The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2010, 11:50 AM   #1
cmhargrove
Is this thing on???
 
cmhargrove's Avatar
 
Travis Henry's love child...

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 6,712

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Hillis
Default Your Thoughts On Larry Coyer

I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik.

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).

So, did Larry:
a. finally figure things out
b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or
c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm.

I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver.

And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.
cmhargrove is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-04-2010, 11:54 AM   #2
montrose
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 6,077

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VP John Elway
Default

I think it's a combination of things. Med has posted several times, which I agree with, that the early part of the season relies more on scheme but as the season wears on talent takes over. Coyer got the most out of the shi**y personnel Shanahan supplied him with early in the season but as the year wore on and the paradigm shifted to talent, the John Engleberger's, Michael Myers' and Roc Alexander's of the world just couldn't get the job done. Coyer now has a talented defense to go with his solid schemes, it's a win-win.
montrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:02 PM   #3
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,437

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:05 PM   #4
TailgateNut
Bleedin' orange!
 
TailgateNut's Avatar
 
.......as much as tebonites

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mile High
Posts: 19,868

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Howard Griffith
Default

Loved the guy, but he never got the time to weed out the squad and develop the D.
TailgateNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:07 PM   #5
broncswin
God I love those Broncos
 
broncswin's Avatar
 
Bring back the hardware

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Broncos Fantasy Land
Posts: 2,188

Adopt-a-Bronco:
three amigos
Default

Could you imagine if McDaniels would have let this guy go and here he is in the superbowl, this place would have went ape shiat!!
broncswin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:11 PM   #6
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,135

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

When is his projected to be drafted? I say pick him up in the fourth round.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:13 PM   #7
montrose
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 6,077

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VP John Elway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.
I think more talent in general. Of his 2006 defense: Lang, Ekuban, Myers and Warren were marginal at best. Gold was awful, Wilson at the end of his career and DJ out of position. Two old safeties who couldn't run anymore in Ferguson and Lynch and an undersized CB better suited to play the nickel in DWill. The fact he got that much out of that little talent is astounding.
montrose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:19 PM   #8
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,368
Default

From a scheme standpoint Coyer was real good. There was a real problem with teaching up talent when he was here though (lot of draft pick busts on the line and secondary). Part of that can go to positional coaches and Shanahan's talent selection, but part of it lands on the guy running the unit too.

I used to think he was the reason why we brought back Ian Gold. I'm not so sure now, but whichever one of Shanahan or Coyer who thought giving Gold that big deal only to bump DJ out of his every down role deserves a ton of negative cred. Such a bad move. If we'd kept a Jashon Sykes type around (or drafted another young guy to develop at the position where Coyer had previously done well developing talent) we could have spent some real money on a legitimate DE or DT instead of always trying to work with short term patch jobs.

I wish him the best of luck now though. I think Indy is a great fit for him. He can focus exclusively on his scheme knowing their GM will provide him with talent and capable assistants. All he has to do is put talent in position to make plays.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:27 PM   #9
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).
And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.
Coyer is no dummy. Can't beat 'em, join 'em.

There's just no comparison to the Colts situation and the Broncos of 05, let's say. We were a grind it out team back then, built on keeping games close... running the ball and trying to capitalize on Shanahan's play-calling.

The Colts defense lines up across from one of the most dynamic offenses in NFL history, and certainly one of the best QBs to ever play the game.

They're a fine D, but how effective would their D be this year if... say... they had our struggling offense on the other side?

Coyer is by all accounts a good guy and a talented coach. But, when coaches fail to get things done, they are asked to move on. Even GREAT coaches are sometimes replaced. (See Mike Shanahan.)

Coyer's squads had regular melt-downs in big games in Denver. Was that his fault? Who knows. I didn't care for some of what I saw on defense... but I also know that we didn't have a Dwight Freeney up front, either.

So, sometimes a situation works for you... sometimes it doesn't. Mike Shanahan thought he could replace Coyer and made the decision. In reality, we'll never know how much was scheme and how much was talent.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:32 PM   #10
RunSilentRunDeep
Ring of Famer
 
RunSilentRunDeep's Avatar
 
I root for laundry

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,420

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius Thomas
Default

Coyer did a remarkable job. Outside of producing solid results with a weak cast, people forget how often those crap offenses went 3-and-out and put the defense is a horrible position (sound familiar?).
RunSilentRunDeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 12:56 PM   #11
bronco militia
OMG...this is horrible!
 
bronco militia's Avatar
 
THE GREATEST

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: colorado springs, co
Posts: 24,453
Default

coaching the Defense for a team with a HOF QB is a pretty sweet gig.

signed,

Greg Robinson
bronco militia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:02 PM   #12
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 19,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.
and a D-line worth a shyt
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:24 PM   #13
WolfpackGuy
Call me, "Maybe"
 
WolfpackGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Delaware
Posts: 6,733
Default

The defensive line was weak during Coyer's tenure. He did a lot with a little in that area.

His defenses were always pretty good in the rankings, but they never really got any turnovers for some reason outside of 2005.
WolfpackGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:29 PM   #14
strafen
Karma
 
strafen's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,259

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Elway
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik.

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).

So, did Larry:
a. finally figure things out
b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or
c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm.

I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver.

And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.
We've enjoyed one of the best defenses with Larry Coyer. We've made it to the AFC Conference Championship with a record of 13-3 IIRC.
To me, he was made a scapegoat by Shanahan. That's the best way I can characterize his experience in Denver...
strafen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:33 PM   #15
Gob
Solid Starter
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 151

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik.

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).

So, did Larry:
a. finally figure things out
b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or
c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm.

I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver.

And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.
I would say a little bit of b and c, and he is/was always pretty good. That team has personnel that fits it perfectly. You put thier defensive personnel on our team and we get killed I think, but with the style of play they force other teams to play (thanks to manning and co), it is a perfect fit. I think he has improved it even more because he is so much more aggressive then the Dungy led D was, which fits in with the offense better too.
Gob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #16
WolfpackGuy
Call me, "Maybe"
 
WolfpackGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Delaware
Posts: 6,733
Default

The lay back and let Peyton Manning pick you apart defense in 2006 was pretty much his death knell.

I don't think they got a single stop that day.
WolfpackGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:36 PM   #17
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,723
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
We've enjoyed one of the best defenses with Larry Coyer. We've made it to the AFC Conference Championship with a record of 13-3 IIRC.
To me, he was made a scapegoat by Shanahan. That's the best way I can characterize his experience in Denver...
He was made a scapegoat by the board too. I still remember the jerk fest when he was fired and Bates was hired.
elsid13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 01:43 PM   #18
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep View Post
Coyer did a remarkable job. Outside of producing solid results with a weak cast, people forget how often those crap offenses went 3-and-out and put the defense is a horrible position (sound familiar?).
You do remember that Denver had a top 10 or top 5 offense 3 out of the 4 years he was DC right?
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #19
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,437

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

The playoffs have sure been a different gig for Coyer not having Plummer tied around his neck.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #20
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,437

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM   #21
Ray Finkle
DOOONNNTTTTT CAAARRREEE!
 
Ray Finkle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 7,525
Default

Stupid McDaniel's....he should have never fired him....oh wait...
Ray Finkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 02:34 PM   #22
Br0nc0Buster
2013 AFC Champs
 
Br0nc0Buster's Avatar
 
Shabby, not too

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,534
Default

I liked Coyer
He did a good job turning chicken **** into salad for the most part

The only criticism I had of him was his in game adjustments, he didnt really seem to keen on those
Br0nc0Buster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 03:18 PM   #23
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Finkle View Post
Stupid McDaniel's....he should have never fired him....oh wait...

Well, the reality is that Shanahan wasn't committed to really putting the pieces in place for the D to be dominant.

That said, Coyer's 2005 defense had some talent. But, when your D routinely falls apart to the tune of playoff records on multiple occasions... you're job is going to come into question. That's just business.

But, he's found a team with an offense so powerful that they can buck historical trends with regards to defensive efficiency. The Colts of 06 and 09 are winning with an average defense due to a one in a million QB situation.

We'll see if the Colts can continue to buck that trend this weekend when they face a similarly dynamic offense, and a defense with more play-making ability.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 04:17 PM   #24
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nćstved, DK
Posts: 10,923

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by montrose View Post
I think it's a combination of things. Med has posted several times, which I agree with, that the early part of the season relies more on scheme but as the season wears on talent takes over. Coyer got the most out of the shi**y personnel Shanahan supplied him with early in the season but as the year wore on and the paradigm shifted to talent, the John Engleberger's, Michael Myers' and Roc Alexander's of the world just couldn't get the job done. Coyer now has a talented defense to go with his solid schemes, it's a win-win.
That is my feeling exactly, Coyer with good players is a great defense waiting to happen. Coyer with Ian Gold, Roc Alexander and the bevy of other forgettable names is not going to be a match for Peyton Manning.

I liked Coyer, he ran a good system and he was screwed over by continuous ****ty defensive drafting and free agents.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 04:22 PM   #25
listopencil
[sarcasm]text[/sarcasm]
 
listopencil's Avatar
 
BOOM! Winner.

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The People's Republic Of California
Posts: 8,537

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Broncos FO
Default

He's a good guy, he's a good coach and he was just another scapegoat in a long line of them with this franchise. I'm thankful for his accomplishments in a tough situation. I wish him the best. I'd like to see the Saints win the Super Bowl, but if the Colts do instead I'll be happy for Coyer.
listopencil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:47 PM.


Denver Broncos