Offense, better or worse under McD? - The Orange Mane

LonghornBronco · 02-03-2010, 01:09 PM

The argument over how successful the offense was in 08 is a hard one to settle. So I looked at the stats from a different perspective. yards per play, and 3rd down efficiency. I think these two stats above the others really isolates the offense from the team stats such as points per game, as much as could be. It turns out Denver was second in the league in both these stats. While this season we were 15th and 22nd respectively.

Invariably I have to side with the McD bashers and say the offense has taken a step back. But, as is sometimes the case when you change system/philosophy(sp?) you can expect that. I'd say this comming year will tells us alot about the so called offensive genius.

PRBronco · 02-03-2010, 01:14 PM

It most certainly took a step back, that's what happens with new coaches (exept Jim Caldwell lol). He has a different system he wants to run, and one offseason wasnt' enough time to implement it (let's hope 2 is).

NFLBRONCO · 02-03-2010, 01:16 PM

It took steps back yes but, geez 1st yr of a new system unhappy players . Old system was in place ask us this in 2 yrs. Our better offense was way overrated in my ways.

oubronco · 02-03-2010, 01:18 PM

The 08' offense was set if we would've gotten a stud RB and could explode in a second and the young guys were explosive

The 09' offense was dull and bland with all the bubble screens and 3-5 yd passes and all the young players regressed

You make the call

Flex Gunmetal · 02-03-2010, 01:22 PM

Offensive PPG
2008: 23.1
2009: 20.4

Not an earth-shattering falloff.

kamakazi_kal · 02-03-2010, 01:23 PM

Is boring a stat?

TDmvp · 02-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamakazi_kal

Is boring a stat?

damn you

... I was in the middle of posting the same thing :O)

HAT · 02-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Sometimes you gotta take one step back to go two steps forward....

TDmvp · 02-03-2010, 01:25 PM

All I know is if I have to watch many more bubble screens I'm going to punch a baby :O) BM you can eat it after.

kamakazi_kal · 02-03-2010, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDmvp

All I know is if I have to watch many more bubble screens I'm going to punch a baby :O) BM you can eat it after.

punch for the throat .... I hear that's acceptable on the mane.

Flex Gunmetal · 02-03-2010, 01:27 PM

I will take PPG over YPP and 3rd% all day.

WolfpackGuy · 02-03-2010, 01:31 PM

Worse

cmhargrove · 02-03-2010, 01:33 PM

I'm ready to say this year (2010) and next (2011) will be the determining factors if we will ever be an "offensive juggernaut" like the undefeated Patriots squad under McDaniels.

To be fair, he was trying to work a square hole into a round peg last year. Dennison is a tremendous coach at what he does, but he isn't known as an inside running power-blocking guru. Same with Bobby Turner (one my all time favorites).

We turned the defensive roster inside out last year, and you get the feeling that some of that may be coming for the offense this year.

So to answer your question, we took a small step back this year, but if we have a solid run game that gets us to the playoffs by the end of next season, I am all for the changes.

cousinal11 · 02-03-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAT

Sometimes you gotta take one step back to go two steps forward....

Flex Gunmetal · 02-03-2010, 01:35 PM

The difference between the supporters and the haters is patience.
I support mcdaniels, because I support the broncos. I'm not saying if you don't support him, you don't support the broncos. It is just how I see it internally.

LonghornBronco · 02-03-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flex Gunmetal

I will take PPG over YPP and 3rd% all day.

At first glance PPG appears to be the "bottom line" for offensive potency, but would'nt you agree that bad defense could limit offensive touches and bad special teams could screw the offenses starting field possition, both affecting the PPG?

jhns · 02-03-2010, 01:42 PM

I agree with the original post. I think 3rd down and red zone efficiencies are key. Those both got worse. I also think the per play and per drive breakdowns really tell the whole story. If you look at these two charts, there is no debate. This years defense was way better than last years. This years offense was worse than last years.

http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats2008
http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats

Hopefully those work. It is hard to get links on my phone.

montrose · 02-03-2010, 01:51 PM

Oh boy here we go...

DBroncos4life · 02-03-2010, 02:00 PM

Other then turnovers the 09 O wasn't better in any stat so if anyone thinks we had a better O last year then the 08 is just being stubborn. The one part of the O that upsets me the most is the rushing. The 08 team out rushed and scored 6 more times then the 09 O while going through 7 RBs in the process. Anyways we will see what happens next year. We have things we need to work on that much is obvious.

Mediator12 · 02-03-2010, 02:02 PM

The offense regressed for sure, but it did not implode. I thought wrongly that they would gain less yards between the twenties, but make up for it with a higher red zone TD% with a stronger running game. That would essentially be a wash to me in the first year.

However, they did not get better at the end of the year, they got worse. This is a clear sign to me that they still lacked the personnel to get it done once scheme is no longer an advantage and the players are the determining factors in execution. And yes, that 2008 offense regressed horribly down the stretch too. Therefore, while a lot of people will complain ad hominem about the scheme and losing Cutler etc., the players in 2008 were not getting the job done the last 6 games either.

So, I hope they continue to make personnel adjustments on offense in order to be able to continue to execute down the stretch on both sides of the ball. This is a marvelous draft for Linemen on both sides and some quality players outside of QB. Plenty of opportunity in the draft, but FA could be extremely dicey this year.

PRBronco · 02-03-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montrose

Oh boy here we go...

On a related note...does anyone wish we had that first rounder we traded for Alphonso back?

I keed, go back on topic.

TheReverend · 02-03-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornBronco

The argument over how successful the offense was in 08 is a hard one to settle. So I looked at the stats from a different perspective. yards per play, and 3rd down efficiency. I think these two stats above the others really isolates the offense from the team stats such as points per game, as much as could be. It turns out Denver was second in the league in both these stats. While this season we were 15th and 22nd respectively.

Invariably I have to side with the McD bashers and say the offense has taken a step back. But, as is sometimes the case when you change system/philosophy(sp?) you can expect that. I'd say this comming year will tells us alot about the so called offensive genius.

No. It's really not.

sirhcyennek81 · 02-03-2010, 02:09 PM

DBroncos4life · 02-03-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

Jesus dude if you don't like football discussions on a message board and want to talk food go to a damn food message board.

sirhcyennek81 · 02-03-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

Jesus dude if you don't like football discussions on a message board and want to talk food go to a damn food message board.

Wow. Touchy a bit? Its fajitas. How can you hate fajitas? As for the "football" discussion, rehashing an old argument portrayed in 15 other threads is boring.

02-03-2010, 01:09 PM	#1
LonghornBronco Ring of Famer Hook'em Horns Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin Posts: 1,356 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rahim Moore	Offense, better or worse under McD? The argument over how successful the offense was in 08 is a hard one to settle. So I looked at the stats from a different perspective. yards per play, and 3rd down efficiency. I think these two stats above the others really isolates the offense from the team stats such as points per game, as much as could be. It turns out Denver was second in the league in both these stats. While this season we were 15th and 22nd respectively. Invariably I have to side with the McD bashers and say the offense has taken a step back. But, as is sometimes the case when you change system/philosophy(sp?) you can expect that. I'd say this comming year will tells us alot about the so called offensive genius.

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02-03-2010, 01:14 PM	#2
PRBronco FML less Join Date: May 2004 Location: North Vancouver Posts: 4,206 Adopt-a-Bronco: I'm so alone	It most certainly took a step back, that's what happens with new coaches (exept Jim Caldwell lol). He has a different system he wants to run, and one offseason wasnt' enough time to implement it (let's hope 2 is).

02-03-2010, 01:16 PM	#3
NFLBRONCO Ring of Famer Go Nuggets Go Lakers Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lafayette Colorado Posts: 7,381	It took steps back yes but, geez 1st yr of a new system unhappy players . Old system was in place ask us this in 2 yrs. Our better offense was way overrated in my ways.

02-03-2010, 01:18 PM	#4
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,570	The 08' offense was set if we would've gotten a stud RB and could explode in a second and the young guys were explosive The 09' offense was dull and bland with all the bubble screens and 3-5 yd passes and all the young players regressed You make the call

02-03-2010, 01:22 PM	#5
Flex Gunmetal Icy Fresh Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: COLORADO Posts: 3,031 Adopt-a-Bronco: Francis Daytona	Offensive PPG 2008: 23.1 2009: 20.4 Not an earth-shattering falloff.

02-03-2010, 01:23 PM	#6
kamakazi_kal I have a Teb0ner. Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,163 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mayhem Miller	Is boring a stat?

02-03-2010, 01:24 PM	#8
HAT I think, therefore I ham. Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,718 Adopt-a-Bronco: Adam Weber	Sometimes you gotta take one step back to go two steps forward....

02-03-2010, 01:25 PM	#9
TDmvp Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 8,049	All I know is if I have to watch many more bubble screens I'm going to punch a baby :O) BM you can eat it after.

02-03-2010, 01:27 PM	#11
Flex Gunmetal Icy Fresh Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: COLORADO Posts: 3,031 Adopt-a-Bronco: Francis Daytona	I will take PPG over YPP and 3rd% all day.

02-03-2010, 01:31 PM	#12
WolfpackGuy Call me, "Maybe" Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,674	Worse

02-03-2010, 01:33 PM	#13
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,396 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	I'm ready to say this year (2010) and next (2011) will be the determining factors if we will ever be an "offensive juggernaut" like the undefeated Patriots squad under McDaniels. To be fair, he was trying to work a square hole into a round peg last year. Dennison is a tremendous coach at what he does, but he isn't known as an inside running power-blocking guru. Same with Bobby Turner (one my all time favorites). We turned the defensive roster inside out last year, and you get the feeling that some of that may be coming for the offense this year. So to answer your question, we took a small step back this year, but if we have a solid run game that gets us to the playoffs by the end of next season, I am all for the changes.

02-03-2010, 01:35 PM	#15
Flex Gunmetal Icy Fresh Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: COLORADO Posts: 3,031 Adopt-a-Bronco: Francis Daytona	The difference between the supporters and the haters is patience. I support mcdaniels, because I support the broncos. I'm not saying if you don't support him, you don't support the broncos. It is just how I see it internally.

02-03-2010, 01:42 PM	#17
jhns I'm all up in your face but you still can't C me! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Omaha Posts: 12,405 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I agree with the original post. I think 3rd down and red zone efficiencies are key. Those both got worse. I also think the per play and per drive breakdowns really tell the whole story. If you look at these two charts, there is no debate. This years defense was way better than last years. This years offense was worse than last years. http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats2008 http://aaronschatz.com/stats/drivestats Hopefully those work. It is hard to get links on my phone.

02-03-2010, 01:51 PM	#18
montrose Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 6,095 Adopt-a-Bronco: VP John Elway	Oh boy here we go...

02-03-2010, 02:00 PM	#19
DBroncos4life Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU Why yes, that is Bacon Bacon. Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The wrong side of right. Posts: 26,522	Other then turnovers the 09 O wasn't better in any stat so if anyone thinks we had a better O last year then the 08 is just being stubborn. The one part of the O that upsets me the most is the rushing. The 08 team out rushed and scored 6 more times then the 09 O while going through 7 RBs in the process. Anyways we will see what happens next year. We have things we need to work on that much is obvious.

02-03-2010, 02:02 PM	#20
Mediator12 OM analyst REAL Front Seven Bandwagon !!! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: INDY Posts: 9,701 Adopt-a-Bronco: Malik Jackson	The offense regressed for sure, but it did not implode. I thought wrongly that they would gain less yards between the twenties, but make up for it with a higher red zone TD% with a stronger running game. That would essentially be a wash to me in the first year. However, they did not get better at the end of the year, they got worse. This is a clear sign to me that they still lacked the personnel to get it done once scheme is no longer an advantage and the players are the determining factors in execution. And yes, that 2008 offense regressed horribly down the stretch too. Therefore, while a lot of people will complain ad hominem about the scheme and losing Cutler etc., the players in 2008 were not getting the job done the last 6 games either. So, I hope they continue to make personnel adjustments on offense in order to be able to continue to execute down the stretch on both sides of the ball. This is a marvelous draft for Linemen on both sides and some quality players outside of QB. Plenty of opportunity in the draft, but FA could be extremely dicey this year.

02-03-2010, 02:09 PM	#23
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,668 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.