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Old 12-03-2009, 12:10 PM   #1
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Default Why is everyone talking C.Johnson for MVP?

Are they nuts?

Granted the guy runs for a ton of yards. And this is not a knock on the guy. However, the 1st 6 games of the season he was putting up probowl numbers and they were 0-6. VY comes in and they are 5-0 and the say its all about CJ.

I call BS. Am I missing something?
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:17 PM   #2
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actually to me it seems he is a darkhorse with guys like Favre and Manning getting a lot of the attention

Im not sure if he is the "most valuable player", but he is doing just as well as anyone else in the league

He is pretty much dominating, and it is more impressive when he is on a team not known for their offensive weapons

I highly doubt he wins it, but if he breaks 2k rushing or breaks Faulks all purpose yardage record I think he should get it
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
Are they nuts?

Granted the guy runs for a ton of yards. And this is not a knock on the guy. However, the 1st 6 games of the season he was putting up probowl numbers and they were 0-6. VY comes in and they are 5-0 and the say its all about CJ.

I call BS. Am I missing something?
He's the lone bright spot on a struggling team and IMHO, his numbers are even more incredible when you take into consideration that he has been the only consistent threat on offense that the Titans have.

Really, do you think opposing defenses are worried about VY's ability to pass? If anything, opposing defenses are saying "we gotta shut down CJ and make VY beat us."

CJ is still putting up great numbers, even with a struggling QB.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:19 PM   #4
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its another one of those flawed fallacies. you think chris single handedly lost the first 5, and because of savior vince they are now 5 in a row?

hes putting up these numbers, especially early, with people stacking the box because collins was playing horribly. even the guys on sirius said to watch chris johnson even when hes not getting the ball, hes a magnet to defenders because hes far and away the best player on the field.

it takes more than a single rb to win games, the first 6 games he was absolutely destroying people with 200+ yard games, yet titans were still losing because collins and half their defense was out. now vince young is in and is playing great, it only makes things easier for everyone because the offense isnt run left, run right, screen anymore.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:22 PM   #5
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Any runningback on pace for 2000 yards deserves at least some mention of MVP. I think Brees has it locked up though.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #6
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Any runningback on pace for 2000 yards deserves at least some mention of MVP. I think Brees has it locked up though.
not just 2000, hes on pace for the all time rushing record (e. dickerson) and all time yards from scrimmage record. hes gotta keep a high pace for the all time running yardage but still hes been doing it this long, why not longer...
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:24 PM   #7
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Crazy,

Who is this "everyone" you mention? Sure, I see his name thrown into the discussion here and there as a potential candidate (and how couldn't he be?), but I have yet to hear anyone of note actually say he's a front runner for the award.

Anyone whose on pace to shatter the single season rushing record HAS to at least get some mention, regardless of a team's record IMO.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:29 PM   #8
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its another one of those flawed fallacies. you think chris single handedly lost the first 5, and because of savior vince they are now 5 in a row?

hes putting up these numbers, especially early, with people stacking the box because collins was playing horribly. even the guys on sirius said to watch chris johnson even when hes not getting the ball, hes a magnet to defenders because hes far and away the best player on the field.

it takes more than a single rb to win games, the first 6 games he was absolutely destroying people with 200+ yard games, yet titans were still losing because collins and half their defense was out. now vince young is in and is playing great, it only makes things easier for everyone because the offense isnt run left, run right, screen anymore.
Player of the year and MVP are 2 different things. I think he should be in the running for POY. Not MVP.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:29 PM   #9
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He deserves some consideration, but also the first 6 games he had 2 100 yard performances and only 2 touchdowns in those games.
Since Young has become QB he has taken off, 7 touchdowns, all 100 yard rushing performances, 3 over 150 and 1 over 200 in those 5 games.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:29 PM   #10
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Crazy,

Who is this "everyone" you mention? Sure, I see his name thrown into the discussion here and there as a potential candidate (and how couldn't he be?), but I have yet to hear anyone of note actually say he's a front runner for the award.

Anyone whose on pace to shatter the single season rushing record HAS to at least get some mention, regardless of a team's record IMO.
Everyone = Media.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:32 PM   #11
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its another one of those flawed fallacies. you think chris single handedly lost the first 5, and because of savior vince they are now 5 in a row?

hes putting up these numbers, especially early, with people stacking the box because collins was playing horribly. even the guys on sirius said to watch chris johnson even when hes not getting the ball, hes a magnet to defenders because hes far and away the best player on the field.

it takes more than a single rb to win games, the first 6 games he was absolutely destroying people with 200+ yard games, yet titans were still losing because collins and half their defense was out. now vince young is in and is playing great, it only makes things easier for everyone because the offense isnt run left, run right, screen anymore.
Did you read where I said I'm not knocking the guy? Where did I say they lost games because of him? You dont have to explain the fundementals meaning of the word "team" to me. We are talking about the MVP of the league.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:37 PM   #12
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He deserves some consideration, but also the first 6 games he had 2 100 yard performances and only 2 touchdowns in those games.
Since Young has become QB he has taken off, 7 touchdowns, all 100 yard rushing performances, 3 over 150 and 1 over 200 in those 5 games.
i think that goes to show how much he was being gameplanned for teh first several weeks due to collin's ineptitude, yet he still managed to produce pretty well. hes third in carries in teh NFL but over 250 more yards than the two guys above him (steven jackson, peterson). now that they have a QB who is playing pretty well, it opens everything up for johnson to go even more nuts than he has before. if he hits 125 next game i think he first RB ever to get it in 7 consecutive games, not 100% sure if hell be first to do it though

he also has 3 rushing TDs of 85 yards or more...this year.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:38 PM   #13
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Did you read where I said I'm not knocking the guy? Where did I say they lost games because of him? You dont have to explain the fundementals meaning of the word "team" to me. We are talking about the MVP of the league.
a guy who redefines what the RB position is about in his second year by possibly destroying every record is worth consideration. he should have offensive player of year locked down if he does break those records.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:38 PM   #14
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Any runningback on pace for 2000 yards deserves at least some mention of MVP. I think Brees has it locked up though.
Winner.

Without CJ, the Titans probably are 0-11. Will he win it? No. Does he deserve mention? Yup.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:39 PM   #15
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If Chris Johnson keeps up his torrid pace he should get MVP hands down over Brees and Peyton b/c he plays the more difficult and high injury position vs what the QB's have to deal with.

Last time I checked the RB position has had the rules changed and altered for their position, advantage and safety like the QB position has. In fact the QB position has rules changed to benefit them so much, one could argue astricks should be applied to the passing records they set and break...especially in the 21st Century.

The advent of QB no longer having to endure hard hits and their WR's not being allowed to be hit after five yards makes a hughe difference in the QB being able to stay injury free and not miss games and put remarkable passing stats.

Meanwhile the RB puts his body thru a car wreck of 25 mph everytime he takes a hand off and runs with the ball from the LOS.

So yes, hands-down should CJ continues his torrid pace he should win MVP over Peyton, Farve and Mannining.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:41 PM   #16
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Read somewhere where he has more TD runs of 85+ yards this SEASON than anyone ever had in their CAREER.

He most certainly deserves consideration for the award. He is on pace to break the all-time rushing title.

He won't get it though as Favre, Brees, and Manning are QB's and equally deserving.

It will be interesting to see who wins it between the aforementioned 3. I mean, if the season ended today, who would win it? Probably Brees.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:41 PM   #17
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he should have offensive player of year locked down if he does break those records.
I agree with this
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:43 PM   #18
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If Chris Johnson keeps up his torrid pace he should get MVP hands down over Brees and Peyton b/c he plays the more difficult and high injury position vs what the QB's have to deal with.

Last time I checked the RB position has had the rules changed and altered for their position, advantage and safety like the QB position has. In fact the QB position has rules changed to benefit them so much, one could argue astricks should be applied to the passing records they set and break...especially in the 21st Century.

The advent of QB no longer having to endure hard hits and their WR's not being allowed to be hit after five yards makes a hughe difference in the QB being able to stay injury free and not miss games and put remarkable passing stats.

Meanwhile the RB puts his body thru a car wreck of 25 mph everytime he takes a hand off and runs with the ball from the LOS.

So yes, hands-down should CJ continues his torrid pace he should win MVP over Peyton, Farve and Mannining.
RB is more difficult? You'll have a hard time argueing that point.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:45 PM   #19
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Read somewhere where he has more TD runs of 85+ yards this SEASON than anyone ever had in their CAREER.

He most certainly deserves consideration for the award. He is on pace to break the all-time rushing title.

He won't get it though as Favre, Brees, and Manning are QB's and equally deserving.

It will be interesting to see who wins it between the aforementioned 3. I mean, if the season ended today, who would win it? Probably Brees.
Not sure about 85 but I know Sanders had 2 80+ yard runs in one game.
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:45 PM   #20
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If Chris Johnson keeps up his torrid pace he should get MVP hands down over Brees and Peyton b/c he plays the more difficult and high injury position vs what the QB's have to deal with.

Last time I checked the RB position has had the rules changed and altered for their position, advantage and safety like the QB position has. In fact the QB position has rules changed to benefit them so much, one could argue astricks should be applied to the passing records they set and break...especially in the 21st Century.

The advent of QB no longer having to endure hard hits and their WR's not being allowed to be hit after five yards makes a hughe difference in the QB being able to stay injury free and not miss games and put remarkable passing stats.

Meanwhile the RB puts his body thru a car wreck of 25 mph everytime he takes a hand off and runs with the ball from the LOS.

So yes, hands-down should CJ continues his torrid pace he should win MVP over Peyton, Farve and Mannining.
I see your logic, but my only beef is that the award is for the most 'valuable' player. That is, which player, whom without, would their team be barely recognizable from what they are now. Tennessee was 0-6 with CJ (no, he wasn't the sole reason) and without him, they'd likely have been 0-6. Favre, on the other hand, has the vikes at 10-1. Were he not there, they'd likely be 6-5, IMO. His value has added 4 wins to the team already.

CJ may very well accomplish the greatest statistical feat of any player in teh league this year, but his value, though still very high to the Titans, is not as high as Favre or Manning,
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Old 12-03-2009, 12:47 PM   #21
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I'm sad to say that I agree with Rastaman's post. It's not that RB is necessarily the harder position, it's that it's the harder position to accomplish the feats that CJ is, esp. considering modern rules of the game.


I think it gets down to what kind of characteristics should an MVP have? I think we each define that a little differently, and I'm not sure if the award has a specific description or not for who the candidates should be.

For me, it's the player who is most valuable to his individual team. For the Broncos, I'd say that candidate would be either Dawkins or Orton...something like that. If you took every team's MVP, and then picked the single player who you thought was best, that's how I would arrive at a league MVP.

I think CJ would be a finalist in a process like that, if it were going by how I define MVP.

Last edited by s0phr0syne; 12-03-2009 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:03 PM   #22
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I see your logic, but my only beef is that the award is for the most 'valuable' player. That is, which player, whom without, would their team be barely recognizable from what they are now. Tennessee was 0-6 with CJ (no, he wasn't the sole reason) and without him, they'd likely have been 0-6. Favre, on the other hand, has the vikes at 10-1. Were he not there, they'd likely be 6-5, IMO. His value has added 4 wins to the team already.

CJ may very well accomplish the greatest statistical feat of any player in teh league this year, but his value, though still very high to the Titans, is not as high as Favre or Manning,
If Favre is worth 4 wins through today, how many of Tennessee's 5 wins is CJ worth? I'd say all five, if we're sticking with the "Tavaris Jackson" theory. That is: we are required to replace CJ with a scrub RB in his place....not simply a "league average guy".
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:28 PM   #23
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Any QB that is complemented with AD at RB should not be MVP.

What CJ has done with scrubs around him makes him worthy of MVP consideration.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:32 PM   #24
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Are they nuts?

Granted the guy runs for a ton of yards. And this is not a knock on the guy. However, the 1st 6 games of the season he was putting up probowl numbers and they were 0-6. VY comes in and they are 5-0 and the say its all about CJ.

I call BS. Am I missing something?
CJ struggled for a few games and didn't get many yards early in the year and has had 5 or 6 straight games with 125 plus yards. I think your underestimating what he has done.

Quote:
Any runningback on pace for 2000 yards deserves at least some mention of MVP. I think Brees has it locked up though.
I think Farve has the upper hand on Brees right now. He has just as many TD's with only 4 INT's and the league loves him. It is his to lose in my opinion. Brees is very deserving too and I think it is between those two.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:37 PM   #25
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not just 2000, hes on pace for the all time rushing record (e. dickerson) and all time yards from scrimmage record. hes gotta keep a high pace for the all time running yardage but still hes been doing it this long, why not longer...
He is playing great but he is not on pace to break the single season rushing record (2105 yds). He is on pace for 2032 yards. 1396 yds in 11 games is about 127 a game, times 16 is 2032.
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