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Old 12-15-2009, 10:55 PM   #1
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Default the tim tebow effect in the NFL

after listening to sirius radio and seeing the general feeling for tim tebow, i almost feel bad for tim tebow when he enters the league. a lot of people basically hate him, and its going to cause a mini-divide in whatever fanbase drafts him. i dont think hell be a first rounder, but 2nd rounder maybe and half the fans will feel they wasted a 2nd round pick and the other half will want to see what he can develop into in the pros, and it will be like bronco 2009 offseason all over, wherever it happens.

hes not gonna get a ton of fan support wherever he goes.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:57 PM   #2
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yeah, i'm kinda split on the guy myself, I mean he is probably the greatest college player in decades, but I don't think he is going to make a very good Pro QB. it will be interesting to see where he ends up, and what his role is going to be.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:59 PM   #3
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edit: nevermind, look at pics of his GF, i dont feel bad for him at all
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:03 PM   #4
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yeah, i'm kinda split on the guy myself, I mean he is probably the greatest college player in decades, but I don't think he is going to make a very good Pro QB. it will be interesting to see where he ends up, and what his role is going to be.
Im a huge UF fan and I dont even think he is "the greatest player in decades." He's a great player but there have been others before. Having said that, id like for him to do well but its hard to ignore some aspects of his game that could be (or more likely, are) a problem. I think he is a good guy to have on your team but I want more of a finished product out of a first round pick.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:03 PM   #5
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I think he's a good risk value as a second rounder.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:07 PM   #6
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I'm so in love with myself that I decided to copy and paste myself from another thread:


One thing to worry about with Tebow is how emotional he gets about the game. People often point to that as being his strength, and they'll rattle off some mumbo-jumbo about how iconic he is, and how he's a great leader, yadda yadda.

Maybe that stuff is true, and maybe he'll do all that. But, a lot of QBs of his caliber through high school and then in college at a big program like that have not dealt with losing. It falls back to that whole "how will he deal with adversity?" issue, and so far he's made a rambling diatribe (which he backed up by winning the NC) and cried on camera. You can call that passion and commitment if you want, but I'd call it overly emotional and potentially reckless. I don't think we're in danger of drafting him, but if the legend of Tim Tebow launches him up the draft board and he lands on a piss-poor team, I'd start worrying about him having a mental breakdown when it takes a while for him to learn how to win in the NFL.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:14 PM   #7
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he's not a good quarterback, end of story.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:17 PM   #8
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I'm so in love with myself that I decided to copy and paste myself from another thread:


One thing to worry about with Tebow is how emotional he gets about the game. People often point to that as being his strength, and they'll rattle off some mumbo-jumbo about how iconic he is, and how he's a great leader, yadda yadda.

Maybe that stuff is true, and maybe he'll do all that. But, a lot of QBs of his caliber through high school and then in college at a big program like that have not dealt with losing. It falls back to that whole "how will he deal with adversity?" issue, and so far he's made a rambling diatribe (which he backed up by winning the NC) and cried on camera. You can call that passion and commitment if you want, but I'd call it overly emotional and potentially reckless. I don't think we're in danger of drafting him, but if the legend of Tim Tebow launches him up the draft board and he lands on a piss-poor team, I'd start worrying about him having a mental breakdown when it takes a while for him to learn how to win in the NFL.

Id be less worried about some emotional response and more about whether he can physically do it. The rumor last year was that "the speech" came out of a heated discussion between he and Mullen...and butting heads with Mullen is also on reason he is/was gone. The summer preceding the 2008 season had Tebow going to the Phillippines doing his "greatest human ever" thing but this was at the expense of improving his game. Allegedly, this was a big part of the issue between he and Mullen. So, fast forward to the summer of 2009. Tebow was allegedly trying to clean up parts of his game to become better and even more pro ready. But when you watched him this year, you saw the same clunkyness that has been there in the past. Perhaps there was improvement but it was minimal. Or, perhaps he felt the effects of the concussion? Its hard to know for sure. But thats the problem. Theres too much mystery (if you choose to give him the benefit of the doubt) to use a first on Tebow.

On the other hand, does anyone remember Bradlee Van Pelt against San Diego in 2005? Even though he was highly effective against the Dolts, you also wonder why Van Pelt was on the roster. But maybe nowadays ther is a premium on running...maybe they see it a way of minimizing risk?
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:24 PM   #9
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Id be less worried about some emotional response and more about whether he can physically do it. The rumor last year was that "the speech" came out of a heated discussion between he and Mullen...and butting heads with Mullen is also on reason he is/was gone. The summer preceding the 2008 season had Tebow going to the Phillippines doing his "greatest human ever" thing but this was at the expense of improving his game. Allegedly, this was a big part of the issue between he and Mullen. So, fast forward to the summer of 2009. Tebow was allegedly trying to clean up parts of his game to become better and even more pro ready. But when you watched him this year, you saw the same clunkyness that has been there in the past. Perhaps there was improvement but it was minimal. Or, perhaps he felt the effects of the concussion? Its hard to know for sure. But thats the problem. Theres too much mystery (if you choose to give him the benefit of the doubt) to use a first on Tebow.

On the other hand, does anyone remember Bradlee Van Pelt against San Diego in 2005? Even though he was highly effective against the Dolts, you also wonder why Van Pelt was on the roster. But maybe nowadays ther is a premium on running...maybe they see it a way of minimizing risk?
It seems to me that minus Harvin and Murphey he simply was not the dominant player he appeared to be in previous seasons. Seems like the classic case of a QB who looks great in college thanks to the talent around him, but who doesn't have the tools to cut it in the NFL (e.g. Matt Leinart). With lesser talent this season on offense he really looked ordinary at times, especially passing the ball, and even his running was not as effective as it was in the past seasons. He has a clumsy, slow delivery, too. That won't cut it in the NFL. I think his best chance is to commit to playing H-back.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:26 PM   #10
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edit: nevermind, look at pics of his GF, i dont feel bad for him at all
The girl in the popular Tebow GF pic is not really his girlfriend.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:29 PM   #11
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It seems to me that minus Harvin and Murphey he simply was not the dominant player he appeared to be in previous seasons. Seems like the classic case of a QB who looks great in college thanks to the talent around him, but who doesn't have the tools to cut it in the NFL (e.g. Matt Leinart). With lesser talent this season on offense he really looked ordinary at times, especially passing the ball, and even his running was not as effective as it was in the past seasons. He has a clumsy, slow delivery, too. That won't cut it in the NFL. I think his best chance is to commit to playing H-back.
Yeah, he was a great college player so, let me make this clear up front. But you have a point. Florida brings in tons of talent...ANNUALLY. So the idea that UF had scrubs after Harvin left is silly. What you are suggesting is that others made him better more than he made others better. This is an observation my brother (also a Gator fan) and I have shared numerous times. Yet its not something you commonly hear of. The reason is that Tebow does a lot on his own, which is impressive. But its a legitimate question as to how much he makes others better. As I said to BroncoDoug, I dont even think he's the best UF player in decades.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:35 PM   #12
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Yeah, he was a great college player so, let me make this clear up front. But you have a point. Florida brings in tons of talent...ANNUALLY. So the idea that UF had scrubs after Harvin left is silly. What you are suggesting is that others made him better more than he made others better. This is an observation my brother (also a Gator fan) and I have shared numerous times. Yet its not something you commonly hear of. The reason is that Tebow does a lot on his own, which is impressive. But its a legitimate question as to how much he makes others better. As I said to BroncoDoug, I dont even think he's the best UF player in decades.
Please note I did not say that offensive players this season were "scrubs", but that it was simply a less talented group than he had in his other seasons at Florida.

Tebow is a great athlete and on the college level he was able to make a lot of impressive plays on his own. However, great athletes playing QB in college who do not also have premium passing skills do not generally translate to great QBs in the NFL. That's because every player on an NFL roster is a great athlete, so you simply can't get away with relying on athleticism at the NFL level. At least not consistently.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:40 PM   #13
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If he is drafted as a QB, he would need to go to a team with an older vet established ahead of him where he can sit and work on his mechanics and footwork.


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Old 12-15-2009, 11:42 PM   #14
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I didn't get to see enough of him to have a strong opinion. He looks a little clunky throwing the ball. Seems like a gamer, but I'm not seeing an elite QB when I look at the guy.

Is there any chance a team uses him in some sort of combo-role, platoon kind of thing?

NFL teams are getting more experimental these days. Maybe someone brings him in as a pass/run threat type QB?
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:44 PM   #15
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Please note I did not say that offensive players this season were "scrubs", but that it was simply a less talented group than he had in his other seasons at Florida.

Tebow is a great athlete and on the college level he was able to make a lot of impressive plays on his own. However, great athletes playing QB in college who do not also have premium passing skills do not generally translate to great QBs in the NFL. That's because every player on an NFL roster is a great athlete, so you simply can't get away with relying on athleticism at the NFL level. At least not consistently.
Well, perhaps there are some who can but there are economic reasons for a QB not to do what they did in college...not to mention, a QB who can pass is still more effective than one who can run. That doesnt mean running QBs cant influence team success. It all goes back to the cliche that there's no defense for a perfect pass.

Regarding the scrubs part. That wasnt me putting words in your mouth as much as it was addressing scuttlebutt that has been out there, much of which is centered around apologizing for Tebow. And just to hammer it home, Louis Murphy has actually been more impressive as a rookie in the NFL than he was at UF. Theres a reason for that and it likely ties into what we've been discussing. And, also, dont forget that a lot of ways they got Harvin the ball was either by getting it to him in the backfield or on some short pass at the LOS and letting him run through the defense.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:46 PM   #16
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I didn't get to see enough of him to have a strong opinion. He looks a little clunky throwing the ball. Seems like a gamer, but I'm not seeing an elite QB when I look at the guy.

Is there any chance a team uses him in some sort of combo-role, platoon kind of thing?

NFL teams are getting more experimental these days. Maybe someone brings him in as a pass/run threat type QB?
Oh, the irony.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:52 PM   #17
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Well, perhaps there are some who can but there are economic reasons for a QB not to do what they did in college...not to mention, a QB who can pass is still more effective than one who can run. That doesnt mean running QBs cant influence team success. It all goes back to the cliche that there's no defense for a perfect pass.
Well, you do have the occasional guy like Michael Vick, Vince Young, or even Kordell Stewart who are such great athletes that they can have some level of success in the NFL. But those guys are/were all wildly inconsistent as passers, and if the opposing defense succeeded at keeping them in the pocket their teams were pretty much screwed. But, honestly, I don't think Tebow is quite as good of an athlete as those guys I mentioned. Plus, even though those guys were inconsistent passers, they all had very good arm strength, which Tebow lacks.

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Regarding the scrubs part. That wasnt me putting words in your mouth as much as it was addressing scuttlebutt that has been out there, much of which is centered around apologizing for Tebow. And just to hammer it home, Louis Murphy has actually been more impressive as a rookie in the NFL than he was at UF. Theres a reason for that and it likely ties into what we've been discussing. And, also, dont forget that a lot of ways they got Harvin the ball was either by getting it to him in the backfield or on some short pass at the LOS and letting him run through the defense.
Yeah, I agree with your take here.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:57 PM   #18
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On the other hand, does anyone remember Bradlee Van Pelt against San Diego in 2005? Even though he was highly effective against the Dolts, you also wonder why Van Pelt was on the roster. But maybe nowadays ther is a premium on running...maybe they see it a way of minimizing risk?
anyone else think that had Van Pelt come out of college a few years later than he did, that he more than likely would have ended up a mid round pick used specifically to run the Wildcat offense?
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:58 PM   #19
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he's not a good quarterback, end of story.
should have closed this thread after post #7
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:00 AM   #20
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he is a good COLLEGE quarterback. Maybe people remember Eric Crouch. If the gadget stuff catches on, he could be a fit somewhere. He is athletic. I do know that TJ would love the Broncos to draft him if it brings a split board. Just think of the traffic everyday from the pro and anti crowd.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:02 AM   #21
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Well, you do have the occasional guy like Michael Vick, Vince Young, or even Kordell Stewart who are such great athletes that they can have some level of success in the NFL. But those guys are/were all wildly inconsistent as passers, and if the opposing defense succeeded at keeping them in the pocket their teams were pretty much screwed. But, honestly, I don't think Tebow is quite as good of an athlete as those guys I mentioned.



Yeah, I agree with your take here.
I think Tebow will be a running threat. While some guys have struggled with the passing games when they could also run, there is something that needs to be emphasized. When a QB is a running threat, that makes it a lot easier to pass. Its easy to boil this down to the most basic level if you simply imagine being a QB who has to cover a RB running a circle route while also being mindful of a QB possibly running . The fact that it makes you have one eye in the backfield puts the passer and the receiver at a big advantage. This element should put into perspective how much better the passing QBs are than a lot of the running QBs like McNabb, Vick, etc. McNabb is a better passer but Ive seen him miss A LOT of easy passes to. Which takes me back to his ability to run. Think of guys like Kelly, Marino, Moon, etc...guys who presented no threat of running yet made offenses work through the air. Just think how much better they are/were at passing the ball than guys like Vick, McNabb, and possibly Tebow. Regardless, youre right a lot of QBs do struggle passing when they can also run. But it shouldnt be forgotten that their running threat gives them an advantage when it comes to passing. This advantage can possibly serve as an equalizer to some extent. I say to some extent because I still think that if you run up against the better teams that you typically see in the post season, youre better off with a QB who can pass with one who can run...even though nothing is set in stone.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:07 AM   #22
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he is a good COLLEGE quarterback. Maybe people remember Eric Crouch. If the gadget stuff catches on, he could be a fit somewhere. He is athletic. I do know that TJ would love the Broncos to draft him if it brings a split board. Just think of the traffic everyday from the pro and anti crowd.

If the Broncos drafted Tebow, I'd be ok with it. He has an interesting skill set and it would be more interesting to see how he develops with McDaniels. The team has more pressing needs however then a project at QB. I've watched almost every Florida game this season, he has the arm strength, but his mechanics make me want to yak.


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Old 12-16-2009, 12:07 AM   #23
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One thing to worry about with Tebow is how emotional he gets about the game. People often point to that as being his strength, and they'll rattle off some mumbo-jumbo about how iconic he is, and how he's a great leader, yadda yadda.
Can you imagine him and McD on the Sidelines... It would be a RIOT!!!
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:10 AM   #24
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I think Tebow will be a running threat. While some guys have struggled with the passing games when they could also run, there is something that needs to be emphasized. When a QB is a running threat, that makes it a lot easier to pass. Its easy to boil this down to the most basic level if you simply imagine being a QB who has to cover a RB running a circle route while also being mindful of a QB possibly running . The fact that it makes you have one eye in the backfield puts the passer and the receiver at a big advantage. This element should put into perspective how much better the passing QBs are than a lot of the running QBs like McNabb, Vick, etc. McNabb is a better passer but Ive seen him miss A LOT of easy passes to. Which takes me back to his ability to run. Think of guys like Kelly, Marino, Moon, etc...guys who presented no threat of running yet made offenses work through the air. Just think how much better they are/were at passing the ball than guys like Vick, McNabb, and possibly Tebow. Regardless, youre right a lot of QBs do struggle passing when they can also run. But it shouldnt be forgotten that their running threat gives them an advantage when it comes to passing. This advantage can possibly serve as an equalizer to some extent. I say to some extent because I still think that if you run up against the better teams that you typically see in the post season, youre better off with a QB who can pass with one who can run...even though nothing is set in stone.
Yeah, but that type of QB has never resulted in his team winning a championship. Usually, they run into a team that contains them in the pocket and challenges them to kill them with the pass, and they can't do it. Also, like I said, while guys like Vick and Young are not consistent as passers, they at least have top shelf arm strength that allows them to somewhat overcome their less refined passing skills. Tebow doesn't have that kind of arm. As far as his running, he is not fast and elusive the way Vick and Young and those other guys I mentioned are. He runs straight ahead, which is part of what people found fascinating about him. You just don't see a QB lowering his shoulder into LBs that often. But I really don't see him charging over the Ray Lewis' of the world the way he ran over guys in college.
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:19 AM   #25
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Yeah, but that type of QB has never resulted in his team winning a championship. Usually, they run into a team that contains them in the pocket and challenges them to kill them with the pass, and they can't do it. Also, like I said, while guys like Vick and Young are not consistent as passers, they at least have top shelf arm strength that allows them to somewhat overcome their less refined passing skills. Tebow doesn't have that kind of arm. As far as his running, he is not fast and elusive the way Vick and Young and those other guys I mentioned are. He runs straight ahead, which is part of what people found fascinating about him. You just don't see a QB lowering his shoulder into LBs that often. But I really don't see him charging over the Ray Lewis' of the world the way he ran over guys in college.
Tebow has a stronger arm than many give him credit for. He wont be running over Lewis but that doesnt mean Lewis wouldnt be less effective covering in pass protection if he has to watch out for Tebow's running. I think the bigger issue is not whether Tebow can run but how he runs. Its very physical and the NFL has a lot of guys who, like you said, are very fast and hit really hard. I think the bigger issue is how he runs more than if he can run and its about wear and tear.
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