If you trust this administration, speak up

[Bob]

Explain why? Until the R’s in office (if they ever get it) demonstrate they are actual believers in limited fed powers, and the Constitution – the “right” and the “left” are in the exact same sinking ship – although most wont believe it until it is way too late. Is it possible to boil this down to the basics, so that most sane folks on both political “sides” will understand that the Fed government (Right and Left elites) are attempting to create more serfs, and eliminate the ability for the serfs to do anything to ever change that.

1. Government in America, in her economic choices, inefficiency, dishonesty and absolute lust for more power has been headed the wrong direction for quite a few years. If true, why would the left or right approve of any expansion of their powers over us? (its because you have been conditioned to think the real threat is the average left or right citizen
2. The federal government fought very hard to get Healthcare changes, (which eventually will = only one public option.) Obama himself stated that was the end game. Given every viable poll the people don’t want it, and are very opposed to it. The people like what they have, but the government doesnt like that you have this choice. It is surprising why more of those left of center have not considered that there might be some ulterior motive – besides "just helping out" the little guy.
3. Is it possible that the legislative branch of government is unaware of the direction they have headed in giving more power to the executive branch, and shifting US autonomy to various global forms of governance, and as a result they are becoming more and more irrelevant?
4. Or, have they already decided that regardless of the voting public, they can find various jobs in the new, real seats of power? Power that cannot be interrupted by irritating, uneducated, rude or fickle masses?
5. If the Dems are convinced they will loose various elections in 2010 (and they will in very large numbers.) They will over the next few months speed up the process of doing everything they can to create alternative seats of power, destroying the Liberties of the right and left, and using the growing crisis as justification. "we dont want to take away your guns, GM, healthcare, banks, but we had to."
6. After the typical “you’re a nut” replies, try using facts, and forget the right left dynamic and backup why the proceeding arguments are not even a possibility, especially considering the past actions of this and the previous administration.

[Bronx33]

[peacepipe]

This is why I don't vote rep: repubilcans/conservatives don't believe in a government that works. Voting repubilcans/conservatives is like voting for a convicted bank robber to be your bank manager. You can't trust somebody to run something when they are inherently against it.

[sisterhellfyre]

Originally Posted by Bob

Explain why?

Meh. After the circus of the last few months, I'm thoroughly disgusted with the Republocrats and the Demoblicans. I'm seriously considering Green party candidates next time around. I don't agree with them on the extreme environmentalism and the global warming foofarah, but I suspect with the way "Climategate" is going, that may not be as much of an issue by the time the next Presidential cycle comes around.

As Rohirrim said not too long back, I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. That only perpetuates the system that presents us with evils to choose from. If I only disagree with the Greens on one issue, that's a whole lot better than either the Rs or Ds.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I trust the present administration WAY more than the last one.

Bush and his rubber stamp GOP Congress set the bar so high (or low, as the case may be) when it came to incompetence, corruption and unapologetic criminality that I can't imagine how any other administration could ever come close.

[Rohirrim]

I believe the Reagan administration ushered in the downfall of the system, and we are now dealing with the wreckage. Bush only exacerbated the destruction already in process. He didn't initiate it. His Reaganite policy of creating war while believing that debt was immaterial did the trick. Cheney was an adoring devotee in the Reagan cult of the imperial presidency and giving corporations the keys to the kingdom. Clinton didn't help by trying to be Republican Lite and allowing the legislation that let the corporatist monster out of its cage. The basic flaw is believing that political systems require checks and balances while economic systems require none. Pure stupidity. Political power and economic power are interchangeable, as is all too clear in the way Washington operates now. Economic power buys political power. Obama came to the table with a losing hand. IMO, he should be a lot more TR and a little less "The Pragmatic Incrementalist." We'll see.

Oh, and before the rightards go all whackitude, Obama's expansion of the debt to bail out Wall Street was a calculated risk to forestall an economic depression, not to go adventuring at war or creating a gravy train for his cronies, which is what Bush did. Obama's concept was to stop a disaster and then, when the economy gets back on its feet, to pay down the debt. We'll see if it works. Bush's policy was flush all our wealth down the toilet and then let somebody else clean it up. The quintessential prodigal. Pretty much his lifelong philosophy.

[cutthemdown]

Wasn't TARP started under BUSH? I know a lot of repubs went against him on that but didn't Bush get the bank bailout going? not Obama? Maybe I just don't remember right?

I thought for Obama he had

1- The stimulus package
2- Cash for Clunker
3- couple spending budget bills for war etc and to run govt

[cutthemdown]

Obama said stimulus would create jobs and it hasn't really so I'm not sure what you people think he did.

Saving the banks was Bush and his treas sec, and bernake right? I'm not saying I know for sure I haven't really been following politics since I realized that there is only one party.

[cutthemdown]

Oh and that one party? we are never invited. But we get to pitch in to pay for it.

I hope Obama enjoys his 4000 dollar a night island retreat for xmas, he deserves a break.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Obama said stimulus would create jobs and it hasn't really so I'm not sure what you people think he did.

Saving the banks was Bush and his treas sec, and bernake right? I'm not saying I know for sure I haven't really been following politics since I realized that there is only one party.

The only portion of the Stimulus that has gone into affect are the tax cuts which explains in part why it hasn't created alot of jobs as of yet,but it has saved alot jobs be it teachers,fireman,cops etc. Remember only a 1/4 of this this stimulus bill has been used. As the rest of it goes through we will see an uptick in hiring. mostly in 2010. there is no bill that could've fixed this over night.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

The only portion of the Stimulus that has gone into affect are the tax cuts which explains in part why it hasn't created alot of jobs as of yet,but it has saved alot jobs be it teachers,fireman,cops etc. Remember only a 1/4 of this this stimulus bill has been used. As the rest of it goes through we will see an uptick in hiring. mostly in 2010. there is no bill that could've fixed this over night.

Half of the denver police dept got laid off..

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

This is why I don't vote rep: repubilcans/conservatives don't believe in a government that works. Voting repubilcans/conservatives is like voting for a convicted bank robber to be your bank manager. You can't trust somebody to run something when they are inherently against it.

You just can't trust those Republicans to run a Socialist State, or did you mean government in general? And does this blanket statement cover all Republicans going back to Abraham Lincoln?

[Requiem]

I've yet to turn 23, but after being in the long line of family members who have either ran for public office, held it or worked for the government in some sort of capacity -- having an inherent trust of any Administration, any institution or bureaucracy is hard to come by. I realize the role of governments and have a strong set of beliefs and values as to which I think they should uphold, but time after time, year after year, they manage to continuously make things worse.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Arkie

You just can't trust those Republicans to run a Socialist State, or did you mean government in general? And does this blanket statement cover all Republicans going back to Abraham Lincoln?

I know a functional government means socialism to republicans. Considering republicans track record be it bush jrs. recession & more,bush sr's.recession, reagons voodoo math(as decribed by Bush sr.), to Nixons "I am not a crook", to Hoovers do nothing while the country goes into depression leadership. You guys have cornered the market on how not to run a government. Lincoln may be the only republican president worth remembering.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

The only portion of the Stimulus that has gone into affect are the tax cuts which explains in part why it hasn't created alot of jobs as of yet,but it has saved alot jobs be it teachers,fireman,cops etc. Remember only a 1/4 of this this stimulus bill has been used. As the rest of it goes through we will see an uptick in hiring. mostly in 2010. there is no bill that could've fixed this over night.

Then why are they talking a new stimulus? Would not it be smarter to spend the first one first?

Also I agree it wasn't a stimulus package, it was a give money to states to pay unemployment, teachers, cops, firefighters and a ton of other city and govt employees.

So it wasn't a stimulus as much as a state and local govt, and unemployment bailout.

[cutthemdown]

Fireman are so overpaid its not even funny. Cops as well.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Then why are they talking a new stimulus? Would not it be smarter to spend the first one first?

Also I agree it wasn't a stimulus package, it was a give money to states to pay unemployment, teachers, cops, firefighters and a ton of other city and govt employees.

So it wasn't a stimulus as much as a state and local govt, and unemployment bailout.

I never said it wasn't a stimulus package, actually your correct, it isn't a stimulus bill yet due to fact that tax cuts do nothing to stimulate the economy, tax cuts were added to the bill to please reps even though only a couple reps voted for it.

The new stimulus that you are referring to,the money for that is comming out of the unspent bank bailout(as far I know).

Funny, everything to you seems to be a bailout. States getting money from the fed is a practice as old as this country. If your willing you can petition your state to not take anymore federal dollars.

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Fireman are so overpaid its not even funny. Cops as well.

People who risk their lives to save your sorry ass are not overpaid.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Fireman are so overpaid its not even funny. Cops as well.

What a pathetic statement. Why not tell that to the families who have lost husband,wife,son,daughter or loved one in the line of duty. Everyone wants to complain about cops & fireman until the day they need one.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I believe the Reagan administration ushered in the downfall of the system, and we are now dealing with the wreckage. Bush only exacerbated the destruction already in process. He didn't initiate it. His Reaganite policy of creating war while believing that debt was immaterial did the trick. Cheney was an adoring devotee in the Reagan cult of the imperial presidency and giving corporations the keys to the kingdom. Clinton didn't help by trying to be Republican Lite and allowing the legislation that let the corporatist monster out of its cage. The basic flaw is believing that political systems require checks and balances while economic systems require none. Pure stupidity. Political power and economic power are interchangeable, as is all too clear in the way Washington operates now. Economic power buys political power. Obama came to the table with a losing hand. IMO, he should be a lot more TR and a little less "The Pragmatic Incrementalist." We'll see.

Oh, and before the rightards go all whackitude, Obama's expansion of the debt to bail out Wall Street was a calculated risk to forestall an economic depression, not to go adventuring at war or creating a gravy train for his cronies, which is what Bush did. Obama's concept was to stop a disaster and then, when the economy gets back on its feet, to pay down the debt. We'll see if it works. Bush's policy was flush all our wealth down the toilet and then let somebody else clean it up. The quintessential prodigal. Pretty much his lifelong philosophy.

Let me first state (as I have over and over) that I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I'm a diehard Independent because I've lived long enough to see how both parties are fundamentally flawed, yet feed off each other to protect their power base.

That being said, I've never seen a more corrupt administration the Obama's. Forget about GWB. He was a moron who got shell shocked by 911. GWB was simply the wrong man at the wrong time, and you have to blame the idiot GOP for putting this guy in office (which shows you how dumb they are).

As for Obama, he said he was going to work with both parties and be transparent. He has done neither. In fact, he has polarized the Dems and the Repubs to such a degree, that the Dems are now buying each other off in order to pass a fundamentally flawed healthcare bill. In other words, the dems are so corrupt, that they have to buy votes from each other and from the Obama administration. If the Dems are not buying each other off, they are leaving the party like rats leaving a sinking ship. It's really unprecedented. This is a direct reflection of the current administration and it's 2000 page bill that was thrown at congress at the 11th hour, and this administration's current health care bill which is being written behind closed doors, LOADED WITH PORK and payoffs, and it is being rammed down the throats of an American publich that DOES NOT WANT IT.

I don't know how you can be more corrupt than that. Unfortunately, it's Chicago style politics and it reflects poorly on Obama. Very poorly.

[peacepipe]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

Let me first state (as I have over and over) that I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I'm a diehard Independent because I've lived long enough to see how both parties are fundamentally flawed, yet feed off each other to protect their power base.

That being said, I've never seen a more corrupt administration the Obama's. Forget about GWB. He was a moron who got shell shocked by 911. GWB was simply the wrong man at the wrong time, and you have to blame the idiot GOP for putting this guy in office (which shows you how dumb they are).

As for Obama, he said he was going to work with both parties and be transparent. He has done neither. In fact, he has polarized the Dems and the Repubs to such a degree, that the Dems are now buying each other off in order to pass a fundamentally flawed healthcare bill. In other words, the dems are so corrupt, that they have to buy votes from each other and from the Obama administration. If the Dems are not buying each other off, they are leaving the party like rats leaving a sinking ship. It's really unprecedented. This is a direct reflection of the current administration and it's 2000 page bill that was thrown at congress at the 11th hour, and this administration's current health care bill which is being written behind closed doors, LOADED WITH PORK and payoffs, and it is being rammed down the throats of an American publich that DOES NOT WANT IT.

I don't know how you can be more corrupt than that. Unfortunately, it's Chicago style politics and it reflects poorly on Obama. Very poorly.

Hogwash,for someone who claims to be independent you lack independent thought. If he didn't care about bipartanship this bill would've been passed months ago. From the moment obama got elected to when he had a meeting with reps when reps stated before they even met that they would vote against the stimulus. bipartinsenship is a 2 way street, you can't blame obama,when reps are refuseing to negotiate on any bill. Reps chose to oppose anything Obama pushes to simply score political points with fringe right-wing of there party.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

Hogwash,for someone who claims to be independent you lack independent thought. If he didn't care about bipartanship this bill would've been passed months ago. From the moment obama got elected to when he had a meeting with reps when reps stated before they even met that they would vote against the stimulus. bipartinsenship is a 2 way street, you can't blame obama,when reps are refuseing to negotiate on any bill. Reps chose to oppose anything Obama pushes to simply score political points with fringe right-wing of there party.

Who wrote the stimulus bill? If you can answer that, I'll give you some credit. But you can't because you don't know who wrote it.

That's the type of crap I'm talking about. That's unadulterated BS.

Sure the Repubs fought it, they didn't know what was in it. 2000 pages of very complicated language and congress was asked to pass the bill in less than 24 hours!!!

Your kidding, right?

That's not working with congress. That is not working with Republicans and it's not even working with your own constituency.

Sorry. It's BS.

PS. I just did a search on google of who wrote the bill and all I found was this: Pelosi, congress and lobbysts wrote the bill.

Lobbyists wrote the bill? Really?

And Pelosi had the time to write that monstrosity of a bill? When?

And "congress" wrote it? Which congressman? Which congress woman?

Can this be true?:

http://romanticpoet.wordpress.com/20...needs-to-know/

Is the Apollo Alliance writing legislation? Are you kidding me?

[Tombstone RJ]

I am an Independent and I am a proud American. But, I have never been so ashamed of a presidential administration and congress.

It's scary and it's disturbing how much apathy there is from John Q. Public on what the federal government is doing.

And, if you do protest, the mainstream media paints you as at best, emotionally unstable and at worst, an enemy of the state.

Marching in the street against the Bush administration is ok, but marching in the street against the Obama administration is considered dangerous by the media. Why?

I thought the liberals preached that showing dissent is the best form of patriotism. So, if people show dissent against Obama and what he's doing (and congress) why is this all of a sudden bad?

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Fedaykin

People who risk their lives to save your sorry ass are not overpaid.

Lol I know several guys doing these jobs and they don't do it because they want to save me. The guys who go out and fish die at a higher rate but whatever.

being a cop not even that dangerous. Now being a cab driver, that's dangerous.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by peacepipe

What a pathetic statement. Why not tell that to the families who have lost husband,wife,son,daughter or loved one in the line of duty. Everyone wants to complain about cops & fireman until the day they need one.

Meh military guys give more and lose life at a way higher rate. The civilian guys got it made. They rack up overtime and make 80 grand a yr. It doesn't matter why someone dies. If someone loses someone close to them I would feel for them regardless if they were a cop or a logger. By they way I think Loggers die at a higher rate but I'm not sure. They do the work so you can have a house to live in ya know?

A lot of people work hard. I'm not saying fireman and cops shouldn't be paid, just that I think in many cases they are overpaid for the work they do.