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Old 12-29-2009, 07:17 AM   #1
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One thing that struck me about the game last night, especially towards the end, was the play calling. Despite Cutlers league leading interceptions, between Lovie and Turner, the Bears aren't afraid to throw the ball deep in pretty much any situation (except at the end of the half where I think they wisely took a knee).

I think a big part of our problem stems from the fact that we're too effing predictable. I can't think of really any plays this season where I'm like wow that was a great play call.

Has our offensive line really regressed so much with the loss of Ryan Harris and a different (apparently harder) schedule? Has Eddie Royal really hit a sophomore slump and fallen off the map due to his inability to get open?

Is Orton even allowed to call an audible and take a shot down field if the D gives him something that looks like he can exploit? It seems to me that maybe much of our offensive woes can be attributed to lack of calling plays that are confusing or fooling anybody. Whatever it is, when I see other teams having the balls to go deep when it looks like it should be a run coming at you, it keeps defenses on their heels knowing you're not afraid to take a shot at them. I think McD and CO could learn a little bit from that game last night and take it with them.... start opening up our damn team and taking some chances, our D has shown we have the luxury of not being so ****ing cautious.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:20 AM   #2
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You are preaching to the choir brother.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:24 AM   #3
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I don't know that swing pass to Clady was pure Genius
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:30 AM   #4
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It's frustrating to see Orton continue to throw the ball to receivers who are either within a few yards of the line of scrimmage, or behind the line of scrimmage. It was great to see Marshall break that record, but lets be real, he caught a lot of quick slants and hitches. A good amount of his yards came from him dancing around defenders for extra yards.

Offenses have to be able to attack down field. That doesn't mean start throwing bombs, even though a few deep passes a game are a good thing because it backs off the defense. But teams have to be able to attack in the 10 to 20 yard range. The deep out. The deep curl. Crossing patterns down field. Those plays get chunks of yards, and backs the defense off, opening up the shorter passes and taking defenders out of the box for the running game.

The Broncos play calling just sucks. It looks like McD doesn't trust Orton because McD didn't call a bunch of dump off passes with the Pats. They did throw short, especially to Welker, but they threw the ball down field a lot. The play calling with the Broncos looks nothing like it did for the Pats.

I don't get why McD won't call plays that go down fiend. Orton has a strong enough arm to hit those patterns. I'm wondering if Orton just isn't good enough to hit those plays. The one game that I really thought that the Broncos were attacking down field, in the 10 to 20 yard range, was the Steelers game. Their first drive Orton was slinging the ball all over the place. They moved the ball well that drive. It stalled at the end, leading to a FG, but I was thinking that it was a nice drive. Well, after that, Orton went on to throw three interceptions and the Broncos O didn't score the rest of the game. So maybe Orton just isn't good enough.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:39 AM   #5
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We started to go Vertical in the Washington game as I recall until Orton got dinged. To be fair though, the few times Orton has thrown it up, our WR's haven't exactly fought for the ball either. Guess they don't get enough practice.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason in McLA View Post
It's frustrating to see Orton continue to throw the ball to receivers who are either within a few yards of the line of scrimmage, or behind the line of scrimmage. It was great to see Marshall break that record, but lets be real, he caught a lot of quick slants and hitches. A good amount of his yards came from him dancing around defenders for extra yards.

Offenses have to be able to attack down field. That doesn't mean start throwing bombs, even though a few deep passes a game are a good thing because it backs off the defense. But teams have to be able to attack in the 10 to 20 yard range. The deep out. The deep curl. Crossing patterns down field. Those plays get chunks of yards, and backs the defense off, opening up the shorter passes and taking defenders out of the box for the running game.

The Broncos play calling just sucks. It looks like McD doesn't trust Orton because McD didn't call a bunch of dump off passes with the Pats. They did throw short, especially to Welker, but they threw the ball down field a lot. The play calling with the Broncos looks nothing like it did for the Pats.

I don't get why McD won't call plays that go down fiend. Orton has a strong enough arm to hit those patterns. I'm wondering if Orton just isn't good enough to hit those plays. The one game that I really thought that the Broncos were attacking down field, in the 10 to 20 yard range, was the Steelers game. Their first drive Orton was slinging the ball all over the place. They moved the ball well that drive. It stalled at the end, leading to a FG, but I was thinking that it was a nice drive. Well, after that, Orton went on to throw three interceptions and the Broncos O didn't score the rest of the game. So maybe Orton just isn't good enough.
I really think the preseason game where orton had the 3? picks while he was throwing it downfield led to MCD questioning his abilities. Going 6-0 running the short dump off stuff didn't help either. Because once teams figured it out, we were kinda stuck.
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Old 12-29-2009, 07:41 AM   #7
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I think while Orton's arm is strong enough, he is not all that good at leading a receiver. We first heard about this in training camp. They brought this up a couple of times. Well, we saw it repeatedly in the game. He cannot lead a receiver for squat. And I think his quick passes were a way to try and compensate. Less time to get to a receiver, less worry about leading the ball. This is a problem.

Several of his passes were just behind the reciever. When Shef tried to make a play on a pass like that (a bit low, and behind), it got poppd up and could have been picked. I couldn't believe people were blaming Shef for that.

Accuracy.. you either got it or you don't. It's not all that hard to throw a 3 yard bullet. Griese did the exact same thing. In fact he led the league in shortest average passes. I don't know if Orton is close to that, but if you didn't count the YAC yards that Marshall drums out, I bet he'd be close to the league leader in shortest pass average.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:47 AM   #8
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That pass Samuel picked off might've been one of the worst thrown balls in the history of the game.

I remember sitting in the stands saying, "WTF was that?"
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:52 AM   #9
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That pass Samuel picked off might've been one of the worst thrown balls in the history of the game.

I remember sitting in the stands saying, "WTF was that?"
An underthrown fade route is one of the worst balls in the history of the game? You're hard to please.
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Old 12-29-2009, 08:56 AM   #10
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An underthrown fade route is one of the worst balls in the history of the game? You're hard to please.
not to mention underthrowing when your reciever has an 8" height advantage isn't exactly abnormal
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:05 AM   #11
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This offense is designed to complete high percentage passes, and the sooner people come to that realization the better. To go vertical just to do so not only alters a proven philosophy, but is asking more of Orton than he's probably capable of. The system will take shots deep, but only if it's a high percentage play dictated by the defense (case in point, the deep ball to Marshall in the Philly game, which if it's not underthrown Marshall walks into the endzone).

The result of such a scheme is that you end up with a lot of 3rd and shorts. This isn't an inherent problem, but if you can't convert those, you're going to have major issues (case in point, the whole season).
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:39 AM   #12
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That pass Samuel picked off might've been one of the worst thrown balls in the history of the game.
Completely disagree. Samuel made a perfect play. I think the pass later in the game that Brown knocked down was a worse throw. If thrown deeper Marshall had a chance.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jason in McLA View Post
It's frustrating to see Orton continue to throw the ball to receivers who are either within a few yards of the line of scrimmage, or behind the line of scrimmage. It was great to see Marshall break that record, but lets be real, he caught a lot of quick slants and hitches. A good amount of his yards came from him dancing around defenders for extra yards.
you just described Jerry Rice's entire career.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:53 AM   #14
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I'm calling the fan police on this thread, and you're all having your bronco memberships revoked.
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Old 12-29-2009, 09:58 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr007 View Post
One thing that struck me about the game last night, especially towards the end, was the play calling. Despite Cutlers league leading interceptions, between Lovie and Turner, the Bears aren't afraid to throw the ball deep in pretty much any situation (except at the end of the half where I think they wisely took a knee).
I think a big part of our problem stems from the fact that we're too effing predictable. I can't think of really any plays this season where I'm like wow that was a great play call.

Has our offensive line really regressed so much with the loss of Ryan Harris and a different (apparently harder) schedule? Has Eddie Royal really hit a sophomore slump and fallen off the map due to his inability to get open?

Is Orton even allowed to call an audible and take a shot down field if the D gives him something that looks like he can exploit? It seems to me that maybe much of our offensive woes can be attributed to lack of calling plays that are confusing or fooling anybody. Whatever it is, when I see other teams having the balls to go deep when it looks like it should be a run coming at you, it keeps defenses on their heels knowing you're not afraid to take a shot at them. I think McD and CO could learn a little bit from that game last night and take it with them.... start opening up our damn team and taking some chances, our D has shown we have the luxury of not being so ****ing cautious.
Because, there is nothing to lose..That's the reason they played like that.
Coming to our team. i agree with you.
You can't win games by throws 2/3 yards every time and expect receiver to convert.

I think Mcd doesn't trust Orton. I hope we get a QB like Rogers, Flacco who can throw the ball deep accurately.
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:23 AM   #16
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That pass Samuel picked off might've been one of the worst thrown balls in the history of the game.

I remember sitting in the stands saying, "WTF was that?"
Exaggerate much?
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:26 AM   #17
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Completely disagree. Samuel made a perfect play. I think the pass later in the game that Brown knocked down was a worse throw. If thrown deeper Marshall had a chance.
On the Scheffler ball he made no attempt to go get it. He just ran down the sidelines and stuck his hands out as if the defender didn't exist. He then got lit up as he should for the terrible effort.

On the Marshall throw he should have gone up stronger and at the very least drawn a PI call. You can't expect the ball to be thrown perfectly. The great receivers go up and get it when they have to or play defense and knock the ball away. While neither throw was great Orton got no help from his receivers.
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Old 12-29-2009, 10:45 AM   #18
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I think Mcd doesn't trust Orton. I hope we get a QB like Rogers, Flacco who can throw the ball deep accurately.
I'm not sure what it is, but I agree we probably need to take a look at a new QB. I really like Orton it just appears that he doesn't have the physical tools that are required to take us to the next level.

That or McD is just being too cautious, I don't know...
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:23 PM   #19
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The overly conservative playcalling has been a disaster all season. We got away with it in a few of the first 6 games so unfortunately McD felt justified in continuing it.
Fact is he calls plays not to lose, and that isn't how you win games.
If he had let the offense loose we have AT LEAST two more wins. Here's to hoping he acknowledges his mistakes and plays it differently next season.

This is a gutsy team that CAN beat anyone, but they've been handcuffed FAR too often. Bad coaching and (I hate to say it..but) bad officiating have just KILLED us the last few weeks and cost us our playoff spot. VERY depressing.
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Old 12-29-2009, 05:05 PM   #20
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The overly conservative playcalling has been a disaster all season. We got away with it in a few of the first 6 games so unfortunately McD felt justified in continuing it.
Fact is he calls plays not to lose, and that isn't how you win games.
If he had let the offense loose we have AT LEAST two more wins. Here's to hoping he acknowledges his mistakes and plays it differently next season.

This is a gutsy team that CAN beat anyone, but they've been handcuffed FAR too often. Bad coaching and (I hate to say it..but) bad officiating have just KILLED us the last few weeks and cost us our playoff spot. VERY depressing.
I agree with your post. McD seems to be the opposite of what Shanahan was in terms of playcalling. I think Shanny had a pedal to the metal mentality and would take risks more often than not for his team. McD seemed ultra conservative outside of that whacked play to Clady. The last series we had vs. Philly when we had 4th and two around mid field or close to, I think Shanahan would of recognized we had the MO rught then and went for it. Instead McGenius sends out McBerger and goes shank city for 15 total yards. The MO was suddenly shifted and the rest history. I think Orton is a tough guy , but I dont think his ceiling is much higher. I'd like to see what Bradstater could do, but I've given up on wishing things....
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Old 12-29-2009, 05:55 PM   #21
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I agree with your post. McD seems to be the opposite of what Shanahan was in terms of playcalling. I think Shanny had a pedal to the metal mentality and would take risks more often than not for his team. McD seemed ultra conservative outside of that whacked play to Clady. The last series we had vs. Philly when we had 4th and two around mid field or close to, I think Shanahan would of recognized we had the MO rught then and went for it. Instead McGenius sends out McBerger and goes shank city for 15 total yards. The MO was suddenly shifted and the rest history. I think Orton is a tough guy , but I dont think his ceiling is much higher. I'd like to see what Bradstater could do, but I've given up on wishing things....
The momentum was obviously shifted on the McNabb 27 yard run on 3rd and 25 after we sacked them and got them to commit a penalty, AFTER the punt, in fact after we scored a field goal. I have no idea where you came up with the idea that a punt 2 possessions earlier had any major impact on our momentum. Especially when they started inside the 20, went 3-and-out and we drove it down the field and tied the game, ending our streak of 17 unanswered points.

In fact, given your comment, I have to wonder if you even watched the game.

Last edited by misturanderson; 12-29-2009 at 06:08 PM..
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