Enviros play dirty on coal, natural gas

[snowspot66]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

The core problem is the resistance to do anything which will gradually reduce our dependance on fossil fuels as long as the energy firms can still profit from their use.

That's the dumbest thing about it all. They could sink billions into alternatives and make big bucks on that as the oil falls.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by snowspot66

That's the dumbest thing about it all. They could sink billions into alternatives and make big bucks on that as the oil falls.

Instead they will ride the easy money train until it derails, actively opposing alternative energy initiatives. Then, when the dead dino supply no longer meets our needs, we'll be left picking up the pieces.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by snowspot66

I'm sorry but coal isn't clean and we need alternatives. There's only so much coal to burn.

Not correct. Enough coal alone in MT, ND and WY to power this country for centuries. Natural gas is almost as bad as nuclear energy when considering alternatives. Price fluctuations guarantee rates will rise and be substantially higher than coal power (at least twice as much in some areas). Nuclear energy creates waste that NEVER goes away and they take at least a decade to complete one plant, let alone the huge costs to taxpayers to construct one.
Coal burns cleaner than ever, and cheaper than ever. The newest anti-pollution controls on coal plants eliminate the majority of all particulates. Anything you see coming out of the stacks on new plants and updated plants is heated air (water). CO2 is still there but all energy costs something to produce.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Not correct. Enough coal alone in MT, ND and WY to power this country for centuries. Natural gas is almost as bad as nuclear energy when considering alternatives. Price fluctuations guarantee rates will rise and be substantially higher than coal power (at least twice as much in some areas). Nuclear energy creates waste that NEVER goes away and they take at least a decade to complete one plant, let alone the huge costs to taxpayers to construct one.
Coal burns cleaner than ever, and cheaper than ever. The newest anti-pollution controls on coal plants eliminate the majority of all particulates. Anything you see coming out of the stacks on new plants and updated plants is heated air (water). CO2 is still there but all energy costs something to produce.

Ever seen the massive environmental destruction caused by mining coal in a "cheap" way? Here's the result:

This used to be a mountain:



This used to be a forest:



Coal may be "clean burning." but it's still devastating to the environment. Strip mines leave exposed bedrock that will take thousands of years to once again be capable of supporting the ecosystems the land previously was. Even when these places are "restored" (read: they dump all the blasted rock back on the ground) they are left incapable of maintaining a natural ecosystem.

My great uncle owns some land in Northern Colorado that was once strip mined and then "restored". 80 years later, it's still piles of (unstable) dirt and nothing more.

So yes, we have the coal necessary to run our country for centuries, but extracting it all will leave large parts of the country a barren wasteland.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

Ever seen the massive environmental destruction caused by mining coal in a "cheap" way? Here's the result:
.

Of course I have, I been in in Industrial Construction for over 30 years. As I stated, there is a price to pay for all forms of energy. The places where we are mining it, for the most part, are not places people really care about it since they are reaping the benefits from it.