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View Poll Results: Where is this franchise headed?
It’s been rocky, but we’re making progress and good things are ahead for this franchise. 76 66.09%
We’re on the wrong path, and this staff will imminently wash out. 39 33.91%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-21-2010, 03:43 PM   #1
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Default Taking the Forum's temperature: Post-season edition..

So, we're coming up on free agency and the draft. After a season full of ups and downs, I'm curious where the hearts of Broncos fans are at this stage.


Heading into these big events (draft/FA) ...

Whatcha think?
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:45 PM   #2
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I'm hoping for the best as always
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:53 PM   #3
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Old 01-21-2010, 03:54 PM   #4
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I'm hoping I'm wrong.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:05 PM   #5
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You should have put a mushy middle option. That would probably have garnered just as many votes as either of these two.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:12 PM   #6
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Where is the "I love Extreme Skins" and Mike Shanahan option
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:14 PM   #7
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Some folks around here prefer their temperatures be taken rectally. ( just a heads up)
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:21 PM   #8
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It's too early to tell. Josh's first year has been probably the most extreme of any I've ever seen. He admitted he wasn't confident of what he was up to in last year's draft. I think we'll have a much better idea after FA and the draft - who he keeps, who he cuts, who he brings in to coach, etc. It will still be some while before we can enjoy the stability we've taken for granted the last ten years or so. Of course, that "stability" wasn't taking us anywhere. Bowlen rolled the dice. I'm still not sure if its seven or craps.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:31 PM   #9
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There's not enough time for Josh ... we've regressed too far in the personnel area. A year ago we were loaded on offense, and could've concentrated 90% of our resources on defense. But now suddenly we need a #1 WR, a QBOTF, and a pass-catching TE, among other things.

I honestly don't think Josh has enough years to build the roster back up, even to where it was a year ago ... and frankly he hasn't shown he has the people skills necessary to foster a winning atmosphere.

I'm guessing a sub-500 2010, and he'll be gone sometime during or after 2011.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:37 PM   #10
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I agree with Taco on the mushy middle option. Where are we going? I don't know. There are rays of hope and a basis of fear at the same time.

On offense, we've got reason to believe in the creativity and competence of head coach and his staff. They were able to confuse opponents for almost half a season with their schemes and on the whole, they did about as good as any staff could be expected to in turning chicken **** (Orton) into chicken salad. By the same token, they've also stripped out the famed ZBS and long tenured and competent coaches like Dennison and Turner were let go. It remains to be seen whether they can succeed with their new scheme. The days of plugging in a marginal talent and getting more than marginal production at the position are over. The Broncos cannot take it for granted any longer, they have to worry about their running game. The Broncos also have to worry about their offensive line. It's been almost appalling to see how this group has been warped in the transition. To be fair, factors outside of the staff's control (injuries and age) have also contributed to our decline in that area. I'm still opposed to the ditching of the ZBS, but I'm hopeful that we can replace the interior. It's been correctly pointed out that we've struggled in the past converting in the red zone and on the goalline with the ZBS, but I think this season proved that it wasn't so much the system but rather the personnel that led to that problem. I'm interested to see how the staff goes about getting bigger in the middle of the line. It will be absolutely critical not only in the red zone and goalline, but also in our "4-minute offense", when we're trying to protect a small lead and run out the clock at the end of halves and games.

The elimination of the tight end in the passing game and the decline of Eddie Royal also have to be troublesome. But, I am encouraged by Josh's comments about Royal. He DOES recognize that he needs to do a better job of incorporating him into the offense and he deserves credit for pointing that out on his own accord shortly after the season. Given his statement, I have confidence he will work to adjust the offense in the necessary ways to incorporate Eddie's talent more next season. Outside of the line, I think many of us are quite concerned about QB. I know that's a subject of deep divide here and in fact, its ALWAYS been that way. My own view is Orton should be extended on a very short term basis, only. That the FA market is thin in that department doesn't change the fact that he's not the answer. It's not his fault ofcourse. He's a hard worker and gamer, but that's not good enough. You've got to have some actual ability, too. My confidence in this offensive staff going forward will largely be determined by how they address this spot in the offseason. I can't give my thoughts because I don't know what their approach is yet on this. If they offer Orton a long term deal with a large bonus, that will be a terrible development from my view and really shake my confidence in them.

On defense, I really don't know what to think. I was happy with Mike Nolan and the job he did. I am very critical of the decision to let him go. There does appear to be some support for the suggestion that Josh does not get along with people well and that it's hurting our franchise. We'll see if Dean Pees or whoever they hire can replicate Nolan's success. It's been pointed out that we don't know was really responsible for the defensive improvement this year. I find it hard to believe that McDaniels was somehow directing the schemes during the 6-0 run, but Nolan was during the downturn. This is the type of after the fact homerism that's long been problematic on this board. Nolan is the coordinator, it is his defense. Likewise, Josh is the GM on talent. He brought in those players that were effective. So while I lament the loss of Nolan's undeniable coaching talent, the one thing I am encouraged by is that Josh's FA choices on D last year suggest he knows how to add credible talent to a defense. Dawkins did a nice job, Goodman did a nice job, Hill did a nice job, Davis did a nice job, Fields did a nice job and the cost as a whole was not that great. Josh deserves credit for that and it suggests his evaluations are reliable. Whether his new DC can actually scheme a defense and utilize talent like Nolan did is another question.

On the whole, I'm probably concerned about a few more things than I am hopeful about, but the difference is not great between the two. I'm definitely in the "mushy middle".
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
You should have put a mushy middle option. That would probably have garnered just as many votes as either of these two.
True, but it's more interesting to ask people to dig down and answer with what their gut tells them. Because ultimately, it's one or the other.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:45 PM   #12
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No undecided and we'll know a lot more this time next year option?
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:46 PM   #13
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In that case I HAVE to vote for wrong path, since I lean a lot closer to that option than progress. In fact, the only signs of progress I've even seen just skipped town to Miami...
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:48 PM   #14
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Dumbass...

DOWNHILL!

Last edited by watermock; 01-21-2010 at 04:50 PM..
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:51 PM   #15
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Based on these two options, I can't see where we're making much progress. We were better, but older on D and we look to be shedding much of what seemed to be a promising young offense for years to come.
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:56 PM   #16
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I think I need to see one more draft and offseason before I can choose a side. As most fans, I am hoping for the best. But I was stoked about our direction this time last offseason, I was on the "just focus free agency and the draft on fixing our D because the pieces are there on offense to be special" bandwagon... and then Shanny was fired. I was pissed. Then I started to accept a change was needed, and we lose our QB... etc. Offseason of seemingly never ending drama. I put it all behind me and just hoped for the best. We start 6-0, and its looking like it was the right moves. Then the collapse. End of season drama with Marshall and Scheffler. Drama with Nolan. There has been so much change, and Josh has not yet proven he can solve problems diplomatically, and he has yet to show he can hit on the draft. None of our picks had stellar rookie seasons. We saw flashes, but thats it. And of all the choices he has made, trading the first round pick for a 2nd rounder still bugs me perhaps most of all.


So, I need time. I need to see what moves we make, how they handle certain issues facing the team, etc. There is too many elements in flux, and too many things that have yet to be proven. Josh's stubbornness will either save us or bury us. I do like McDaniels, I find his emotion refreshing. His offense takes time to learn and perfect, I expect us to be better this year simply based on having a season under our belt. But I can't fully endorse this staff until they have proven something
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Old 01-21-2010, 04:59 PM   #17
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Right now it is crap shoot. For any positive steps taken there were three to four missteps that were ****ing disasters. The draft will be very important if this team is going to move in the right direction.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:01 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
I agree with Taco on the mushy middle option. Where are we going? I don't know. There are rays of hope and a basis of fear at the same time.

On offense, we've got reason to believe in the creativity and competence of head coach and his staff. They were able to confuse opponents for almost half a season with their schemes and on the whole, they did about as good as any staff could be expected to in turning chicken **** (Orton) into chicken salad. By the same token, they've also stripped out the famed ZBS and long tenured and competent coaches like Dennison and Turner were let go. It remains to be seen whether they can succeed with their new scheme. The days of plugging in a marginal talent and getting more than marginal production at the position are over. The Broncos cannot take it for granted any longer, they have to worry about their running game. The Broncos also have to worry about their offensive line. It's been almost appalling to see how this group has been warped in the transition. To be fair, factors outside of the staff's control (injuries and age) have also contributed to our decline in that area. I'm still opposed to the ditching of the ZBS, but I'm hopeful that we can replace the interior. It's been correctly pointed out that we've struggled in the past converting in the red zone and on the goalline with the ZBS, but I think this season proved that it wasn't so much the system but rather the personnel that led to that problem. I'm interested to see how the staff goes about getting bigger in the middle of the line. It will be absolutely critical not only in the red zone and goalline, but also in our "4-minute offense", when we're trying to protect a small lead and run out the clock at the end of halves and games.

The elimination of the tight end in the passing game and the decline of Eddie Royal also have to be troublesome. But, I am encouraged by Josh's comments about Royal. He DOES recognize that he needs to do a better job of incorporating him into the offense and he deserves credit for pointing that out on his own accord shortly after the season. Given his statement, I have confidence he will work to adjust the offense in the necessary ways to incorporate Eddie's talent more next season. Outside of the line, I think many of us are quite concerned about QB. I know that's a subject of deep divide here and in fact, its ALWAYS been that way. My own view is Orton should be extended on a very short term basis, only. That the FA market is thin in that department doesn't change the fact that he's not the answer. It's not his fault ofcourse. He's a hard worker and gamer, but that's not good enough. You've got to have some actual ability, too. My confidence in this offensive staff going forward will largely be determined by how they address this spot in the offseason. I can't give my thoughts because I don't know what their approach is yet on this. If they offer Orton a long term deal with a large bonus, that will be a terrible development from my view and really shake my confidence in them.

On defense, I really don't know what to think. I was happy with Mike Nolan and the job he did. I am very critical of the decision to let him go. There does appear to be some support for the suggestion that Josh does not get along with people well and that it's hurting our franchise. We'll see if Dean Pees or whoever they hire can replicate Nolan's success. It's been pointed out that we don't know was really responsible for the defensive improvement this year. I find it hard to believe that McDaniels was somehow directing the schemes during the 6-0 run, but Nolan was during the downturn. This is the type of after the fact homerism that's long been problematic on this board. Nolan is the coordinator, it is his defense. Likewise, Josh is the GM on talent. He brought in those players that were effective. So while I lament the loss of Nolan's undeniable coaching talent, the one thing I am encouraged by is that Josh's FA choices on D last year suggest he knows how to add credible talent to a defense. Dawkins did a nice job, Goodman did a nice job, Hill did a nice job, Davis did a nice job, Fields did a nice job and the cost as a whole was not that great. Josh deserves credit for that and it suggests his evaluations are reliable. Whether his new DC can actually scheme a defense and utilize talent like Nolan did is another question.

On the whole, I'm probably concerned about a few more things than I am hopeful about, but the difference is not great between the two. I'm definitely in the "mushy middle".
Very nice post, and while I don't agree with all of that it's a solid take.

I don't mind the pessimism when it's backed up by logical coherent thought. Sadly many people on this forum are content with "dumbass... Downhill!" comments and think that passes for engaging discourse.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:07 PM   #19
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In that case I HAVE to vote for wrong path, since I lean a lot closer to that option than progress. In fact, the only signs of progress I've even seen just skipped town to Miami...

Remember folks around here predicted epic complete failure before the 08 season i have faith in the chia pet head coach
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:11 PM   #20
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Right now it is crap shoot. For any positive steps taken there were three to four missteps that were ****ing disasters. The draft will be very important if this team is going to move in the right direction.
Yes, but the draft will take too long to save Josh.

Remember, even Brandon Marshall barely played his rookie year.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:30 PM   #21
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I have faith in the young man.
I've seen too many "experienced" coaches fail with better "talent".
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Right now it is crap shoot. For any positive steps taken there were three to four missteps that were ****ing disasters. The draft will be very important if this team is going to move in the right direction.
I agree the draft is very important but I think the way they handle Marshall's apparent departure will tell a lot about how things go.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:45 PM   #23
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True, but it's more interesting to ask people to dig down and answer with what their gut tells them. Because ultimately, it's one or the other.
There will be a lot of people who will be inclined to abstain because they truly can't decide between one or the other.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
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There will be a lot of people who will be inclined to abstain because they truly can't decide between one or the other.
Fair enough.

This is more to gauge instinct, not to see who's "right."


The stock market is going to open tomorrow and go up or down. It won't go "I can't decide."

This poll is just to gauge the general feeling of things... and to see where people fall on the issue.


(The market will open down tomorrow, btw.)
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:51 PM   #25
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If this were the market, my choices would be buy/sell/hold.

I would hold my position. I wouldn't buy any more. I wouldn't sell any more. I would hold my position and wait for more indicators.
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