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Old 04-11-2010, 08:28 AM   #1
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Default More evidence that Baja was correct about Shanny copying McD.

Klis reading the Mane again?

mike klis
Getting personal in new race
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 04/11/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT



There will be a new three-team division in the NFL this year.

As it is specific to past and present Broncos, we'll call it the Mr. B division.

Here's how the new division will line up in the hearts and souls of those who remain unsure as to whether Broncos owner Pat Bowlen made all the correct moves in the past year or so:

Mr. B

Josh McDaniels and the Broncos

Mike Shanahan and the Redskins

Jay Cutler and the Bears

Never mind that the Broncos play neither the Redskins nor Bears this year. And forget that the Mr. B Division, sans Shanny, combined for a 19-29 record last year.

To those currently living in 60-degree sunshine afternoons at the base of the Rocky Mountains, the Mr. B Division promises to be the NFL's most captivating race in 2010.

In the interest of full disclosure, this new division idea was initially submitted through a comment posted beneath the Broncos online mailbag last week. As I am the co-author of the Broncos mailbag (along with the various letter writers), I am entitled to accept random acts of cleverness.

The Mr. B Division began to form after the 2008 season when Bowlen made the daring decision to fire Shanahan, his head coach of 14 years, and replace him with McDaniels, a man of 32 years.

McDaniels, who will celebrate his 34th birthday April 22 presumably by selecting the Broncos' next superstar with the No. 11 overall pick in the NFL draft, quickly found himself at the center of controversy when he irked Cutler, the talented if mistake-prone quarterback he inherited from Shanahan.

Bowlen stepped in and backed his new coach by ordering Cutler to be traded.

Shanahan then stepped back in by accepting the head coaching position with the Redskins.

And the Mr. B Division was created.

Curiously, soon after Shanahan took the job in Washington, he alienated the Redskins' three biggest stars in Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and Jason Campbell.

What made this curious is Shanahan didn't receive anywhere near the guff McDaniels received in his first season for making similar roster-cleaning maneuvers.

Why? Because McDaniels was 32 when he took the job. In our society, youth is like a car changing lanes — it triggers people to fearlessly exhibit rage.


Just as McDaniels did with Cutler, Shanahan put Haynesworth on the trading block. The difference was, Haynesworth was to collect a $21 million bonus on April 1 and $36.9 million over the next three seasons, while Cutler was scheduled to draw only a $1.035 million salary, $6 million over two years, at the time of his trade.

McDaniels didn't care much for incumbent running back Peyton Hillis, bringing in Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter. Shanahan doesn't care much for Portis, bringing in Larry Johnson and Willie Parker.

McDaniels didn't care much for Cutler, trading him for two first-round draft picks and Kyle Orton.

Shanahan didn't care much for Campbell, keeping him while acquiring Donovan McNabb.

The McNabb trade was considered genius. The Cutler deal was assaulted.

Perception is at the opaque root of the Mr. B Division.

It becomes a real competition week to week in 2010, then year to year, when the results are compared. McDaniels' Broncos vs. Shanahan's Redskins vs. Cutler's Bears.

They all mean business. The Bears signed Julius Peppers. Shanahan acquired McNabb. McDaniels added an entire new defensive line anchored by Jamal Williams.

The truth about the Mr. B Division: First one to the Super Bowl wins.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:52 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
Curiously, soon after Shanahan took the job in Washington, he alienated the Redskins' three biggest stars in Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and Jason Campbell.

What made this curious is Shanahan didn't receive anywhere near the guff McDaniels received in his first season for making similar roster-cleaning maneuvers.

Why? Because McDaniels was 32 when he took the job. In our society, youth is like a car changing lanes — it triggers people to fearlessly exhibit rage.


Just as McDaniels did with Cutler, Shanahan put Haynesworth on the trading block. The difference was, Haynesworth was to collect a $21 million bonus on April 1 and $36.9 million over the next three seasons, while Cutler was scheduled to draw only a $1.035 million salary, $6 million over two years, at the time of his trade.

McDaniels didn't care much for incumbent running back Peyton Hillis, bringing in Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter. Shanahan doesn't care much for Portis, bringing in Larry Johnson and Willie Parker.

McDaniels didn't care much for Cutler, trading him for two first-round draft picks and Kyle Orton.

Shanahan didn't care much for Campbell, keeping him while acquiring Donovan McNabb.

The McNabb trade was considered genius. The Cutler deal was assaulted.
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:01 AM   #3
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Well, it did give him at least one column so far, and he will see if he can "stimulate" the fan base to even give a shyte about those other teams during the season. The writers are reaching to find things to write about when it comes to the Broncos. This article is just BS..............
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:02 AM   #4
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Dumb.

Everybody's just tryin to win a mother****in game, nothing more.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:03 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MangoBuffs View Post
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.
Rep
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:06 AM   #6
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Its absolutely stupid to say that Shanahan is 'copying' anyone.

I do know one thing, McD DOES need to establish and EARN respect before he can purely DEMAND it as if he has an ounce of clout.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MangoBuffs View Post
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.
Excellent post and dead on
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:10 AM   #8
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Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
They pretty much are actually.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:14 AM   #9
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They pretty much are actually.
Not at all, actually.........
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoBuffs View Post
This is such a reach it's not even funny. This has zero to do with age, and has EVERYTHING to do with the players involved and the situations:
1) Haynesworth - Signs a massive contracts and produces zilch and gets hurt during the year. You can see why fans are frustrated.
2) Portis - Not producing, getting older, etc. And besides that, Shanny knows RBs.
3) Campbell - Heading towards bust status. I think they screwed up his development by changing coaches, but we can't turn the clock back now. Winning begins and ends with the QB, and Washington has not won a lot.

Now, the Broncos:
1) Cutler - Ton of hype, huge arm, 70 yard passes to Javon Walker, etc. Even if the fan base was split on Cutler (bad INTs, etc) he had enough support as the franchise to cause an outrage. Cutler and Campbell are NOT the same thing.
2) Hillis - The guy was productive and just benched for no reason.
3) Marshall - Similar to the Cutler thing. The guy is a Pro Bowl WR, a Top-5 guy, whatever. There's going to be outrage over him and the coach feuding. The guy proved it on the field every time he played.


Add this:
1) Shanny was the guy in Denver for years. An institution. People are going to hate change.
2) Washington had no direction at all. Coaches came and went. That fanbase will accept whatever Shanny does. I know I would in the same situation.


This "age" argument by the author is ridiculous at best. It has zero to do with that, and everything to do with each franchises' history and the players involved.

You argue age had little to do with it, but turn around and create holes in your theory.

Shanahan does know RB's. His Bronco teams regularly put up at least 1800 rushing yards a season for 13 years. He has been coaching longer than McDaniels has been alive. Shanahan has a kid over 30...who also coaches. There is less outrage over Mike upsetting DC cornerstones like Portis and Haynesworth simply because he has been a HC before, he's a bit older and has been around the block a few times.

If McDaniels was in his 40s and had been a HC somewhere else before arriving in Denver, I seriously doubt the same uproar would have occured over Cutler or Marshall or the inexplicable blowups over Hillis and Scheffler. Especially if he had the same track record as Mike Shanahan. (championship game appearances). It also probably did not help that Bronco fans became spoiled. We never heard about "rebuilding" under Shanahan. It was always reloading or retooling.

The Broncos fanbase reactions to trading an overhyped QB says more about how we feel about Cutler than how the Broncos felt about Cutler. The guy had his dad turn in his playbook for Christsake. If that does not yell spineless, chinless, gutless wonder I dont know what does. Cutler was a probowler by default. His lapses in games nearly always led to points or momentum shifts for the other team. If you recall, Plummer and Griese were probowlers as well. No one cried when they got canned and replaced.

Hillis was not benched. He could not beat out a converted ILB or Lamont Jordan for playing time.

Marshall produces on the field...if/when he has his head right. When it is right, he is a dominant player, and arguably the best WR in the game. How often is his head right? That problem existed before McDaniels became coach, or Marshall became a pro player. A talented headcase. But its suddenly McDaniels' fault because Marshall is acting up?


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Old 04-11-2010, 09:44 AM   #11
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Its absolutely stupid to say that Shanahan is 'copying' anyone.

I do know one thing, McD DOES need to establish and EARN respect before he can purely DEMAND it as if he has an ounce of clout.

Not at all.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:52 AM   #12
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They pretty much are actually.
Two QBs that the new head coaches didn't trust.

Uncanny how similar they are.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:59 AM   #13
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Two QBs that the new head coaches didn't trust.

Uncanny how similar they are.
Cleaning out the locker room of bad apples clearly indicates Shanny is copying Josh. Ask yourself when did Shanny ever worry about team chemistry (Dale Carter / I Hop) We see example after example the Shanny is following Josh's lead and I'm not kidding!
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:05 AM   #14
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Cleaning out the locker room of bad apples clearly indicates Shanny is copying Josh. Ask yourself when did Shanny ever worry about team chemistry (Dale Carter / I Hop) We see example after example the Shanny is following Josh's lead and I'm not kidding!
The 'Team First' concept was brought in by McD and now Shanny is doing the same in DC. Shanny knows a good approach to team building when he see's one.

He didn't waste his year away from the game.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:10 AM   #15
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The 'Team First' concept was brought in by McD and now Shanny is doing the same in DC. Shanny knows a good approach to team building when he see's one.

He didn't waste his year away from the game.
I think it demonstrates Shanny's greatness that he is willing to swallow his pride and adopt winning fresh new ideas from a 32 year old first year coach. Shanny has come a long ways.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:15 AM   #16
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This is such a reach it's not even funny. .

New Guy...

[ ] really gets it
[x] should read more before posting
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:18 AM   #17
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Once McD has won multiple superbowls, and established a legacy of a winning record for more than a decade, people might give him a bigger leash and not question every seemingly moronic move from him.

Just a thought.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:24 AM   #18
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Once McD has won multiple superbowls, and established a legacy of a winning record for more than a decade, people might give him a bigger leash and not question every seemingly moronic move from him.

Just a thought.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:28 AM   #19
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Once McD has won multiple superbowls, and established a legacy of a winning record for more than a decade, people might give him a bigger leash and not question every seemingly moronic move from him.

Just a thought.
What seemingly moronic move would you be talking about
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:32 AM   #20
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You argue age had little to do with it, but turn around and create holes in your theory.

Shanahan does know RB's. His Bronco teams regularly put up at least 1800 rushing yards a season for 13 years. He has been coaching longer than McDaniels has been alive. Shanahan has a kid over 30...who also coaches. There is less outrage over Mike upsetting DC cornerstones like Portis and Haynesworth simply because he has been a HC before, he's a bit older and has been around the block a few times.

If McDaniels was in his 40s and had been a HC somewhere else before arriving in Denver, I seriously doubt the same uproar would have occured over Cutler or Marshall or the inexplicable blowups over Hillis and Scheffler. Especially if he had the same track record as Mike Shanahan. (championship game appearances). It also probably did not help that Bronco fans became spoiled. We never heard about "rebuilding" under Shanahan. It was always reloading or retooling.

The Broncos fanbase reactions to trading an overhyped QB says more about how we feel about Cutler than how the Broncos felt about Cutler. The guy had his dad turn in his playbook for Christsake. If that does not yell spineless, chinless, gutless wonder I dont know what does. Cutler was a probowler by default. His lapses in games nearly always led to points or momentum shifts for the other team. If you recall, Plummer and Griese were probowlers as well. No one cried when they got canned and replaced.

Hillis was not benched. He could not beat out a converted ILB or Lamont Jordan for playing time.

Marshall produces on the field...if/when he has his head right. When it is right, he is a dominant player, and arguably the best WR in the game. How often is his head right? That problem existed before McDaniels became coach, or Marshall became a pro player. A talented headcase. But its suddenly McDaniels' fault because Marshall is acting up?


1. Shanahan can't be copying Mcdaniels on Portis since that goes back to before Mcdaniels was anymore more than a quality assurance guy.

2. There is probably less outrage over Haynesworth because a: he is trending down faster than the Hindenburg and b: he didn't set any franchise records in the last 12 months.

3. Apparently it has been on right for the last 3 seasons by your metric, since he has consistently placed in the top 10 in the league over those years.

4. I agree with you that Shanahan has earned the right to clean house at least in the public mind, a championship pedigree as a head coach will do that.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:41 AM   #21
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4. I agree with you that Shanahan has earned the right to clean house at least in the public mind, a championship pedigree as a head coach will do that.
Mike Shanahan cleaned house when he arrived in Denver in 1994, with no "championship pedigree."

He turned over something like 40% of the roster the 1st year, and it was up to like 70% by the 2nd year.

So, it appears that great coaches will do what they do... regardless of the "public mind."

It doesn't appear if Shanahan or McDaniels was asking anyone's permission to turn over the rosters of their new teams as young coaches.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:52 AM   #22
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Not at all, actually.........
You're right...Campbell been much steadier in his play so far in their careers, so not fair to compare him to Cutler.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:52 AM   #23
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Yeah...It's unheard of for a coach to **** can a bunch of overpaid underachievers when he steps in.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:42 PM   #24
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You're right...Campbell been much steadier in his play so far in their careers, so not fair to compare him to Cutler.
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Old 04-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #25
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Shanahan got the guy he wanted, and had no leaks. McDaniels failed to get this guy - Casse-l and caused a locker room problem
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