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Old 01-29-2010, 12:40 PM   #1
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Default Samuel doesn't care for the way Patriots treat their players

Thought this was noteworthy considering the new football operations philosophy the Broncos have undertaken. Highlights:

"I don't think they care about you, in my opinion," Asante Samuel regarding the Patriots. "They didn't care about me. So do what's best for you and your family."

"The way they treat people is not something I agree with," Samuel said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl...ory?id=4868868
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:45 PM   #2
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That is the same thing a lot of people have been saying including Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:46 PM   #3
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And yet... they've been competitive and/or champions for quite some time.

The 49ers used to get a lot of negative press for the way they "treated" their players during their big, dominant run.

I'm not saying you shouldn't make every effort to appease your players, but this often is translated to... "I want more money than I'm worth at this stage, and they won't give it to me."
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:10 PM   #4
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And yet... they've been competitive and/or champions for quite some time.

The 49ers used to get a lot of negative press for the way they "treated" their players during their big, dominant run.

I'm not saying you shouldn't make every effort to appease your players, but this often is translated to... "I want more money than I'm worth at this stage, and they won't give it to me."
They had a good stretch of 7 years with 6 good seasons, but the last two years they have been good and certainly not near the levels they achieved in their deep playoff runs. Belichick and Brady will keep them competitive, but it is pretty easy to see that talentwise they are nowhere near the teams of 2 or 3 years ago.

I am not saying all of that is due to them letting players go, they used to be able to do that and through good drafting replace players, but Belichicks golden touch in the draft has been MIA in the 2006, 07 and 08 drafts.

The Colts have been competitive for even longer than the Patriots and you don't hear the kind of moans about player treatment from Indianapolis and comparatively they are a small and poor club relative to New England. It is certainly not a requirement to be a championship level team to refuse to pay your players market value.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:11 PM   #5
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It's interesting to me that he would have this perspective because he now plays for the Eagles, a team that has a very cold, business like approach to dealing with players. They are well known for smartly locking up their younger players who they think have high future values for contracts that often later become "below market". They also frequently cut ties with aging/older players rather than "overpaying" despite some of these players often being very loyal and playing for less than they could perhaps have received previously on the open market. Brian Dawkins is the best recent example of this, and Bryan Westbrook will likely get dumped this offseason after years of loyalty to the team and contracts that could be considered "team friendly". But Samuel is one of the "haves" on the Eagles, a guy who got a huge FA contract. So of course his situation on the Eagles is considerably better than he had in NE. So while this doesn't necessarily excuse the way NE might treat their players, I'm not sure Samuel is the best spokesperson to make this case. There are certainly players on the Eagles who would say they treat players terribly, and their are certainly players on NE would would say they get treated well. It's the haves vs. the have nots.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:23 PM   #6
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It's interesting to me that he would have this perspective because he now plays for the Eagles, a team that has a very cold, business like approach to dealing with players. They are well known for smartly locking up their younger players who they think have high future values for contracts that often later become "below market". They also frequently cut ties with aging/older players rather than "overpaying" despite some of these players often being very loyal and playing for less than they could perhaps have received previously on the open market. Brian Dawkins is the best recent example of this
The best? More like "the only". I never heard of them having this rep before him. At least not in the same breath as New England.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #7
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The best? More like "the only". I never heard of them having this rep before him. At least not in the same breath as New England.
Bobby Taylor. Troy Vincent. Jeremiah Trotter. Deuce Staley. All semi recent.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:50 PM   #8
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Bobby Taylor. Troy Vincent. Jeremiah Trotter. Deuce Staley. All semi recent.
I'm talking about moves that other teams wouldn't necessarily make. Those guys were all done when they let them go. They weren't "Dawkins like" cases of older guys wanted one last big contract, not getting it in Philly, but getting it elsewhere. That's what I'm talking about.

Not only did none of those guys get big money elsewhere, but I don't think any of those guys had even so much as one full season of productive play after the Eagles let them go. They were DONE and the team, and the rest of the NFL, knew it.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:11 PM   #9
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And yet... they've been competitive and/or champions for quite some time.

The 49ers used to get a lot of negative press for the way they "treated" their players during their big, dominant run.

I'm not saying you shouldn't make every effort to appease your players, but this often is translated to... "I want more money than I'm worth at this stage, and they won't give it to me."
What NFL team wouldn't be competitive if it was cheating?
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:16 PM   #10
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Thought this was noteworthy considering the new football operations philosophy the Broncos have undertaken. Highlights:

"I don't think they care about you, in my opinion," Asante Samuel regarding the Patriots. "They didn't care about me. So do what's best for you and your family."

"The way they treat people is not something I agree with," Samuel said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl...ory?id=4868868
Football is a business. He needs to go out and get a job in the real world and find out what life is really like. No one cares about you or your family, only in real life they use the word FIRED rather than CUT.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:20 PM   #11
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Football is a business. He needs to go out and get a job in the real world and find out what life is really like. No one cares about you or your family, only in real life they use the word FIRED rather than CUT.
I'm sayin.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:25 PM   #12
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The 49ers used to get a lot of negative press for the way they "treated" their players during their big, dominant run.
That isn't how I recollect those 9ers team to have been. Walsh was vastly different with how he "treated" players.

Summed up in this story.

The Bill Walsh Way

When Bill Walsh was hired as head coach and general manager of the San Francisco 49ers it was indisputably the worst franchise in the NFL -- some analysts claimed the worst in all of sports. In the season before he took charge the team struggled to achieve a 2-14 record.

In this toxic and mutinous organizational culture, Bill Walsh would be their third new head coach in a year. Thirty-six months later, San Francisco won Super Bowl XVI. The white-haired, corporate-style leader had transformed the NFL doormat into an incipient dynasty that would ultimately win five Super Bowls.

So how did he do it?

Bill had extraordinary leadership assets: a brilliant mind; organizational mastery; a keen eye for talent (e.g., Hall of Famers Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Steve Young, Ronnie Lott); an astute understanding of the game's X's and O's; off-the-charts creativity (The West Coast Offense); and a poet's insights into human nature.

Bill shared his unique philosophy of leadership with me when we were working together on what turned out to be his final book, The Score Takes Care of Itself (Bill sadly passed away in 2007).

Great leadership, for him, started with a particular code of conduct. He told me, "I believe that an organization is not an inert tool like a shovel, but an organic entity that must have a code of conduct, a high standard of performance in actions and attitudes."

The Bill Walsh code of conduct -- those "standards" -- started with a simple mantra: "Treat people right." Even during his early desperate days at San Francisco, a first priority was that members of his organization, both those on and off the field, be treated fairly and with respect by ownership and management. (He also demanded that employees treat one another with respect; there was no caste system.)

Bill believed this was not only ethical, but that it offered a significant reward: "Highly qualified people, whether a superstar quarterback or a secretary, want to be part of an organization they feel will care about them and their interests, a team that will treat them right."

Walsh understood from personal experience what happens when such standards are ignored. He'd been the victim of what he considered unscrupulous treatment while working as an assistant for the Cincinnati Bengals under head coach Paul Brown, a football genius whose absolute commitment to his team's welfare was a virtual obsession, sometimes to his own detriment.

As Bill recalled, Brown had tacitly promised him the Bengals' head coaching position upon his retirement. Instead, Walsh was passed over for another assistant coach. Deeply dismayed, he began contacting other NFL teams for possible employment, ideally as a head coach, but if not, then as offensive coordinator.

In the following weeks he began hearing from owners and others that Paul Brown was giving him bad reviews in spite of his great success at Cincinnati -- dismissive of his potential as a head coach or even an offensive coordinator. At the same time Bill was being offered a generous raise and much greater responsibilities with the Bengals. Paul Brown seemed to be deliberately sabotaging the career aspirations and advancement of a loyal employee; Bill Walsh resigned immediately.

Soon after he accepted a job as quarterbacks coach with the San Diego Chargers under head coach Tommy Prothro. One year later Stanford University called to offer the job of head football coach, a position that led directly to being noticed and hired by San Francisco 49ers. Tommy Prothro had encouraged Bill to take the job.

Walsh never forgot the bitter lesson he learned while at Cincinnati, nor the positive one from Tommy Prothro. At San Francisco he put the welfare of the team first, but not at the expense of sabotaging an individual's personal or professional welfare. (When the New York Giants sought permission from Walsh to approach the 49ers outstanding defensive coach Ray Rhodes with a job offer even though he still had one year remaining on his contract, Walsh said yes.)

Bill's beliefs about treating people right could be summed up in the simple phrase, "What goes around comes around." In our discussions Bill said that as word of his treatment at Cincinnati got around the league, it hurt the Bengals. "How eager would you be to join an organization that might betray your loyalty?" he asked. He also knew from the phone calls he began receiving from players, agents, and assistant coaches that San Francisco had become a destination team, in part, because talented people throughout the NFL knew that Bill Walsh meant it when he said, "Treat people right."

Regarding the last paragraph. Does anybody think Denver is still a 'destination team'?
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:25 PM   #13
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Bobby Taylor. Troy Vincent. Jeremiah Trotter. Deuce Staley. All semi recent.
Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown, Shawn Andrews and Ellis Hobbs are all players whom have been unhappy with their Eagles contracts or have been dumped.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #14
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I just can't listen to guys that get paid a king's ransome to play a kids game complain about money or job security.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:42 PM   #15
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Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown, Shawn Andrews and Ellis Hobbs are all players whom have been unhappy with their Eagles contracts or have been dumped.
Every team has guys that aren't happy with their contracts.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:43 PM   #16
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:44 PM   #17
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Lito Sheppard, Sheldon Brown, Shawn Andrews and Ellis Hobbs are all players whom have been unhappy with their Eagles contracts or have been dumped.
T.O. had an epic battle with them over $. Carlos Emmons several years ago. Westbrook has been a bit unhappy but stuck around. DeSean Jackson will demand more money this offseason. They've taken care of McNabb (until now where he's playing on the last upcoming year of a contract) and select FA's but been smart and frugal more than not for the most part otherwise.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:55 PM   #18
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I'm talking about moves that other teams wouldn't necessarily make. Those guys were all done when they let them go. They weren't "Dawkins like" cases of older guys wanted one last big contract, not getting it in Philly, but getting it elsewhere. That's what I'm talking about.

Not only did none of those guys get big money elsewhere, but I don't think any of those guys had even so much as one full season of productive play after the Eagles let them go. They were DONE and the team, and the rest of the NFL, knew it.
Jeremiah Trotter fits that description extremely well outside of the "older guys" part... which isn't anything that has to do with the actual thread topic, but so be it.

Troy Vincent played 4 more NFL seasons after Philly, as an "older guy wanting one more contract" and had one of the best season's of his career wtih the Bills in 2005.

I disagree about Duce Staley being done. He never arrived to have a chance to be done, imo. That being said, his best season in his career came in Pitt after being unceremoniously dumped by the Eagles despite being a fan favorite until injury.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:04 PM   #19
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What NFL team wouldn't be competitive if it was cheating?
Yea, I don't know about all of that. I'm convinced that all NFL teams cheat to some extent, whether it's video cameras, moles, stealing playbooks, former players giving info or taking steroids.

They didn't win those SBs because of a couple of practices taped. Doesn't mean it's right. It's not. But, it's an overstatement to say that any team would have won if they cheated.

All teams cheat.

The Pats just got caught.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:11 PM   #20
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Jeremiah Trotter fits that description extremely well outside of the "older guys" part... which isn't anything that has to do with the actual thread topic, but so be it.
Look at MY original post. It was a response to a very specific part of TonyR's post which explicitly mentioned "older guys". It was the basis for my entire post and I'm still waiting for even one more example besides Dawkins.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:14 PM   #21
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That is the same thing a lot of people have been saying including Lawyer Milloy, Deion Branch, Vince Wilfork and Richard Seymour.
When I read the comments that started this thread, I was thinking that the Pats must be doing something wrong to their players. Then I read the list of players here, and, well, they all have Super Bowl rings. Yeah, most have been rough.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:20 PM   #22
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Regarding the last paragraph. Does anybody think Denver is still a 'destination team'?
I believe teams become destination teams for two reasons...

1. $$$

2. Winning


Outside of that, you get into issues like... how hard do they practice, what's the city like, weather, etc.

I lived in San Fran when the 9ers were in the later stages of their dynasty and can tell you that when they stopped winning, you started to hear more about how the players weren't always treated right. Guys like Montana and Lott were sent packing, and many saw that in a negative light.

I really don't know where Denver falls in regards to being a "destination" franchise. I know we had our best FA signing period of the last 10 years last season, and I know that "destination" players are only part of the puzzle. Drafting properly is where you build much of your core.

I'd put us somewhere in the middle of the pack right now. We're 8-8. We've got some good points and some controversial points. So, it's just about making the right contract offers and selling guys on the system.

Finish 10-6 next year (for example) and you'll see more "destination" cred in Denver again.
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Old 01-29-2010, 04:22 PM   #23
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Look at MY original post. It was a response to a very specific part of TonyR's post which explicitly mentioned "older guys". It was the basis for my entire post and I'm still waiting for even one more example besides Dawkins.
So you didn't read Troy Vincent?

He fits the description to a T...
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:47 PM   #24
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Bill Walsh's story is strangely reminiscent of what I feel is going on in my own career. Not that I'm, you know... Bill Walsh or anything.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:53 PM   #25
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I just can't listen to guys that get paid a king's ransome to play a kids game complain about money or job security.
Agreed, they just need to STFU and play
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