The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2010, 07:20 PM   #1
The MVPlaya
Denver Broncos
 
The MVPlaya's Avatar
 
out with the old, IN WITH THE NEW

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,383
Default Here's why not to miss Mike Nolan, and why McDaniels is smarter than you

I hope everyone to this point has finally accepted these points:

1. Mike Nolan was a conservative defensive coordinator before the Broncos.

2. Josh McDaniels said we'd be running an aggressive attacking style defense before the season, and during the season.

3. They both have the same agent, this is probably why it was easy to get Nolan here in the first place.

4. We were 26th in the league in run defense and could not stop it down the stretch.

Now - after some research, it's pretty evident Nolan leaving could have had to do with agreements on defense. Nolan wanting to be in Miami could be the bigger/main factor, but definitely understand that McDaniels and Nolan probably were not on the same page at all times.

Remember McDaniels said that blitzing against the run was NOT a good formula? Well, McDaniels is spot on with this point because outside of basic defensive logic - for example: none of the top defenses blitz to stop the run. This is WHY it is so important to get a good dline, and why Ayers was probably drafted.

This is probably why McDaniels likes to have big players on the front 7.

Guess what?

Mike Nolan blitzes to stop the run, and it's been a "staple" to his defense. (As notated here... http://www.milehighreport.com/2010/1...daniels-wanted)

Now to further go in on this - I was talking to some more Niners fans, and numerous times throughout his tenure there it was a huge debate and problem about how he would fucc up his blitzes causing Niners to give up huge plays (hence why Niners lead the league in most big plays given up on year, and always being last in defense). It probably helped us a bit this year having a veteran secondary too. It was known by the fans/media in the bay area that Nolan would blitz to stop the run, something that would hurt the defense down the line. One of his main faults to his failures - he would always be fuccing up when blitzing. I would link you guys to proof but the 49ers board search does not work.

Personally - I think it is quite obvious that blitzing is not a good formula to stop the run unless you're playing Madden. I did NOT know that this was in Mike Nolan's scheme.

So for some of you, maybe this will lighten things up/help keep you at ease.

Blitzing is not a good idea to stop the run - it is what Nolan does.

The last main and key points I want to make:

1. Maybe it's a better idea that the head coach oversees the defense or has some say instead of giving all the powers to him? Coord. come and go like players, so what happens when one leaves that had full control? Not exactly a bright ending, and you're left with choices of promoting a position coach.

2. Steelers is an obvious exception.

3. Mike Nolan was only here for 1 season and our defense looked ****ty at seasons end.

4. Mike Nolan is gone and we shall move forward...





EDIT -
More proof of Nolan's conservative ways

http://www.modbee.com/sports/story/146073.html

Quote:
One of Nolan's most criticized traits has been his conservative coaching style.
"I think Nolan is very intelligent," said Harry Mitchell, 44, of Modesto. "But his conservative ways will lead the 49ers into mediocrity.
"When Nolan was the defensive coordinator with the Washington Redskins, (owner) Daniel Snyder would get so upset with Nolan and his "vanilla" playcalling and schemes, after one practice, he left a gallon of Neapolitan sherbet on Nolan's desk and a note that said 'This is what I like. Not Vanilla.' Needless to say, Nolan soon left to the Jets. It seems his conservative ways have followed him here."

Last edited by The MVPlaya; 01-24-2010 at 04:01 AM..
The MVPlaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-20-2010, 07:30 PM   #2
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,653

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

I'll be satiated if we get Pees. If we get a crappy replacement, I might just join the rabble-rousers.

I'll still miss Nolan, though.
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:32 PM   #3
no-pseudo-fan
True Orange & Blue
 
no-pseudo-fan's Avatar
 
Follow me...

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: EPT
Posts: 2,113

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Hidalgo
Default

You don't even know me.

McD made some great moves in FA last year. He was a little impatient during the draft, but I am willing to give it time. He brought in great coaches. I want to see us improve next season, and make a playoff push cuz I hate the off season
no-pseudo-fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:45 PM   #4
SoDak Bronco
Lace em' up and lets go!!
 
SoDak Bronco's Avatar
 
Von Miller aka QB Killa

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,226

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Robert Ayers
Default

When have a ****ty front seven you have to blitz. When you aren't making plays and getting gashed playing straight up, you have to mix it up to try and make something happen.
SoDak Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:47 PM   #5
The MVPlaya
Denver Broncos
 
The MVPlaya's Avatar
 
out with the old, IN WITH THE NEW

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDak Bronco View Post
When have a ****ty front seven you have to blitz. When you aren't making plays and getting gashed playing straight up, you have to mix it up to try and make something happen.
Well you pretty much saw what happen when we did...
The MVPlaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:49 PM   #6
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,080

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Hmm, I wonder if Nolan's defenses ever finished in the top of the league... hmm boy it looks like his Ravens defenses - who also blitzed against the run - finished in the top 5 of the league in 2 of his 3 years there. I wonder if Mike Nolan knows more about NFL defensive coaching than mvplaya - hmm, considering only one of them is being paid millions to orchestrate an NFL defense I would say there is certainly evidence to suggest that.

Teams where the defensive coordinator takes care of the game plan include:

Giants and Steelers who have won 3 of the last 4 super bowls, I wonder if it is a bad idea.

Mike Nolan took our defense from 29th to 7th in one year, Mcdaniels took our offense from 16th to 19th in one year.

It would be nice to move forward, but lets see Mcdaniels do better with the defense than he did with the offense because some would suggest that based on history we might be moving backwards with this move.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:52 PM   #7
BroncoMan4ever
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoMan4ever's Avatar
 
That's just like your opinion, man

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,348

Adopt-a-Bronco:
VIRGIL GREEN!!!
Default

that was a interesting breakdown of the Nolan tendencies, but damn i just want some stability on the defense. every year we have new coaches and have to shuffle the roster again. we need to get someone and just plug the guy in for the next few years.
BroncoMan4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:52 PM   #8
OCBronco
Seasoned Veteran
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 256

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

I agree on most points. Nolan was a big help in transitioning the defense to being somewhat effective. I imagine McDaniels will continue to bolster the D this coming offseason, both with the coaches and the players. More talent in the front seven will go a long way towards helping improve that #26 ranking.
OCBronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:54 PM   #9
Borks147
the dude abides...
 
Borks147's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hanover NH
Posts: 1,845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Hmm, I wonder if Nolan's defenses ever finished in the top of the league... hmm boy it looks like his Ravens defenses - who also blitzed against the run - finished in the top 5 of the league in 2 of his 3 years there. I wonder if Mike Nolan knows more about NFL defensive coaching than mvplaya - hmm, considering only one of them is being paid millions to orchestrate an NFL defense I would say there is certainly evidence to suggest that.

Teams where the defensive coordinator takes care of the game plan include:

Giants and Steelers who have won 3 of the last 4 super bowls, I wonder if it is a bad idea.

Mike Nolan took our defense from 29th to 7th in one year, Mcdaniels took our offense from 16th to 19th in one year.

It would be nice to move forward, but lets see Mcdaniels do better with the defense than he did with the offense because some would suggest that based on history we might be moving backwards with this move.
Borks147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:58 PM   #10
Bob's your Information Minister
Chiefs > Broncos
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 26,137

Adopt-a-Bronco:
CHRIS KUPER!!!
Default

bla bla bla

This reeks of Larry Coyer redux
Bob's your Information Minister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:00 PM   #11
Ray Finkle
DOOONNNTTTTT CAAARRREEE!
 
Ray Finkle's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 7,536
Default

But he doesn't understand what it means to be a Bronco (sorry TJ)....
Ray Finkle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:04 PM   #12
SoDak Bronco
Lace em' up and lets go!!
 
SoDak Bronco's Avatar
 
Von Miller aka QB Killa

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,226

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Robert Ayers
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MVPlaya View Post
Well you pretty much saw what happen when we did...
Not sure your point here. I am saying we dont have the players to run either scheme and be successful over the course of the season. We are going to continue to struggle unless we get some beef upfront and hopefully an offense that can score some more points to put pressure on the opposing teams offense to play us differently.
SoDak Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:04 PM   #13
The MVPlaya
Denver Broncos
 
The MVPlaya's Avatar
 
out with the old, IN WITH THE NEW

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,383
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Hmm, I wonder if Nolan's defenses ever finished in the top of the league... hmm boy it looks like his Ravens defenses - who also blitzed against the run - finished in the top 5 of the league in 2 of his 3 years there. I wonder if Mike Nolan knows more about NFL defensive coaching than mvplaya - hmm, considering only one of them is being paid millions to orchestrate an NFL defense I would say there is certainly evidence to suggest that.
Yeah the defense he took over from Marvin Lewis? The defense that had 11 pro bowlers on defense (exaggeration). Or how about Mike Nolan's history has been more of letdowns than actual success? Yeah he knows more - but how about you start looking what I'm saying ?

I said Steelers are an OBVIOUS exception.

Quote:
Teams where the defensive coordinator takes care of the game plan include:

Giants and Steelers who have won 3 of the last 4 super bowls, I wonder if it is a bad idea.

Mike Nolan took our defense from 29th to 7th in one year, Mcdaniels took our offense from 16th to 19th in one year.

It would be nice to move forward, but lets see Mcdaniels do better with the defense than he did with the offense because some would suggest that based on history we might be moving backwards with this move.
No one is saying that a defense cord shouldn't take care of the game plan - if the HC and he are on the same page then obviously it's not an ISSUE. I highly doubt in many of those cases you'll see the head coach blindly allowing the dcord to do what he likes.

Yeah, it's not that hard to do better after how the defense played in the second half of the season.
The MVPlaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:08 PM   #14
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,653

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister View Post
bla bla bla

This reeks of Larry Coyer redux
Coyer was clearly a scapegoat. This isn't anything like that.
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:15 PM   #15
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Mike Nolan this is your third and final page to get under the bus......
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:24 PM   #16
Broncos4tw
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,445
Default

Yea.. I dunno what he was thinking. First year and all, vastly improving our D, he clearly sucked and should go. Of course, in the same light, McDaniels sucked and should also go. Wait.. he is a god.. Nolan sucks.. dang, I don't get it.
Broncos4tw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:29 PM   #17
The MVPlaya
Denver Broncos
 
The MVPlaya's Avatar
 
out with the old, IN WITH THE NEW

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,383
Default

No one said NOLAN SUCKS... but for damn sure he has more in his career than hasn't - especially in his past 4 years.

No one is saying Nolan should go either

This is for the people acting like Nolan is Dick LeBeau
The MVPlaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:33 PM   #18
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Hmm, I wonder if Nolan's defenses ever finished in the top of the league... hmm boy it looks like his Ravens defenses - who also blitzed against the run - finished in the top 5 of the league in 2 of his 3 years there. I wonder if Mike Nolan knows more about NFL defensive coaching than mvplaya - hmm, considering only one of them is being paid millions to orchestrate an NFL defense I would say there is certainly evidence to suggest that.

Teams where the defensive coordinator takes care of the game plan include:

Giants and Steelers who have won 3 of the last 4 super bowls, I wonder if it is a bad idea.

Mike Nolan took our defense from 29th to 7th in one year, Mcdaniels took our offense from 16th to 19th in one year.

It would be nice to move forward, but lets see Mcdaniels do better with the defense than he did with the offense because some would suggest that based on history we might be moving backwards with this move.
If we want to start discussing successful history as a DC, Nolan is pretty damn spotty. In 11 seasons as a DC he has had 3 or 4 top defenses, and never have they been back to back. His defenses on the giants disintegrated from a top 5 unit in 1993 to number 17 by 1996. With the Skins he had a top 10 defense in the first season and it wasn't even in the top 25 two years later. The Ravens years are where Nolan seems to have established his name, of course there was that middle year of his tenure were the defense was bottom half of the league. I believe that was the year Ray Lewis was injured. If you believe in trends, and I do, Miami will have a pretty good D next season...followed by an annual worsening.

Honestly, I think the guy is good, better than solid, but he isn't some sort of guru. I do appreciate his help in making the D look respectable again, for a lot of the time. That said, I think that any competent DC was gonna look like a genius after Slowick. I think the defense will be fine, once it gets a little more talent infused, and the young guys develop.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:42 PM   #19
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MVPlaya View Post
No one said NOLAN SUCKS... but for damn sure he has more in his career than hasn't - especially in his past 4 years.

No one is saying Nolan should go either

This is for the people acting like Nolan is Dick LeBeau
Do you happen to have a list of successful teams that have gone through as many DC's as us in the last 10 years?

He isn't Dick LeBeau but lets not start thread saying well here is why we won't miss Mike Nolan and point out his flaws during his FIRST year in a major overhaul of a D. You might be one of a few people that don't want the team to have consistency and continuity because what the **** right there might be someone that could have done a better job out there.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:54 PM   #20
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,080

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The MVPlaya View Post
Yeah the defense he took over from Marvin Lewis? The defense that had 11 pro bowlers on defense (exaggeration). Or how about Mike Nolan's history has been more of letdowns than actual success? Yeah he knows more - but how about you start looking what I'm saying ?
That defense had 2 players who had been to the pro bowl prior to Nolan taking over: Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware. That is it, 2.

So you are saying that it is not impressive at all how he took a defense with 2 pro bowlers to become a top 5 unit in the league?

The defense that Marvin Lewis had featured guys like Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams and Michael Mcrary, all of whom were gone when Nolan took over.

Nolan took over a Giants defense that finished 3rd worst in the league in points and tranformed it into the best unit in his first year and a top 10 unit in 3 of his 4 years there. Not a letdown.

Nolan took the Ravens to top 10 in scoring defense in 3 of 4 years there. Not a letdown.

Nolan may not be a good head coach but the defense in San Fransisco improved while he was there and the talent on the unit improved a lot while he was there. Considering he took over the worst unit in the league and acquired such talent as Willis, Franklin, Haralson, Goldson, Lewis, Sopoaga, Smith, Lawson, Brooks. That unit is now one of the best with the players he acquired, I wouldn't call that a defensive let down.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:06 PM   #21
gunns
I WANT DEFENSE!
 
gunns's Avatar
 
Defense, defense, defense

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Always Hoping
Posts: 12,575

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TJ Ward
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aborquez147 View Post
I don't think it's hate, a lot were facts. We are not going to win a SB until the defense improves and becomes dominant. Nolan didn't have the personnel to take it any further than he did this year but I was anticipating next year for once. I'm willing to see what happens but since defense has always been the most important aspect to me, this better work, or I may be joining the "negative" side. This isn't something that he needs "time" to achieve. We were on our way to achieving for once and now another upheaval. I don't want Shanny repeats. Except for guard, QB and WR McD's oversee of the defense needs to be his primary focus.
gunns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:07 PM   #22
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
That defense had 2 players who had been to the pro bowl prior to Nolan taking over: Ray Lewis and Peter Boulware. That is it, 2.

So you are saying that it is not impressive at all how he took a defense with 2 pro bowlers to become a top 5 unit in the league?

The defense that Marvin Lewis had featured guys like Tony Siragusa and Sam Adams and Michael Mcrary, all of whom were gone when Nolan took over.

Nolan took over a Giants defense that finished 3rd worst in the league in points and tranformed it into the best unit in his first year and a top 10 unit in 3 of his 4 years there. Not a letdown.

Nolan took the Ravens to top 10 in scoring defense in 3 of 4 years there. Not a letdown.

Nolan may not be a good head coach but the defense in San Fransisco improved while he was there and the talent on the unit improved a lot while he was there. Considering he took over the worst unit in the league and acquired such talent as Willis, Franklin, Haralson, Goldson, Lewis, Sopoaga, Smith, Lawson, Brooks. That unit is now one of the best with the players he acquired, I wouldn't call that a defensive let down.
What information are you using. Nolan was the DC for 3 years in NY and 3 years in Baltimore, not 4. In NY his defenses got progressively worse. In Balt. His di have very good defenses 2 out of 3 years, of course Baltimore has had a top ten defense 10 seasons out of their 14 year existence. As a matter of fact it has only ranked lower than 6th one time in the last 11 years...one of Nolan's years.

As for SF, he wasn't coordinator, but he did not turn that franchise around either. He was like 2-7 when he was fired. Either way, that has little bearing on his defenses, unless you feel he had a great deal of control over the SF defense. If he did it's more indictment than anything.

I liked Nolan, I really did, but people are making him out to be something he really isn't.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:08 PM   #23
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,280

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:11 PM   #24
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2KBack View Post
What information are you using. Nolan was the DC for 3 years in NY and 3 years in Baltimore, not 4. In NY his defenses got progressively worse. In Balt. His di have very good defenses 2 out of 3 years, of course Baltimore has had a top ten defense 10 seasons out of their 14 year existence. As a matter of fact it has only ranked lower than 6th one time in the last 11 years...one of Nolan's years.

As for SF, he wasn't coordinator, but he did not turn that franchise around either. He was like 2-7 when he was fired. Either way, that has little bearing on his defenses, unless you feel he had a great deal of control over the SF defense. If he did it's more indictment than anything.

I liked Nolan, I really did, but people are making him out to be something he really isn't.
I think all but one of the starting D players on San Fran was picked or brought in why he was the HC of the team. If McD is going to get the credit for bringing in the players to that turned around our D shouldn't Nolan get the same at San Fran?
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:18 PM   #25
2KBack
Rumblin' Bumblin'
 
2KBack's Avatar
 
Cake is delicious

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wash DC
Posts: 7,834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
I think all but one of the starting D players on San Fran was picked or brought in why he was the HC of the team. If McD is going to get the credit for bringing in the players to that turned around our D shouldn't Nolan get the same at San Fran?
Sure he does. He gets credit for picking up talent, he just didn't put them to use very well.
2KBack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:34 AM.


Denver Broncos