Your Thoughts On Larry Coyer - The Orange Mane

cmhargrove · 02-04-2010, 11:50 AM

I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik.

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).

So, did Larry:
a. finally figure things out
b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or
c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm.

I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver.

And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.

montrose · 02-04-2010, 11:54 AM

I think it's a combination of things. Med has posted several times, which I agree with, that the early part of the season relies more on scheme but as the season wears on talent takes over. Coyer got the most out of the shi**y personnel Shanahan supplied him with early in the season but as the year wore on and the paradigm shifted to talent, the John Engleberger's, Michael Myers' and Roc Alexander's of the world just couldn't get the job done. Coyer now has a talented defense to go with his solid schemes, it's a win-win.

Taco John · 02-04-2010, 12:02 PM

I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.

TailgateNut · 02-04-2010, 12:05 PM

Loved the guy, but he never got the time to weed out the squad and develop the D.

broncswin · 02-04-2010, 12:07 PM

Could you imagine if McDaniels would have let this guy go and here he is in the superbowl, this place would have went ape shiat!!

Requiem · 02-04-2010, 12:11 PM

When is his projected to be drafted? I say pick him up in the fourth round.

montrose · 02-04-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.

I think more talent in general. Of his 2006 defense: Lang, Ekuban, Myers and Warren were marginal at best. Gold was awful, Wilson at the end of his career and DJ out of position. Two old safeties who couldn't run anymore in Ferguson and Lynch and an undersized CB better suited to play the nickel in DWill. The fact he got that much out of that little talent is astounding.

Drek · 02-04-2010, 12:19 PM

From a scheme standpoint Coyer was real good. There was a real problem with teaching up talent when he was here though (lot of draft pick busts on the line and secondary). Part of that can go to positional coaches and Shanahan's talent selection, but part of it lands on the guy running the unit too.

I used to think he was the reason why we brought back Ian Gold. I'm not so sure now, but whichever one of Shanahan or Coyer who thought giving Gold that big deal only to bump DJ out of his every down role deserves a ton of negative cred. Such a bad move. If we'd kept a Jashon Sykes type around (or drafted another young guy to develop at the position where Coyer had previously done well developing talent) we could have spent some real money on a legitimate DE or DT instead of always trying to work with short term patch jobs.

I wish him the best of luck now though. I think Indy is a great fit for him. He can focus exclusively on his scheme knowing their GM will provide him with talent and capable assistants. All he has to do is put talent in position to make plays.

Popps · 02-04-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).
And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.

Coyer is no dummy. Can't beat 'em, join 'em.

There's just no comparison to the Colts situation and the Broncos of 05, let's say. We were a grind it out team back then, built on keeping games close... running the ball and trying to capitalize on Shanahan's play-calling.

The Colts defense lines up across from one of the most dynamic offenses in NFL history, and certainly one of the best QBs to ever play the game.

They're a fine D, but how effective would their D be this year if... say... they had our struggling offense on the other side?

Coyer is by all accounts a good guy and a talented coach. But, when coaches fail to get things done, they are asked to move on. Even GREAT coaches are sometimes replaced. (See Mike Shanahan.)

Coyer's squads had regular melt-downs in big games in Denver. Was that his fault? Who knows. I didn't care for some of what I saw on defense... but I also know that we didn't have a Dwight Freeney up front, either.

So, sometimes a situation works for you... sometimes it doesn't. Mike Shanahan thought he could replace Coyer and made the decision. In reality, we'll never know how much was scheme and how much was talent.

RunSilentRunDeep · 02-04-2010, 12:32 PM

Coyer did a remarkable job. Outside of producing solid results with a weak cast, people forget how often those crap offenses went 3-and-out and put the defense is a horrible position (sound familiar?).

bronco militia · 02-04-2010, 12:56 PM

coaching the Defense for a team with a HOF QB is a pretty sweet gig.

signed,

Greg Robinson

oubronco · 02-04-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.

and a D-line worth a shyt

WolfpackGuy · 02-04-2010, 01:24 PM

The defensive line was weak during Coyer's tenure. He did a lot with a little in that area.

His defenses were always pretty good in the rankings, but they never really got any turnovers for some reason outside of 2005.

strafen · 02-04-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik.

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).

So, did Larry:
a. finally figure things out
b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or
c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm.

I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver.

And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.

We've enjoyed one of the best defenses with Larry Coyer. We've made it to the AFC Conference Championship with a record of 13-3 IIRC.
To me, he was made a scapegoat by Shanahan. That's the best way I can characterize his experience in Denver...

Gob · 02-04-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik.

Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win).

So, did Larry:
a. finally figure things out
b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or
c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm.

I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver.

And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.

I would say a little bit of b and c, and he is/was always pretty good. That team has personnel that fits it perfectly. You put thier defensive personnel on our team and we get killed I think, but with the style of play they force other teams to play (thanks to manning and co), it is a perfect fit. I think he has improved it even more because he is so much more aggressive then the Dungy led D was, which fits in with the offense better too.

WolfpackGuy · 02-04-2010, 01:34 PM

The lay back and let Peyton Manning pick you apart defense in 2006 was pretty much his death knell.

I don't think they got a single stop that day.

elsid13 · 02-04-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragster69

We've enjoyed one of the best defenses with Larry Coyer. We've made it to the AFC Conference Championship with a record of 13-3 IIRC.
To me, he was made a scapegoat by Shanahan. That's the best way I can characterize his experience in Denver...

He was made a scapegoat by the board too. I still remember the jerk fest when he was fired and Bates was hired.

2KBack · 02-04-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunSilentRunDeep

Coyer did a remarkable job. Outside of producing solid results with a weak cast, people forget how often those crap offenses went 3-and-out and put the defense is a horrible position (sound familiar?).

You do remember that Denver had a top 10 or top 5 offense 3 out of the 4 years he was DC right?

Taco John · 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM

The playoffs have sure been a different gig for Coyer not having Plummer tied around his neck.

Taco John · 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM

Ray Finkle · 02-04-2010, 02:02 PM

Stupid McDaniel's....he should have never fired him....oh wait...

Br0nc0Buster · 02-04-2010, 02:34 PM

I liked Coyer
He did a good job turning chicken **** into salad for the most part

The only criticism I had of him was his in game adjustments, he didnt really seem to keen on those

Popps · 02-04-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Finkle

Stupid McDaniel's....he should have never fired him....oh wait...

Well, the reality is that Shanahan wasn't committed to really putting the pieces in place for the D to be dominant.

That said, Coyer's 2005 defense had some talent. But, when your D routinely falls apart to the tune of playoff records on multiple occasions... you're job is going to come into question. That's just business.

But, he's found a team with an offense so powerful that they can buck historical trends with regards to defensive efficiency. The Colts of 06 and 09 are winning with an average defense due to a one in a million QB situation.

We'll see if the Colts can continue to buck that trend this weekend when they face a similarly dynamic offense, and a defense with more play-making ability.

gyldenlove · 02-04-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montrose

I think it's a combination of things. Med has posted several times, which I agree with, that the early part of the season relies more on scheme but as the season wears on talent takes over. Coyer got the most out of the shi**y personnel Shanahan supplied him with early in the season but as the year wore on and the paradigm shifted to talent, the John Engleberger's, Michael Myers' and Roc Alexander's of the world just couldn't get the job done. Coyer now has a talented defense to go with his solid schemes, it's a win-win.

That is my feeling exactly, Coyer with good players is a great defense waiting to happen. Coyer with Ian Gold, Roc Alexander and the bevy of other forgettable names is not going to be a match for Peyton Manning.

I liked Coyer, he ran a good system and he was screwed over by continuous ****ty defensive drafting and free agents.

listopencil · 02-04-2010, 04:22 PM

He's a good guy, he's a good coach and he was just another scapegoat in a long line of them with this franchise. I'm thankful for his accomplishments in a tough situation. I wish him the best. I'd like to see the Saints win the Super Bowl, but if the Colts do instead I'll be happy for Coyer.

02-04-2010, 11:50 AM	#1
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,423 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	Your Thoughts On Larry Coyer I always felt conflicted about Larry Coyer as our d-coordinator. He put together the best first halfs, and worst seconds halfs of any d-coordinator not named Slowik. Anyway, Coyer could never find a way to beat the Colts, even when our defense seemed "good." So, now Coyer bounced to the Colts and is going to the superbowl (which I think he will win). So, did Larry: a. finally figure things out b. Just inherit a bunch of good players on a good squad (that's the main difference), or c. Your defense really doesn't matter with Manning at the helm. I'm not here to poo-poo team decisions, because I hope Martindale is the next big thing, but it is interesting to see Coyer going for his superbowl after the Colts were the reason he was fired from Denver. And, as a side note, the Colts are ranked lower in total defense, but allowed fewer points per game than the Broncos in 2009.

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02-04-2010, 11:54 AM	#2
montrose Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,096 Adopt-a-Bronco: VP John Elway	I think it's a combination of things. Med has posted several times, which I agree with, that the early part of the season relies more on scheme but as the season wears on talent takes over. Coyer got the most out of the shi**y personnel Shanahan supplied him with early in the season but as the year wore on and the paradigm shifted to talent, the John Engleberger's, Michael Myers' and Roc Alexander's of the world just couldn't get the job done. Coyer now has a talented defense to go with his solid schemes, it's a win-win.

02-04-2010, 12:02 PM	#3
Taco John 24/7 Broncos In Elway I Trust Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 49,742 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	I think Coyer was a great defensive coordinator who would have benefitted greatly from having more depth to work with.

02-04-2010, 12:05 PM	#4
TailgateNut Bleedin' orange! .......as much as tebonites Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mile High Posts: 20,018 Adopt-a-Bronco: Howard Griffith	Loved the guy, but he never got the time to weed out the squad and develop the D.

02-04-2010, 12:07 PM	#5
broncswin God I love those Broncos Bring back the hardware Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Broncos Fantasy Land Posts: 2,017 Adopt-a-Bronco: three amigos	Could you imagine if McDaniels would have let this guy go and here he is in the superbowl, this place would have went ape shiat!!

02-04-2010, 12:11 PM	#6
Requiem ~~~ ~ ~ ~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Earth Division Posts: 19,842 Adopt-a-Bronco: Gilgamesh	When is his projected to be drafted? I say pick him up in the fourth round.

02-04-2010, 12:19 PM	#8
Drek Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 12,359	From a scheme standpoint Coyer was real good. There was a real problem with teaching up talent when he was here though (lot of draft pick busts on the line and secondary). Part of that can go to positional coaches and Shanahan's talent selection, but part of it lands on the guy running the unit too. I used to think he was the reason why we brought back Ian Gold. I'm not so sure now, but whichever one of Shanahan or Coyer who thought giving Gold that big deal only to bump DJ out of his every down role deserves a ton of negative cred. Such a bad move. If we'd kept a Jashon Sykes type around (or drafted another young guy to develop at the position where Coyer had previously done well developing talent) we could have spent some real money on a legitimate DE or DT instead of always trying to work with short term patch jobs. I wish him the best of luck now though. I think Indy is a great fit for him. He can focus exclusively on his scheme knowing their GM will provide him with talent and capable assistants. All he has to do is put talent in position to make plays.

02-04-2010, 12:32 PM	#10
RunSilentRunDeep Ring of Famer I root for laundry Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,403 Adopt-a-Bronco: Julius Thomas	Coyer did a remarkable job. Outside of producing solid results with a weak cast, people forget how often those crap offenses went 3-and-out and put the defense is a horrible position (sound familiar?).

02-04-2010, 12:56 PM	#11
bronco militia Ring of Famer THE GREATEST Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: colorado springs, co Posts: 22,711	coaching the Defense for a team with a HOF QB is a pretty sweet gig. signed, Greg Robinson

02-04-2010, 01:24 PM	#13
WolfpackGuy Call me, "Maybe" Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,694	The defensive line was weak during Coyer's tenure. He did a lot with a little in that area. His defenses were always pretty good in the rankings, but they never really got any turnovers for some reason outside of 2005.

02-04-2010, 01:34 PM	#16
WolfpackGuy Call me, "Maybe" Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,694	The lay back and let Peyton Manning pick you apart defense in 2006 was pretty much his death knell. I don't think they got a single stop that day.

02-04-2010, 02:02 PM	#19
Taco John 24/7 Broncos In Elway I Trust Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 49,742 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	The playoffs have sure been a different gig for Coyer not having Plummer tied around his neck.

02-04-2010, 02:02 PM	#21
Ray Finkle DOOONNNTTTTT CAAARRREEE! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 7,464	Stupid McDaniel's....he should have never fired him....oh wait...

02-04-2010, 02:34 PM	#22
Br0nc0Buster 2012 AFC West Champs Superbowl or Bust Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 4,465	I liked Coyer He did a good job turning chicken **** into salad for the most part The only criticism I had of him was his in game adjustments, he didnt really seem to keen on those

02-04-2010, 04:22 PM	#25
listopencil [sarcasm]text[/sarcasm] BOOM! Winner. Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The People's Republic Of California Posts: 8,580 Adopt-a-Bronco: Broncos FO	He's a good guy, he's a good coach and he was just another scapegoat in a long line of them with this franchise. I'm thankful for his accomplishments in a tough situation. I wish him the best. I'd like to see the Saints win the Super Bowl, but if the Colts do instead I'll be happy for Coyer.