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Old 01-04-2010, 08:14 AM   #1
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saw some anonymous guy posting his thoughts on denverpost.com, and although there's no way to know what's true and what's not, he did bring up some interesting points not really being discussed here. i'll quote him to see what the rest of the OM thinks.

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The issues in Denver go way beyond what you are seeing on the surface. McDaniels was a hire based on finances only. It certainly has turned out that he is obviously not ready to be a head coach at the NFL level, as I pointed out many reasons why in my last post. What looms next year is the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement. If you wonder why there were so many teams that hired unproven, young coaches this past season, wonder no more! A good friend of mine was fired from the Raiders' coaching staff this past season and we discussed all the intricacies associated with the CBA. Many NFL owners did not want to sign big time coaches to big time contracts just prior to the CBA. This includes assistants who had been in the league for several years. The CBA could have so many structural changes that will dictate future contracts and free agency for players that many of the owners, particularly one's feeling more of a financial strain, simply didn't want to get tied down with big money deals before negotiations.

Now I'll really help you make sense of this mess in Denver. Do you really want to know why Cutler was traded? Yes, McDaniels put the paper in the fireplace to start the fire based upon an over blown ego but Bowlen took this as an opportunity to dump a big time player with a big contract and an even bigger contract in the future. After all, it was Bowlen who told McDaniels to trade him. Wonder why Marshall's contract wasn't re-negotiated? Same reason. Remember, Bowlen is stuck with paying off Shanahan's contract which has created a bit of a financial strain on him in this economy, which has been stated. However, Bowlen probably figured that Shanahan would get another contract after being fired which would negate the rest of Bowlen's contract with him. Shanahan stuck it to Bowlen by sitting out a year. There are reasons why they don't talk anymore and probably won't ever again.

So, replace him with a kid head coach that wouldn't require a big time contract and then just ride it out, good or bad, until the CBA. At this point it's about money for Mr. Bowlen and not about winning. Successful business men are that for a reason because when it comes down to it, they have become successful based on financial decisions that are in THEIR best interests.

Whether McDaniels became successful or not had nothing to do with it. If he failed, which he has and will, he'll get fired after next season, just before the CBA. Remember, in the end, the NFL is a business and a big one at that! Fans will always play second fiddle to finances.
and a little later on the same thread...

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First and foremost I'm a fan as I grew up next door to a former Broncos coach from a young age. However, having coached at the professional and collegiate levels as well as knowing several coaches currently in the NFL I'd like to clear up the often quoted misconception that it took 6 games for other teams to get a bead on what the Broncos were doing. Offenses and defenses in the NFL are recycled over and over and over. Some coaches put a few different spins on things and some have different terminology. The bottom line though is that a 3-4 defense is a 3-4, a zone blocking scheme is a zone blocking scheme, and and an unbalanced line is an unbalanced line! The point that I'm making is that coaches in the NFL have seen the same things thousands of times. It doesn't take NFL coaches 6 games to figure out what another professional team is doing! If it took that long they would all still be coaching in high school. When a team goes 6-0 to start a season then mysteriously falls apart, with injuries not being a factor, this almost always points to internal issues. McDaniels probably lost the team much earlier than everyone thinks. Once you lose even a portion of a team you are done...unless you clean house and bring in players that aren't on the other side of the line. That's exactly what McDaniels is attempting to do. However, a bad coach will eventually lose those players as well. McDaniels is coaching with far too much ego and has probably even lost some of his staff members. When you see a professional head coach screaming at one of his assistants on the sidelines that is not a good thing. The repercussions are tremendous. I absolutely hated coaching with guys who were like that and I don't know any good coach who does. This is all aside from the fact that there are more personel moves and coaching changes for pure financial reasons than anyone would ever know about. So, to respond, I don't say things I don't know.
the 2 things i find most interesting are:

1) that Shanny sat out a year to spite Bowlen and that they are no longer friends. i can completely see Shanny doing that.

2) that the argument about the league needing 6 games to figure out the new Broncos was silly and that teams starting 6-0 and finishing 8-8 are a clear sign of internal dissension. i honestly buy this argument more than the one that says the league needed 6 games to figure us out. McD's stubborn behavior during the slide sure seems to me to be consistent with a coach trying to impose his will on his team.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:31 AM   #2
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Lost all credibility when he said injuries weren't a factor.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:38 AM   #3
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Lost all credibility when he said injuries weren't a factor.
They weren't. Team's have succeeded with far worse injuries. Denver has performed far better on offense with far worse injuries. Any attempt to defend McD based on injuries when it was clear week after week he was being out-coached is just ludicrous.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:39 AM   #4
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Lost all credibility when he said injuries weren't a factor.
yea....i kinda find it hard to believe that he was talking to a Raiders coach who was fired and thought it was all about finances...ummm, that whole staff was let go because they BLEW. Also, he is a coach, he knows a Raiders coach and he lived next to a former Denver coach? wow...this guy is way too in the know to not understand how injuries affected this team.

i do agree that there is a schism in the locker room and i think this offseason we will be getting a lot more character guys which will make this board explode..
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Lost all credibility when he said injuries weren't a factor.
And this:
"Whether McDaniels became successful or not had nothing to do with it. If he failed, which he has and will, he'll get fired after next season"
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:41 AM   #6
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so youll take this guys word over mediators that 6 game is the turning point as far as schematic advantage? gotcha. youre dumb.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:43 AM   #7
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mcdaniels is not getting the best out of his players. probably not out of the assistants.

bad news when half your troops would not go to war with you. or maybe even frag you.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:48 AM   #8
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They weren't. Team's have succeeded with far worse injuries. Denver has performed far better on offense with far worse injuries. Any attempt to defend McD based on injuries when it was clear week after week he was being out-coached is just ludicrous.
This is not some strange concept I'm coming up with here. It's not rocket science. Look at the history of the league. The teams that remain healthy make the playoffs and the SB.

Injuries ARE a factor.

Sure, teams can succeed and win some games with injuries. Sure, teams have had far worse injuries than the Broncos had this year. Nobody is denying that. All we're saying is that injuries affected this team this year.

Or are you saying that Hamilton didn't hurt us yesterday? or that Polumbus is as good as Harris? or that Simms is as good as Orton?
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:50 AM   #9
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Interesting, but I have a hard time believing that McD "lost the locker room" after the 6-0 start. So there was more to the decline than internal problems. And while I think money is certainly a factor the Broncos spent plenty in FA last year, and I think when Shanahan was fired Bowlen knew there was a high probability he wouldn't coach this year. Shanahan's motives had nothing to do with screwing Bowlen.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt View Post
saw some anonymous guy posting his thoughts on denverpost.com, and although there's no way to know what's true and what's not, he did bring up some interesting points not really being discussed here. i'll quote him to see what the rest of the OM thinks.



and a little later on the same thread...



the 2 things i find most interesting are:

1) that Shanny sat out a year to spite Bowlen and that they are no longer friends. i can completely see Shanny doing that.

2) that the argument about the league needing 6 games to figure out the new Broncos was silly and that teams starting 6-0 and finishing 8-8 are a clear sign of internal dissension. i honestly buy this argument more than the one that says the league needed 6 games to figure us out. McD's stubborn behavior during the slide sure seems to me to be consistent with a coach trying to impose his will on his team.
I can agree with this
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:51 AM   #11
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so youll take this guys word over mediators that 6 game is the turning point as far as schematic advantage? gotcha. youre dumb.
You expect different from these guys? They take Hosina Anderson's word on what's going on.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:53 AM   #12
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so youll take this guys word over mediators that 6 game is the turning point as far as schematic advantage? gotcha. youre dumb.
1. It is NOT the first 6 games, its the first four. The reason being there is not enough plays on film from the last few years to compare the current scheme with the former scheme and find the differences. The whole 6 game thing is simply made up because DEN went 6-0.....

2. The next big step is after all the bye weeks when coaches have basically rolled out all their arsenal of tricks and tweaks. That occurs around weeks 10-11.

So, that basically means there are 3 phases. Weeks 1-4, Games 4-10, and the final 6 games.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:55 AM   #13
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You expect different from these guys? They take Hosina Anderson's word on what's going on.
strawman.

nobody is taking this guy's word for anything. just an interesting new take on things to discuss... or are we only supposed to debate the following here now:

1) cutler sucks, orton is great
2) orton sucks, cutler is great
3) McD sucks, shanny is great
4) shanny sucks, McD is great
5) hillis sucks, moreno is great
6) moreno sucks, hillis is great
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:58 AM   #14
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1. It is NOT the first 6 games, its the first four. The reason being there is not enough plays on film from the last few years to compare the current scheme with the former scheme and find the differences. The whole 6 game thing is simply made up because DEN went 6-0.....

2. The next big step is after all the bye weeks when coaches have basically rolled out all their arsenal of tricks and tweaks. That occurs around weeks 10-11.

So, that basically means there are 3 phases. Weeks 1-4, Games 4-10, and the final 6 games.
weeks 1-4: 4-0
weeks 5-11: 3-3
weeks 12-17: 1-5

so what does that imply?

smoke & mirrors, followed by the true talent of this team, followed by .... (what)? what is behind the 1-5 slide? dissension? injuries? bad luck? something else?
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:07 AM   #15
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smoke & mirrors, followed by the true talent of this team, followed by .... (what)? what is behind the 1-5 slide? dissension? injuries? bad luck? something else?
Facing the two teams (Indy and Philly) that could very well end up in the SB or at least were playing the best in their respective conferences at the time we played them didn't help.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:10 AM   #16
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Interesting read, but I don't think Cutler fiasco was about money at least on Jayby's end.

Now a fair deal of the Marshall situation is ALL about money.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:11 AM   #17
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Someone actually reads the posters comments on Denverpost.com Who knew

More importantly why

That poster is an idiot if he thinks money came into the coaching change. Which new HC got more $$$ than McDaniels this year
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:11 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by WhoIsJohnGalt View Post
weeks 1-4: 4-0
weeks 5-11: 3-3
weeks 12-17: 1-5

so what does that imply?

smoke & mirrors, followed by the true talent of this team, followed by .... (what)? what is behind the 1-5 slide? dissension? injuries? bad luck? something else?
don't forget sh*tty playcalling
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:14 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
This is not some strange concept I'm coming up with here. It's not rocket science. Look at the history of the league. The teams that remain healthy make the playoffs and the SB.

Injuries ARE a factor.

Sure, teams can succeed and win some games with injuries. Sure, teams have had far worse injuries than the Broncos had this year. Nobody is denying that. All we're saying is that injuries affected this team this year.

Or are you saying that Hamilton didn't hurt us yesterday? or that Polumbus is as good as Harris? or that Simms is as good as Orton?
Injuries weren't a factor in changing 6-0 to a losing streak. We even had a bye week after week 6 so even minor injuries would heal prior to the losing beginning.

Compared to most other years and most other teams we have been remarkably healthy this year so injuries is no excuse for anything, if you expect a football team to go through a season 100% healthy you need a different sport because that will never happen. Last year we put more runningbacks on IR than we have put players on there all year this year.

Hamilton was the starter from the beginning of the year, so how does that have anything to do with injuries?

Did Simms suddenly play in 8 games? he didn't even play 4 quarters all year.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:15 AM   #20
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The poster is an idiot if he thinks its Shanny's contract that's handcuffing bowlen.

Though i have long believed that Bowlen has no money and his willingness to get rid of cutler was partly financial.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:19 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie mac View Post
Someone actually reads the posters comments on Denverpost.com Who knew

More importantly why

That poster is an idiot if he thinks money came into the coaching change. Which new HC got more $$$ than McDaniels this year
McD is getting $2M per year.
Spagnulo is getting $2.75M per year in St Louis.
Schwartz is getting $2.75M per year in Detroit.
Caldwell's contract terms are private.

it doesn't appear that McD is getting more than the others...

Last edited by Gort; 01-04-2010 at 09:28 AM..
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:21 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
Facing the two teams (Indy and Philly) that could very well end up in the SB or at least were playing the best in their respective conferences at the time we played them didn't help.
That is brutal...but I don't think anyone has an issue with Denver losing those games. It's the losses at home to very poor Oakland and KC teams that rounds out that 1-5 slide.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:23 AM   #23
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Injuries weren't a factor in changing 6-0 to a losing streak. We even had a bye week after week 6 so even minor injuries would heal prior to the losing beginning.
Sorry. But injuries are always a factor.

Orton's injury in the Skins game contributed DIRECTLY to that loss. This is not really debatable. Unless you think the 0 points and turnovers by Simms in the 2nd half of that game are the same as 17 pts by the offense in the first half under Orton.

And how is going from Harris to Polumbus a lateral move? It's not even close.

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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Compared to most other years and most other teams we have been remarkably healthy this year so injuries is no excuse for anything, if you expect a football team to go through a season 100% healthy you need a different sport because that will never happen. Last year we put more runningbacks on IR than we have put players on there all year this year.
.
Stop comparing years here. That is a completely different argument. What we are arguing here is solely a 2009 issue. Injuries don't make you a better or even the same team. Period. There's a reason these guys are backups.

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Hamilton was the starter from the beginning of the year, so how does that have anything to do with injuries?.
He had to come back in at left guard because of injuries. He was the starter during week one, but he was not the best player at the position by the end of the year. Yet we had to put him back in there because of injuries to the guys ahead of him.

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Did Simms suddenly play in 8 games? he didn't even play 4 quarters all year.
He DIRECTLY affected the games he appeared in (Washington and SD). This is not debatable.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:24 AM   #24
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Injuries weren't a factor in changing 6-0 to a losing streak.
I agree that injuries weren't remotely the major factor, but the Ryan Harris injury did create big problems for the O-line because of the lack of quality depth.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:25 AM   #25
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McD is getting $2M per year

do you have stats to support the idea that he's paid more than other 1st time head coaches?
It really doesn't matter. Bowlen knew there was a high probability he was on the hook for at least another year of Shanahan's salary. If money were that huge of a concern he would have kept him around for another year.
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