Senate Republicans Threaten Loophole If Dems Try Reconciliation On Obamacare

[TexanBob]

Republicans find loophole in budget ploy to push healthcare

As it turns out, Senate Democrats may not be able to force healthcare legislation through the chamber on a simple majority vote.

Republicans say they have found a loophole in the budget reconciliation process that could allow them to offer an indefinite number of amendments.

Though it has never been done, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) says he’s prepared to test the Senate’s stamina to block the Democrats from using the process to expedite changes to the health care bill.

Experts on Senate procedural rules, from both parties, note that such a filibuster is possible. While reconciliation rules limit debate to 20 hours, senators lack similar constraints on amendments and could conceivably continue offering them until 60 members agree to cut the process off.

Another option for Democrats would be to seek a ruling by the parliamentarian that Republicans are simply filing amendments to stall the process. But such a ruling could taint the final health care vote and backfire for Democrats in November.

.....

Reid stayed away from the special process of passing health care reform with only 51 votes because he knew it would be messy.

But since Republicans won a Senate seat in Massachusetts, thereby stripping Democrats of a filibuster-proof majority, it appears Democrats will need to invoke those rules to make crucial changes to health care legislation.

......

No one really knows, because a lawmaker has never tried to use amendments to filibuster a reconciliation package.

“We haven’t ever tried it before,” said a congressional aide.

Parliamentarian Alan Frumin could rule Republican amendments after a certain number out of order. But he could also allow the GOP amendments, since they are not expressly barred.

If Frumin ruled with Republicans, Reid would be in a difficult position. He could either pull the bill off the floor or he could appeal the ruling of the parliamentarian.

====================

To translate for our learning-impaired members, if the Dems decide to try reconciliation on ObamCare legislation, the Republicans may stage a de-facto filibuster by offering amendment after amendment until time ran out, potentially stalling all other Senate bills.

It's never been tried before and there may be challenges to prevent it from happening but it represents a roadblock the Dems may need to work around.

It could also be an empty threat to scare the Democrats from even trying to pass ObamaCare through reconciliation. It's uncharted territory so nobody knows how it would play out or what unintended precedents might be created.

[TexanBob]

RastaStalin meltdown in 3...2...1...

[ghwk]

Ah yes, nothing like a healthy functioning congress to make your day.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by ghwk

Ah yes, nothing like a healthy functioning congress to make your day.

The bill is dogshyt and needs to be scrapped and goverment removed from it, HECK obama just figured out one fun fact yesterday it just makes me wonder what else is hidden in there or was just slipped in.

[ghwk]

I won't argue with you about the quality of the bill as it stands but do you understand that what they are going for here is the lowest possible denominator, the worst outcome as opposed to both parties actually stepping up?

Government doesn't necessarily need to be removed from it depending on what the hell you meant by that. The current system is so ****ed up that it sure as hell isn't going to fix itself, therefore goevernment has to play a role somewhere for some period of time. Does that mean it has to be a government run program? No. Doesn it mean that competition and ineffiecincy needs to be driven out of this system? Yes. Some level of government intervention is the only way to start this.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

The bill is dogshyt and needs to be scrapped and goverment removed from it, HECK obama just figured out one fun fact yesterday it just makes me wonder what else is hidden in there or was just slipped in.

Meh! What needs to done is to take out the cancerous middle man that stands btwn the patient and their doctors....and thats the for profit private corporate Health Insurers.

Healthcare itself is provided by doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, hospices, and device makers. Insurance companies do none of this. They don't do research, they don't perform surgeries, they don't change bedpans, and they don't make diagnoses. They're just middlemen. All they do is pay the bills after marking them up 30%. They don't do anything at all to make healthcare better or more efficient.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

RastaStalin meltdown in 3...2...1...

Talk is Cheap! Screw the Republican Terrorist Congress are a bunch of cowards and facsist! I'd call their bluff on their bogus loop hole to stop the Dems from using Reconciliation.

Had the Dems tried to use some BS Reconciliation Loophole against the GW Bush Crime Family....Mafioso Cheney would have told the Dems to go F*@k themselves! Well its time for the Dems to give the Knuckle Dragging Facist Conservative Republican't Congress to go F*@k themselves as well.

[barryr]

The healthcare plan is idiotic and will screw up what most people have, which most people are happy with what they have. But the democrats haven't been interested in listening and it has cost them in recent electiond and more if they keep it up.

[Bronx33]

Just wait till obama sells us out by giving 12 + million illegals/potential democrat voters citizenship.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by barryr

The healthcare plan is idiotic and will screw up what most people have, which most people are happy with what they have. But the democrats haven't been interested in listening and it has cost them in recent electiond and more if they keep it up.

Well tweak the bill in the house. But whatever you do, do not allow the Knuckle Dragging Obstructionist Republican Congress allow HCR to be started all over again!

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by rastaman

Talk is Cheap! Screw the Republican Terrorist Congress are a bunch of cowards and facsist! I'd call their bluff on their bogus loop hole to stop the Dems from using Reconciliation.

Had the Dems tried to use some BS Reconciliation Loophole against the GW Bush Crime Family....Mafioso Cheney would have told the Dems to go F*@k themselves! Well its time for the Dems to give the Knuckle Dragging Facist Conservative Republican't Congress to go F*@k themselves as well.

haha yeah that's it. The Republicans are all terrorists!

Boy you're one messed up person.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

haha yeah that's it. The Republicans are all terrorists!

Boy you're one messed up person.

The people concur..

[Rohirrim]

The republicans have really reached disgusting new lows of hypocrisy:

Today, Politico reported that Republican senators are prepared to go “nuclear” — essentially shutting down the Senate through the use of parliamentary maneuvers — if President Obama attempts to use budget reconciliation to pass key parts of his legislative agenda, such as health care reform and cap-and-trade. Reconciliation allows some legislation to be protected from filibusters and passed by a simple majority. On NPR this morning, Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO) repeated a now familiar attack on budget reconciliation:

BOND: “In this post-partisan time of Barack Obama, we’re seeing a little Chicago politics. They steamroller those who disagree with them, then, I guess in Chicago, they coat them in cement and drop them in the river.” [NPR, 3/24/09]

Bond appears to be parroting his colleague Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH), who said any use of budget reconciliation by President Obama would be “regarded as an act of violence” against Republicans, and likened it to “running over the minority, putting them in cement and throwing them in the Chicago River.” Other GOP senators have chimed in against reconciliation, with Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) calling it a “purely partisan exercise” and Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) saying it “would be a mess.”

Despite their howls against Obama, Republicans employed the same procedure to pass major Bush agenda items (which were supported by all four aforementioned Senators):

– The 2001 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 1836, 3/26/01]
– The 2003 Bush Tax Cuts [HR 2, 3/23/03]
– Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 [HR 4297, 5/11/06]
– The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 [H. Con Res. 95, 12/21/05]

As ThinkProgress has noted, Gregg defended using the reconciliation procedure to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for domestic drilling in 2005, arguing, “The president asked for it, and we’re trying to do what the president asked for.” Evidently, Gregg has lost the same sense of patriotic duty.

While Republicans seem to be experiencing a particular form of political amnesia from the Bush years, they ought to be reminded that budget reconciliation has been used by several other presidents, including Clinton and Reagan. In fact, Republicans — with Bond and Gregg among the leaders of the charge — were instrumental in pushing through key provisions of their signature legislative agenda, the Contract with America, using budget reconciliation.

A list of instances where reconciliation was implemented:

Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981
Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983
Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993
Balanced Budget Act of 1995 (vetoed)
Personal Responsibility and Budget Reconciliation Act of 1996
Balanced Budget Act of 1997
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997
Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999 (vetoed)
Marriage Tax Relief Act of 2000 (vetoed)
Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001
Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003
The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005
Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/24/...econciliation/

[cutthemdown]

None of that stuff as big as healthcare IMO. Healthcare too important, far reaching, long lasting to use reconciliation. They can try it, but I think public will backlash that.

Most of the stuff seems to be tax cuts, budget changes, tax relief etc etc. You don't see big issues settled there.

Also doesn't things passed this way expire after 5 yrs? How would it work if its healthcare reform, then doesn't pass in 5 yrs. That means we just get taxed and never any reform? wierd.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by ghwk

Ah yes, nothing like a healthy functioning congress to make your day.

Theres nothing healthier for this country than a congress in gridlock.

[BroncoLifer]

Originally Posted by spdirty

Theres nothing healthier for this country than a congress in gridlock.

You have just won this thread, sir.

[TexanBob]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

None of that stuff as big as healthcare IMO. Healthcare too important, far reaching, long lasting to use reconciliation. They can try it, but I think public will backlash that.

Most of the stuff seems to be tax cuts, budget changes, tax relief etc etc. You don't see big issues settled there.

Also doesn't things passed this way expire after 5 yrs? How would it work if its healthcare reform, then doesn't pass in 5 yrs. That means we just get taxed and never any reform? wierd.

The roots of reconciliation is that budgets eventually have to pass or the government shuts down and goes into chaos. Therefore, a simple majority ought to suffice in order for the wheels of government to continue churning. Most of the items cited were passing the annual budget, rather than holding it hostage to the minority party.

One could argue that tax bills should not have been used that way although raising or lowering taxes does affect the budget in the strongest of ways.

By suggesting that reconciliation be used to pass Obamacare (which they still won't reveal to the public), Democrats are arguing that overhauling health care is essentially a budgetary matter which is a real stretch of logic. Yes, it will affect the budget in a big way by making the federal government responsible for paying for a lot more health care than they do now but if you want to parse it that way, EVERYTHING the federal government does affects the budget so it ought to apply to every bill, thus making filibusters obsolete.

Back when Republicans ran Congress, the left was forever bleating about the "rights of the minority", meaning it was wrong to steamroll things where the out-of-party power had no say. I told people back then that when the Democrats got control back they wouldn't give a damn about Republican wishes and that has certainly been true. Reconciliation on ObamaCare, if attempted, will be one more confirmation of that.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

Back when Republicans ran Congress, the left was forever bleating about the "rights of the minority", meaning it was wrong to steamroll Legislation that benefited the WEALTHY AND CORPORATIONS where the out-of-party power had no say. I told people back then that when the Democrats got control back they wouldn't give a damn about Republican wishes and pass legislation that would the poor and middle class, and that has certainly been true. Reconciliation on ObamaCare, if attempted, will be the only way to counter the Party of NO and Republican Obstructionism.

Oh well....the Supreme Court Selected Bush Crime Family and the Rubber Stamp GOP Congress (2001-2006) showed the entire country that "Coup-Elections Have Consequences"!

[Rohirrim]

The Republican Senators were sent to Washington to write legislation. They refuse to do their jobs. **** them. The country must move forward. The signal the Right is sending is, "Do it our way or we won't let you do it at all." That kind of thinking works great in a dictatorship, which more and more is what I believe the Right truly wants, but we are still, for the time being anyway, a republic. Our government is designed to hammer out compromises on these issues. If one side refuses to do its job, should the other side just sit down and do nothing?

Any economist will tell you the biggest drag on the budget is the cost of health care. Let Congress do their job and deal with the problem. If the Senators on the Right refuse to do the job the taxpayers are paying them to do, they should at least have the decency to move aside and let somebody else do it.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by rastaman

Meh! What needs to done is to take out the cancerous middle man that stands btwn the patient and their doctors....and thats the for profit private corporate Health Insurers.

Healthcare itself is provided by doctors, nurses, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, hospices, and device makers. Insurance companies do none of this. They don't do research, they don't perform surgeries, they don't change bedpans, and they don't make diagnoses. They're just middlemen. All they do is pay the bills after marking them up 30%. They don't do anything at all to make healthcare better or more efficient.

That's an understatement, if I've ever seen one. Legalized Robbery!

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

The people concur..

That the republicans are terrorists on our own turf. Yes, you are, for once, correct.

[Garcia Bronco]

The bill won't get passed either way. It's dead.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Just wait till obama sells us out by giving 12 + million illegals/potential democrat voters citizenship.

Ha ha ha!

Funny remark from a guy who spent the last eight years blowing a president who wanted amnesty and work visas for those same illegals.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by barryr

The healthcare plan is idiotic and will screw up what most people have, which most people are happy with what they have.

"Most people" are happy with the state of health care in America?

You just make this sh*t up as you go along, don't you?

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

"Most people" are happy with the state of health care in America?

You just make this sh*t up as you go along, don't you?

I'd like to see a poll supporting his assinine comment.