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Old 03-26-2010, 06:36 PM   #1
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Default HDMI Cable question (gaming related)

So, recently bought a 120hz 46" Samsung LCD. LOVE it.

The problem though, is that there is enough lag to make a noticeable difference when I'm playing FPS games (i have a ps3) like Modern Warfare. For the rest of my games, it really doesn't make a difference.

After checking through some websites, I came up with a few solutions that reduced the lag, but there is STILL enough to make it frustrating. It's ever so slight, but it's there.

HDMI cables is where I'm asking for your help today, oh guru's of the flat screen. Came across this website http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#112 which helped clear up a few questions, but here's what I'm wondering. After discovering that there ARE in fact different classes of HDMI cables, is it possible that by buying a more expensive 1.3 version, it would eliminate the rest of the lag? Has anyone tried this with any kind of luck?

Here's the part of the website that piqued my curiousity " What’s new in the HDMI 1.3 Specification?
Higher speed: Although all previous versions of HDMI have had more than enough bandwidth to support all current HDTV formats, including full, uncompressed 1080p signals, HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
•Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail.
•Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 adds support for “x.v.Color™” (which is the consumer name describing the IEC 61966-2-4 xvYCC color standard), which removes current color space limitations and enables the display of any color viewable by the human eye.
•New mini connector: With small portable devices such as HD camcorders and still cameras demanding seamless connectivity to HDTVs, HDMI 1.3 offers a new, smaller form factor connector option.
•Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates automatic audio synching capabilities that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with total accuracy.
•New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™."

Basically, I love my t.v., but would love it even more IF I could reduce the lag a bit more.

SO. Anybody have thoughts or suggestions? Would a "newer" hdmi cable possibly solve the problem?

For clarifications sake it's a Samsung LN46C630.

I thought a 4ms refresh rate would be sufficient, but apparently I was wrong.

So far, to get the lag down, I've renamed the hdmi input to PC, turned on game mode, and turned off the BD wise. This was the best solution I've found thus far.
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Old 03-26-2010, 06:40 PM   #2
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The best cable out there is rated at 10.2 GB. As long as your cable is rated at that speed you should not have any problem.

side note. Your getting lag because your playing on PS's ****ty servers. Get an xbox.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:01 PM   #3
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monoprice.com don't pay more than $5 for an HDMI cable
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:05 PM   #4
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I agree with denverbound. Get an XBox 360. You get what you pay for.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:07 PM   #5
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Your lag is generated by either the servers, your connection or the game system hardware. It's not a cable issue.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:09 PM   #6
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I agree with denverbound. Get an XBox 360. You get what you pay for.

Red ring of death. Yup.

He said he had issues with lag with one game, not all of them. So clearly its not the quality of sony's servers.


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Old 03-26-2010, 07:15 PM   #7
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lets not bring system battles into this...dont really feel like debating the playstations superiority right now seriously though, its not a server issue. the lag occurs in campaign mode just the same. AND , my buddy's red ring of death ridden console has the same problems on my t.v.

i just wonder if that 10.2 gig cable will make a difference? are you using one currently?
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:23 PM   #8
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monoprice.com don't pay more than $5 for an HDMI cable
This
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:25 PM   #9
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This

Most expensive HDMI cable I've ever bought was 14.99. It was at Walmart and was at 2am. We use it now for the HD in the living room.


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Old 03-26-2010, 07:33 PM   #10
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I came here to laugh at anyone suggesting that Monster cable is the way to go. Leaving disappointed.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:50 PM   #11
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Your Samsung should have a "game mode" to help exactly with this.
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Old 03-26-2010, 07:54 PM   #12
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I came here to laugh at anyone suggesting that Monster cable is the way to go. Leaving disappointed.
Monster is the way to go!

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Old 03-26-2010, 07:56 PM   #13
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Red ring of death. Yup.

He said he had issues with lag with one game, not all of them. So clearly its not the quality of sony's servers.


Microsoft is making a TON of money off of people who bought the first gen 360 (like me) had it Red Ring (like me) and then bought the latest gen of 360 (like me).
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:01 PM   #14
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Microsoft is making a TON of money off of people who bought the first gen 360 (like me) had it Red Ring (like me) and then bought the latest gen of 360 (like me).

Not to mention the 360 Live fee you pay. I like the 360, and if I get one it would be for the Fable series. But I find it hard to shell out $300 for a system. have it burn out, send it back. Have that one burn out, get a new one, and on top of it all pay $15 for access to their servers, on top of what I pay for broadband service already.


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Old 03-26-2010, 08:10 PM   #15
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Most expensive HDMI cable I've ever bought was 14.99. It was at Walmart and was at 2am. We use it now for the HD in the living room.


Bought two for twenty bucks when I got my new TV.

Don't need anything more than that.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:06 PM   #16
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Old 03-27-2010, 02:49 AM   #17
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lets not bring system battles into this...dont really feel like debating the playstations superiority right now seriously though, its not a server issue. the lag occurs in campaign mode just the same. AND , my buddy's red ring of death ridden console has the same problems on my t.v.

i just wonder if that 10.2 gig cable will make a difference? are you using one currently?
It'll help, a little.

But ultimately you got an LCD TV and this is one of the big downsides of LCD vs. Plasma. It'll be worse on games like Modern Warfare that render at goofy nonstandard resolutions to maintain a high frame rate, and FPS games will be your biggest offender (that and really fast racing games like WipeOut).
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:09 AM   #18
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As a game developer, I have to echo the 'get an xbox' comments. It isn't that the xbox is a better machine. In fact, in many ways it is worse.

The reality though is that unless a game is a PS3 exclusive, an xbox version of the game will always be better than the PS3 version. Every studio develops their games and gets them running and working on xbox first. It is by far the friendlier system to make games for, due to memory and tools support.

The PS3 version of the game sits on the back burner until the end of the project, and you have to start making sacrifices like lower texture resolution or fewer enemy AI in order to get it to run sometimes. It can get nasty.

So, always get the xbox version if you can.
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:27 AM   #19
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As a game developer, I have to echo the 'get an xbox' comments. It isn't that the xbox is a better machine. In fact, in many ways it is worse.

The reality though is that unless a game is a PS3 exclusive, an xbox version of the game will always be better than the PS3 version. Every studio develops their games and gets them running and working on xbox first. It is by far the friendlier system to make games for, due to memory and tools support.

The PS3 version of the game sits on the back burner until the end of the project, and you have to start making sacrifices like lower texture resolution or fewer enemy AI in order to get it to run sometimes. It can get nasty.

So, always get the xbox version if you can.
1. He'd have the exact same problem with the 360, so what the hell is the relevance of that take?

This isn't a frame rate issue on the PS3. The CoD:MW/MW2 engine isn't exactly a world beater and both systems handle it just fine. Its a problem with him getting an LCD and trying to play fast twitch games on them. Its latency from his set, nothing more.

2. Yes, many devs over the last few years have done a mediocre job with multi-plat development, primarily the ones who rely on middleware to carry the load for them. But that is becoming a less and less accurate statement with every quarter. In fact, we're now starting to see some games that are better on the PS3 than the 360 at release, and many of the ones that do have a significant performance divide are patched soon after release.

Even still, the differences are often minimal. Hardly a reason to choose which system you buy. Things like overall system features, exclusives, network, etc. are far more important things than knowing your game has slightly better lighting versus slightly better textures or some other little thing that 90% of the gaming public couldn't notice without having it explicitly pointed out to them.
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Old 03-27-2010, 04:40 AM   #20
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It'll help, a little.

But ultimately you got an LCD TV and this is one of the big downsides of LCD vs. Plasma. It'll be worse on games like Modern Warfare that render at goofy nonstandard resolutions to maintain a high frame rate, and FPS games will be your biggest offender (that and really fast racing games like WipeOut).
This is what I was ultimately afraid of.

The odd thing is, my buddy's 42" LCD from insignia has, like, zero lag, but it cost about $500 less, and is only a 60hz haha. I just ASSUMED when I bought this t.v., and now I'm paying for it.

Thanks for the info though...have you heard anything about using the HDMI to VGA cable? Something about using the actual PC input to "fool" the t.v.?
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:15 AM   #21
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This is what I was ultimately afraid of.

The odd thing is, my buddy's 42" LCD from insignia has, like, zero lag, but it cost about $500 less, and is only a 60hz haha. I just ASSUMED when I bought this t.v., and now I'm paying for it.

Thanks for the info though...have you heard anything about using the HDMI to VGA cable? Something about using the actual PC input to "fool" the t.v.?
Nothing is going to "fool" your TV. Its simply a matter of refresh latency. The TV can't "redraw" the image fast enough.

Optimizing the transfer rate from the system will help some, but that likely isn't your bottleneck. The whole 60hz/120hz thing with LCDs isn't a very big deal either, its a marginal improvement but it doesn't change the fact that LCDs will always have some latency.

I'd be willing to bet that the reason you didn't notice it on your friend's Insignia is that the TV just doesn't look as nice and so it was less obvious to you.

Keep tweaking your video settings, you'll likely find something that makes it very tolerable. Game mode will obviously be an essential part of that, but double check everything to make sure that 1. game mode is enabled and 2. it isn't a half assed game mode that leaves some of the intensive features still running. Check to make sure you've got all the non-essential features turned off.

Are you running your sound through your TV to a sound system? If so you might want to consider a direct link from the PS3 as well. Some sets will just treat incoming sound as a pass through, but some will try to convert from one format to another, some do either one depending on how you set it up.

Most importantly, calibrate your set well with something like Avia or Digital Video Essentials. A well calibrated set will handle the stresses of fast refreshing source better (not to mention look better). Never trust a factory calibration, they're almost always complete junk with a contrast/brightness pairing that will be a big contributor in the early death of your TV.

Also, for how cheap a HDMI 1.3 cable is off monoprice, you should get one. It likely won't be a game changer, but you're going to be looking for every bit of help to make this as optimized as possible.

Last edited by Drek; 03-27-2010 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 03-27-2010, 07:05 AM   #22
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Wow, I didn't know this was going on. Not sure I really understand it. If I were to buy a new tv how would I avoid it? Or is that a stupid question?
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:01 AM   #23
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Wow, I didn't know this was going on. Not sure I really understand it. If I were to buy a new tv how would I avoid it? Or is that a stupid question?
Buy a plasma if you like Gaming and Sports

I just bought the new generation of Plasma's from Samsung and I am shocked people would buy anything else for Sports or gaming. I got a 58" plasma for 1400 that is simply incredible and I can watch game film on. My old 50 is still really nice, but the 58" is simply incredible.

Seriously, plasma is so much cheaper, has become more energy efficient, the glare issues are almost gone, and I can watch it in bright light (NOT direct light) with little wash. I have no idea why people would want to pay the premium for LED/LCD big screens
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:02 AM   #24
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It's amazing how many people don't understand the concept of variables.

His tv, cables and PS3 system work perfectly for 99% of the games he owns. He has problems with one game.

What is the ONE variable that has changed?
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:07 AM   #25
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It's amazing how many people don't understand the concept of variables.

His tv, cables and PS3 system work perfectly for 99% of the games he owns. He has problems with one game.

What is the ONE variable that has changed?
If it were only that simple. The game was explained earlier by drek. It requires a higher "refresh Latency" than his TV can display versus other games. That problem will only get worse with new games that are created to do more and more.....

If his TV struggles with a game that will be obsolete very soon, how is it going to do down the road with the next games?
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