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Old 04-16-2010, 10:29 AM   #1
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Default SEC goes after Goldman Sachs

All the articles you could want to read on the situation:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GS

But let's be realistic, as much as Goldman DESERVES to get burnt to the ground, they buy and sell the SEC and this is just a token move by the SEC to look LESS corrupt.

Goldman (GS) is a screaming buy right now, imo.
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:47 AM   #2
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Their actions recently were nothing short of treason. But they own washington so nothing will happen.
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Old 04-16-2010, 10:54 AM   #3
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Their actions recently were nothing short of treason. But they own washington so nothing will happen.
It is treason, and I think something is going to come of it.
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:00 AM   #4
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It is treason, and I think something is going to come of it.
I'll bet at max it's like a 15 million dollar fine (the approx value of what they're accused of in this instance).

15 mill vs 8-9 billion lost in market cap today... hmmmmmmm...
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:23 PM   #5
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Slap on the wrist. Goldman scum runs the white house. Ruebin, Pauson, Geitner all came over from sachs.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:25 PM   #6
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I actually think more will come outo f this then people realize. If nothing else, its a horrible damaged reputation. It'll be interesting to watch it transpire. And i'm glad its happening, they are scum
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:27 PM   #7
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Goldman is famous for being all about Goldman, not the investors. This doesn't surprise. Strangely, about a quarter of my primary (elementary) school class work for them now.
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Old 04-16-2010, 01:57 PM   #8
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It is treason, and I think something is going to come of it.
The chance of Goldman Sachs getting anything more than a token penalty or a few sacrificial lambs being offered up for 'justice' are about the same as Congress taking note of the economy and voting themselves a pay decrease of 1 to 2 percent.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:06 PM   #9
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All the articles you could want to read on the situation:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GS

But let's be realistic, as much as Goldman DESERVES to get burnt to the ground, they buy and sell the SEC and this is just a token move by the SEC to look LESS corrupt.

Goldman (GS) is a screaming buy right now, imo.


Every once in a while, Rev.... you get it right.

I'm not sure I'd load up on Monday, but I'll be looking at leaps some time probably mid-next week. This thing needs to play out a bit, and the market is probably do to snip off 10%-15%, anyway.

But, every time it's gotten down to these levels, or near.. it's been an eventual payoff.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:09 PM   #10
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GOOG also just got a 7% haircut after a solid earnings report. People should be watching that one for a time to get in, as well, imo.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:12 PM   #11
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The chance of Goldman Sachs getting anything more than a token penalty or a few sacrificial lambs being offered up for 'justice' are about the same as Congress taking note of the economy and voting themselves a pay decrease of 1 to 2 percent.
It won't be a token guy. It'll be the guy that pulled the illegal **** in securities.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:05 PM   #12
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Wish our nation would move away from this casino economy and go back to the fundamentals of sustainable economic growth and progress - where value creation, both in terms of manufacturing and services are rewarded, and shift the focus away from the luckiest guy on the casino table calling the shots.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:08 PM   #13
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This is all BS. This is the administration trying to gain populist sentiment during big bank earning season, which will be pretty damn good this quarter. BoA beat by a lot, as will the other banks, who took, and for most part repaid, their shares of TARP over the last year based on their respective agreements with the government.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:16 PM   #14
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Wish our nation would move away from this casino economy and go back to the fundamentals of sustainable economic growth and progress - where value creation, both in terms of manufacturing and services are rewarded, and shift the focus away from the luckiest guy on the casino table calling the shots.
It's a global economy now. Most Americans wanted free trade because it enhances our choices at the store. But its a double edged sword.

If I can make higher profits manufacturing in China or Bangladesh than in the US, there is no way in hell I would have operations here. I mean, even if the Chinese were selling factory b-grade items out the backdoor, I would still make higher profits than if I had to pay ten times for an American worker that might only be twice as efficient (if even that).

Second, services are generally local. You can't sell haircuts abroad. They can only be done here. And with citizens and the government largely broke, there is a natural ceiling to how many services you can sell right now.

So you have what we have today.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:46 PM   #15
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Every once in a while, Rev.... you get it right.

I'm not sure I'd load up on Monday, but I'll be looking at leaps some time probably mid-next week. This thing needs to play out a bit, and the market is probably do to snip off 10%-15%, anyway.

But, every time it's gotten down to these levels, or near.. it's been an eventual payoff.
GS will be old news by Monday. VXX is probably the way to play a dump like this, but its probably already too late.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:57 PM   #16
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It's a global economy now. Most Americans wanted free trade because it enhances our choices at the store. But its a double edged sword.

If I can make higher profits manufacturing in China or Bangladesh than in the US, there is no way in hell I would have operations here. I mean, even if the Chinese were selling factory b-grade items out the backdoor, I would still make higher profits than if I had to pay ten times for an American worker that might only be twice as efficient (if even that).

Second, services are generally local. You can't sell haircuts abroad. They can only be done here. And with citizens and the government largely broke, there is a natural ceiling to how many services you can sell right now.

So you have what we have today.
I don't think you got my post.

I never complained about any of the things you mentioned.

I complained that our economy is set up in such a way that folks who provide the services or actually do the value creation work, do not get rewarded. The system rewards folks who are successful at manipulating the money in the form of derivatives, treasury bonds etc. True, they create liquidity, which is a service too. But it goes away from the fundamentals of a sustainable economic system.

For example, the Miracle of Hudson landing, when Captain Sullengerger saved all those lives by executing a difficult landing in the Hudson river.... what was his reward? A $40,000 pay cut. He worked for US Airways for over 30 years. The primary value creation job in an airline is flying planes right? But how did all those pilots get rewarded? By having their pensions accumulated over decades of service wiped out when the company was acquired by America West. The hotshot who managed the treasury for US Airways made way way more money that Captain Sullenberger can ever dream of. The guy who wrote the M&A deal made much more in commissions than Captan Sullenberger's yearly wages.

Anyways this is just an example. The economic system is set up such that it is far more likely to reward you if you are in to trading bonds and derivatives than if you involved in a value creating job or service yourself.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:14 PM   #17
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I don't think you got my post.

I never complained about any of the things you mentioned.

I complained that our economy is set up in such a way that folks who provide the services or actually do the value creation work, do not get rewarded. The system rewards folks who are successful at manipulating the money in the form of derivatives, treasury bonds etc. True, they create liquidity, which is a service too. But it goes away from the fundamentals of a sustainable economic system.

For example, the Miracle of Hudson landing, when Captain Sullengerger saved all those lives by executing a difficult landing in the Hudson river.... what was his reward? A $40,000 pay cut. He worked for US Airways for over 30 years. The primary value creation job in an airline is flying planes right? But how did all those pilots get rewarded? By having their pensions accumulated over decades of service wiped out when the company was acquired by America West. The hotshot who managed the treasury for US Airways made way way more money that Captain Sullenberger can ever dream of. The guy who wrote the M&A deal made much more in commissions than Captan Sullenberger's yearly wages.

Anyways this is just an example. The economic system is set up such that it is far more likely to reward you if you are in to trading bonds and derivatives than if you involved in a value creating job or service yourself.
I get what you are saying. But I just can't remember a time when the C-level executive or the investment banker working mergers and acquisitions wasn't making ten times the more than the guy who is the engine of company. That's why there have always been stereotypes of Wall St fatcats Gordon Gekko etc.

It just seems bad now because Wall St is making profits and people are sitting unemployed for months to years on end. And the taxpayer had really no choice but to subsidize all of this because of the dire economy.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:23 PM   #18
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And Wall Street isn't lending, it playing computer games.

There was no "credit score" when I grew up.

It wasn't created for us. It was created to rape us.

Goldman was telling customer to buy when they knew the bought a AAA rating thru bribe.\\

Then they leveraged their bets and insured them thru AIG.

It's not rocket science.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:25 PM   #19
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15 million dolllar fine?

RU ****ing kidding me?

Try 100 billion.

These ****wads are supposed to be protecting us, not destroying us.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:26 PM   #20
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A family member of mine asked how much do you want to bet Goldman probably shorted themselves in front of the announcement, because you know the SEC warned them, and recouped the fine by the close of the market today.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by atomicbloke View Post
I don't think you got my post.

I never complained about any of the things you mentioned.

I complained that our economy is set up in such a way that folks who provide the services or actually do the value creation work, do not get rewarded. The system rewards folks who are successful at manipulating the money in the form of derivatives, treasury bonds etc. True, they create liquidity, which is a service too. But it goes away from the fundamentals of a sustainable economic system.

For example, the Miracle of Hudson landing, when Captain Sullengerger saved all those lives by executing a difficult landing in the Hudson river.... what was his reward? A $40,000 pay cut. He worked for US Airways for over 30 years. The primary value creation job in an airline is flying planes right? But how did all those pilots get rewarded? By having their pensions accumulated over decades of service wiped out when the company was acquired by America West. The hotshot who managed the treasury for US Airways made way way more money that Captain Sullenberger can ever dream of. The guy who wrote the M&A deal made much more in commissions than Captan Sullenberger's yearly wages.

Anyways this is just an example. The economic system is set up such that it is far more likely to reward you if you are in to trading bonds and derivatives than if you involved in a value creating job or service yourself.
You might be interested in listening to this audio essay by Ron Paul about this very thing...
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by gtown View Post
It's a global economy now. Most Americans wanted free trade because it enhances our choices at the store. But its a double edged sword.

If I can make higher profits manufacturing in China or Bangladesh than in the US, there is no way in hell I would have operations here. I mean, even if the Chinese were selling factory b-grade items out the backdoor, I would still make higher profits than if I had to pay ten times for an American worker that might only be twice as efficient (if even that).

Second, services are generally local. You can't sell haircuts abroad. They can only be done here. And with citizens and the government largely broke, there is a natural ceiling to how many services you can sell right now.

So you have what we have today.

There is nothing wrong with U.S. corporations going overseas to make their products and set up shop the choice is theirs to make. However, the import-export tariff laws which were instituted from the 1700's - 1980 need to be brought back into place. Corporations can't use the excuse of Global trade inorder to be allowed to go to 3rd World Countries and exploit the labor and while paying those workers peanuts.

Meanwhile these American company's are allowed to import their products BACK into AMERICA w/o paying a tariff tax/fees. In other words the tariff tax that should be leveled on American companies re-importing their products to the U.S. should the same amount it would have cost to produced those products in America.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:51 PM   #23
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There is nothing wrong with U.S. corporations going overseas to make their products and set up shop the choice is theirs to make. However, the import-export tariff laws which were instituted from the 1700's - 1980 need to be brought back into place. Corporations can't use the excuse of Global trade inorder to be allowed to go to 3rd World Countries and exploit the labor and while paying those workers peanuts.

Meanwhile these American company's are allowed to import their products BACK into AMERICA w/o paying a tariff tax/fees. In other words the tariff tax that should be leveled on American companies re-importing their products to the U.S. should the same amount it would have cost to produced those products in America.

The tarrif is to protect American products here at home, not overseas. Why would we slap a tax on goods made by American companies overseas that are sold in America for Americans?

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Old 04-16-2010, 09:43 PM   #24
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http://media.mises.org/mp3/audiobook...rosperity.mp3/.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:33 AM   #25
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A family member of mine asked how much do you want to bet Goldman probably shorted themselves in front of the announcement, because you know the SEC warned them, and recouped the fine by the close of the market today.
Wouldn't surprise me a touch.
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