, but that may be a result of the fact that we live on an active and changing planet. It may be that it is a necessity to have such a planet in order for evolution to be spurred to produce a species like us.

The dinosaurs ruled the planet for 50 million years. Their extiction by a planet killer comet led to the rise of the mammals as dominant life form (on Land) due to the power vacuum at the top of the food chain. Life is incredibly capable of adapting to extreme conditions. Sentient life is probably extremely rare, yes, but also the only one capable of Purposely spreading itself beyond its planet of origin. If we, as a species, can survive the next 1000 years I have no doubt that we will have established self sufficient colonies off this planet. Once that is done it then gives us the time to even modify ourselves through genetic engineering to be adapted to live in different environments that no base line human could survive in. Once that threshold is reached the timeline of developement is no longer a factor. Sentient life that reaches space and gets out of the "cradle" of its home planet is no longer limited.
And then the Stars are the limit!

That's not entirely accurate. In space, there is always a timeline. For example, let's say we have the ability to travel in space at great speeds. Let's use something close to light speed, although going even close to that speed is almost unrealistic. It would take 100,000 + years to travel to the other side of our own galaxy. Sure there are plenty of other stars in our galaxy and even if we found a new home in some other solar system in the MilkyWay, the clock is still ticking. Andromeda is set to smash into the MilkyWay and being in the middle of a galactic collision is no place to be. So we would need to travel well beyond even where Andromeda is today. We're talking millions of light years. There is always a clock ticking in space, somewhere from some terrible event that will happen.

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by Blart

I'm not saying they're lying. Sagan is much more delicate than me on this subject, so I'll let him explain:

SAGAN: If I were speaking to a group of abductees, I think the first thing I would do would be to tell them that I'm sure to many of them the pain that is expressed is genuine, that they're not just making this up. And it's very important to be compassionate. At the same time, I would stress that hallucinations are a human common place, and not a sign that you are crazy. And that absolutely clear hallucinations have occured to normal people and it has a compelling feeling of reality, but it's generated in the head.

And that being the case, I would ask them to try to be as objective as they can and see if anything like that might, in fact, explain what they said happened to them. And I'd remind them that children, universally, have terrible nightmares, especially around 7 to 11, and wake up from sleep absolutely terrified about a monster, a witch, a goblin, a demon, and why shouldn't some of us retain that? I mean, there's no question that those monsters don't exist and they're hiding in the closet or under the bed. That's something generated in the mind. Why should it all go away when we grow up? We should retain some of that. And could not something like that be an explanation?

I would try to simply ask them to adopt the scientific method of multiple working hypothesis. Right now, they have only one hypothesis and their minds are, in many cases, closed to the alternative. I would ask them to do a serious consideration of the alternative, see if it makes sense.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/aliens/carlsagan.html

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I think the idea of a Hallucination works fine for people who claim they were abducted or through hypnosis find out they were abducted. This quote doesn't cover the fact that officers in the military on there death bed sweared on there life that they covered up two alien crashes in Roswell. Then you look at that facts that.
A: something really strange happened in Roswell
B: Somewhere between ten and fifteen civilians claimed to have saw bodies and metal that was of other worldness
C: Officers who were stationed in Roswell, on there deathbed, sweared to the coverup.

I just can't believe that we had a secret "weather balloon"

Extraordinary evidence is very debatable. I would argue that if you researched some of the extraordinary things that abductees have had implanted inside of them you may find that interesting.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by ZONA

That's not entirely accurate. In space, there is always a timeline. For example, let's say we have the ability to travel in space at great speeds. Let's use something close to light speed, although going even close to that speed is almost unrealistic. It would take 100,000 + years to travel to the other side of our own galaxy. Sure there are plenty of other stars in our galaxy and even if we found a new home in some other solar system in the MilkyWay, the clock is still ticking. Andromeda is set to smash into the MilkyWay and being in the middle of a galactic collision is no place to be. So we would need to travel well beyond even where Andromeda is today. We're talking millions of light years. There is always a clock ticking in space, somewhere from some terrible event that will happen.

What if other life forms have been in existence for millions of years and have developed technology to literally teleport and cover millions of light years of distance in no time at all?

[Mr.Meanie]

Originally Posted by atomicbloke

I do not know enough about the physics of space travel to give an informed answer.

Since the thread starter intended this to be a serious poll and not just a fun one, I will abstain from voting.

Seriously, how am I supposed to vote on a topic I know nothing about?

That's why god invented Google and Wikipedia

[Broncos4tw]

Yes, pretty sure they have been. There is a sizable mountain of evidence to support that they have, and still are. There are quite a few -very- important cases, that no one has gotten close to explaining away. When craft are so advanced that they can only belong to a superpower nation or are not from around these parts, makes it easier to break down.

And I for a moment, don't believe that they have tested black projects over major cities, for extended periods.

[daysofcoleco]

Bees.
Yes bees are aliens. They came a long time ago and like earth flowers so they stayed. Who else but an alien could make honey out of a flower?

Also jellyfish are alien commandos.

[maher_tyler]

[Blart]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

I think the idea of a Hallucination works fine for people who claim they were abducted or through hypnosis find out they were abducted. This quote doesn't cover the fact that officers in the military on there death bed sweared on there life that they covered up two alien crashes in Roswell. Then you look at that facts that.
A: something really strange happened in Roswell
B: Somewhere between ten and fifteen civilians claimed to have saw bodies and metal that was of other worldness
C: Officers who were stationed in Roswell, on there deathbed, sweared to the coverup.

I just can't believe that we had a secret "weather balloon"

Extraordinary evidence is very debatable. I would argue that if you researched some of the extraordinary things that abductees have had implanted inside of them you may find that interesting.

You don't have to believe the "weather balloon" story, it could very well be false. And if it is false, if there is a coverup or an oversight or an accident, that doesn't make advanced alien beings visting earth, or flying monsters, or angels and demons the only other hypotheses. A UFO is just that - an unidentified flying object.

Millions of objects on our planet can be thrust into the sky in millions of ways, and not all are instantly identifiable. Hence, unidentified flying objects. That most people insist the word "UFO" means "alien visitor" speaks well for the human imagination.

Trusting a former military officer's word is a logical fallacy, known as an Argument from Authority. He may not be lying, he may not be hallucinating, hey may not be old and on his deathbed and senile, he could be telling the truth. But there's no way to verify his claim.

As for the alien abductee's, what was implanted inside of them? The alien captain's map charting out his home planet which we can contact with radio? Plans to build a spaceship that we can test and use? The answer to any number of humanity's deepest mathmetical, biological, or physics questions? Heavy elements that don't exist on earth? Materials that have bizarre properties, isotopic ratio's not found on earth? Anything that would give scientific credit to those stories?

Unfortunately we have none of those. Instead, the best evidence for aliens that's been produced are scars and parts of objects consisting of earth materials. Nothing extraordinary enough to confirm such extraordinary claims.

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by ZONA

That's not entirely accurate. In space, there is always a timeline. For example, let's say we have the ability to travel in space at great speeds. Let's use something close to light speed, although going even close to that speed is almost unrealistic. It would take 100,000 + years to travel to the other side of our own galaxy. Sure there are plenty of other stars in our galaxy and even if we found a new home in some other solar system in the MilkyWay, the clock is still ticking. Andromeda is set to smash into the MilkyWay and being in the middle of a galactic collision is no place to be. So we would need to travel well beyond even where Andromeda is today. We're talking millions of light years. There is always a clock ticking in space, somewhere from some terrible event that will happen.

One thing that I will just point out is that the mathematics that we understand and apply can be entirely different than how another civilization applies or understands mathematics. We are always learning. Perhaps the speed of light is just a equation that we currently understand and that we can't comprehend any other type of travel or speed at this time.

Spoonboy to Neo from the Matrix:

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by Blart

You don't have to believe the "weather balloon" story, it could very well be false. And if it is false, if there is a coverup or an oversight or an accident, that doesn't make advanced alien beings visting earth, or flying monsters, or angels and demons the only other hypotheses. A UFO is just that - an unidentified flying object.

Millions of objects on our planet can be thrust into the sky in millions of ways, and not all are instantly identifiable. Hence, unidentified flying objects. That most people insist the word "UFO" means "alien visitor" speaks well for the human imagination.

Trusting a former military officer's word is a logical fallacy, known as an Argument from Authority. He may not be lying, he may not be hallucinating, hey may not be old and on his deathbed and senile, he could be telling the truth. But there's no way to verify his claim.

As for the alien abductee's, what was implanted inside of them? The alien captain's map charting out his home planet which we can contact with radio? Plans to build a spaceship that we can test and use? The answer to any number of humanity's deepest mathmetical, biological, or physics questions? Heavy elements that don't exist on earth? Materials that have bizarre properties, isotopic ratio's not found on earth? Anything that would give scientific credit to those stories?

This has been found. Check out information on Dr. Roger Leir who has taken out at least 8 implants throughout the years. Inside of people in various locations of the anatomy he has found

Unfortunately we have none of those. Instead, the best evidence for aliens that's been produced are scars and parts of objects consisting of earth materials. Nothing extraordinary enough to confirm such extraordinary claims.

"Another strange thing was also discovered. In the tissue around each implant, there were numerous nerve endings that didn't belong there. None of the investigators could say why these nerve endings were there, but it suggests the possibility that the implants act as some kind of monitoring device through attachment to the nervous system.

When Derrel Sims got the objects back to Houston, his first test was to expose them to ultraviolet light. He found that they all glowed brilliant fluorescent green. Derrel has found in his research with abductees that patches of some substance, invisible to the naked eye but fluorescent under black light, sometimes show up on the abductee's body following an abduction. He suspects that whatever this substance is, it could result from direct physical contact with the body of the abductor. With this in mind, he said he was not surprised to see that the three removed objects were fluorescent."

Removed from known abductees inbetween the toes on a woman and in the wrist of a man.
See source for more info.
http://www.ufodigest.com/surgeon.html

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

One thing that I will just point out is that the mathematics that we understand and apply can be entirely different than how another civilization applies or understands mathematics. We are always learning. Perhaps the speed of light is just a equation that we currently understand and that we can't comprehend any other type of travel or speed at this time.

Spoonboy to Neo from the Matrix:

Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon.

This is a great point. Mathematics and science in general depend heavily on perspective. There are numerous examples of modern science being unable to explain ancient phenomena; due largely to the fact that we cannot comprehend the circumstances that surrounded the development of those things or have any insight into the motive or environmental tools present at the time they were created.

Given the fact that our science cannot understand things that were built by other humans on our own planet, it is easy to imagine that there could be a great deal of applied science and mathematics that is simply way beyond our current scope of understanding.

Imagine the idea of the internet to someone living 1500 years ago. Sending thoughts, words, images, etc through the ethos to anywhere in the world would be literally incomprehensible to someone who will never experience electricity in their lifetime. The internet would seem no less impossible to them
than intergalactic travel seems to us today.

[Blart]

Originally Posted by robbieopperude

"Another strange thing was also discovered. In the tissue around each implant, there were numerous nerve endings that didn't belong there. None of the investigators could say why these nerve endings were there, but it suggests the possibility that the implants act as some kind of monitoring device through attachment to the nervous system.

When Derrel Sims got the objects back to Houston, his first test was to expose them to ultraviolet light. He found that they all glowed brilliant fluorescent green. Derrel has found in his research with abductees that patches of some substance, invisible to the naked eye but fluorescent under black light, sometimes show up on the abductee's body following an abduction. He suspects that whatever this substance is, it could result from direct physical contact with the body of the abductor. With this in mind, he said he was not surprised to see that the three removed objects were fluorescent."

Removed from known abductees inbetween the toes on a woman and in the wrist of a man.
See source for more info.
http://www.ufodigest.com/surgeon.html

Dr. Leir prefers to publish his findings in alien books, rather than medical journals. He doesn't offer up his green-glowing evidence to other scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mokuDHh0nkg part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAMmiXra9Jo part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Se7rOL_XQs part 3 (Dr. Leir at 3 min)

[robbieopperude]

Originally Posted by Blart

Dr. Leir prefers to publish his findings in alien books, rather than medical journals. He doesn't offer up his green-glowing evidence to other scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mokuDHh0nkg part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAMmiXra9Jo part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Se7rOL_XQs part 3 (Dr. Leir at 3 min)

I am on a shared network using satellite internet so we don't have enough bandwidth for me to view youtube clips. I do imagine that a medical journal wouldn't accept information that is unexplained.

I did read up that alot of other medical people say that the body has a funny way of producing things randomly so perhaps that is all it is. A small percentage of peoples bodies producing something out of the ordinary. The fact that they also claim to be abductees has to say something however.

What is your explanation for alleged abductees also having completely out of the ordinary implants inside of there body?

[Blart]

The video showed Roger Leir removing some metal objects covered in blood, and a mobile fat ball from people's bodies. I'm not sure what a foot doctor was interested in someone's arm for, but he gave fantastic explanations about how the metal was covered in biological material, and the fat ball would "run away" from one's finger. Another doctor watching the video explained that such things were commonplace, metal is usually covered in blood and tissue when exiting the body, and fat tissue is known to coagulate and become mobile.

When new discoveries are made in any field, scientists publish them in peer-reviewed journals, and to be published is both an honor and a career boost. The fact that Roger Leir avoids this method, and writes alien abduction books and a website, should put his motives and methods in question. As should the fact that he's on probation for medical negligence in California.

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

I pretty much agree with this post, except the mathmatics part. Yes, there are mathmatical equations that make such travels possible, but still highly unlikely.

The anti-matter is the key and the mathematics is not only possible but, given a sufficient amount of anti-matter, are likely.

With an "endless" supply of anti-matter, or the ability to create it on the go from galactic "debris" or whatever, one could accelerate a spaceship indefinitely. Never reaching the speed of light but continuing to incrementally get closer to it (99.9%, 99.99%, 99.999%). Mathematically, accelerating this way one could travel the ENTIRE universe in roughly 12 local years (relativistic effects would mean quadrillions of years on Earth, closer to the speed of light you get, slower time moves for you locally though). Acceleration at 1G, which solves the lack of gravity issue.

One thing that some people mistakenly assume (not necessarily Alec in this post, but in general), is that evolution puts progress on an ever upward scale. That isn't the case. Most people assume that the longer a species exists, the more advanced it will become. Therefore, if a species has existed, say, two million years longer than humans, they would be more advanced than us. Of course, this isn't true. Just on Earth, there are many species that have existed far longer than humans, and yet we are the only species to have made the advancements we have. The advancements our species have made have been largely the result of blind luck, discoveries made by single individuals who often times weren't even looking to make the discoveries they made. Most of the technological advances have occured in the last two hundred years, after many millenia of ebb and flow between so called advancements and ignorance (compare the Dark Ages, for instance, with the Roman Empire). So, it may be that we Earthings are unique in our scientific/technological advancements/knowledge in the universe. It was a highly improbably occurance to begin with. In any case, I think that the probability that a species exists that could travel the vastness of the universe to find Earth (or, as Alec suggested, that even if they possessed those advancements that they would even find Earth) is highly unlikely.

Evolutions primary goal is not intelligence but rather survival. We would of course be speaking only of those species that had evolved a sufficient level of intelligence to formulate complex thoughts and have a way to record and pass down that information to the next generation. This is where evolutions effects on the advancement of a species ends however and intelligence and cognitive thought take over. Any species who can advance technology - will advance technology and it is driven out of need and curiosity.