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Old 11-26-2009, 06:04 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
The only reason I can think of is that McDaniels has setup this offense in the first half of the season for the short passing game.

When we were executing well on offense it was distributing the all to different receivers and Moreno and Buck are much better pass catchers than Hillis.

That being said, Moreno's fumbling issue and Buckhalter's knee injury makes me believe that we do need a punishing runner that can run inside in Hillis.

The bigger problem though, has been that we've been behind so often that past few weeks that McDaniels has just abandoned the running game in the 2nd half so no RB is getting much work then.
i guess you missed last year when there was alot of people floating that he had the best hands on the TEAM.. and by he i mean hillis
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:05 AM   #52
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:42 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Popps
McDaniels has shown no bias of any sort.
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
*scoff*
Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.
One needs only to look at the Washington game log to see bias.

CBuck fumbles and never sees the field again after avg 5.5 yards a carry his only two carries
Moreno fumbles the next week and continues to play. Some could say the same about Hillis.

There's a double standard here
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:44 AM   #54
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From what I have seen from some of our "starters" Hillis has much to offer. I believe he has a better handle on the ball in all situations and could be of a force in short yardage and goal line situations.Both running the ball and receiving, even as a pass or lead blocker.

In comparison Hillis can't do any worse at RB then Simms at his particular QB backup position.

Last edited by NYBronco; 11-26-2009 at 06:55 AM..
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:51 AM   #55
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I've been a McD supporter, but they're are a few thing that have begun to piss me off about him. He clearly plays favorites, just like Shanny did, just look at the Buckhalter situation in the Redskins game.

I read an article awhile back that Hillis was severely under performing in practice. They give out black jerseys to people who excel in practice that week and Hillis has received none, Moss has received multiple ones. This is probably the main reason why he has not seenthe field.

BUT, McD has seen his game tape from last year and the guy is just a stud football player. I don't see any reason why we don't give him 5-10 carries a game to inject some power into our run game and mix things up a little bit?
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:36 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEH View Post
One needs only to look at the Washington game log to see bias.

CBuck fumbles and never sees the field again after avg 5.5 yards a carry his only two carries
Moreno fumbles the next week and continues to play. Some could say the same about Hillis.

There's a double standard here
Absolutely. And to bring it around to Hillis, Peyton fumbled that opening kick in the Cleveland game, and has had hardly gotten on the field since.

Scheff also seems to be disappearing in our offensive scheme, as the passes are going more to Daniel Graham... a dude who is a blocking TE and also a former Pat.

I guess every coach has 'his guys.' Our rookie aint any different, I guess. I can just hope and pray we dont waive DJ Williams and Elvis to bring Tedy Bruschi and Ted Johnson outta retirement.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:53 AM   #57
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Here is the complete document on Hillis, I posted this in an earlier thread.

Attachment 25608

Last edited by Pony Boy; 11-02-2013 at 05:35 PM..
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:09 AM   #58
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It was weird when Hillis scored his only TD how he didn't accept congratulations ran off the field not talking to anybody and went and sat on the bench staring at the ground. That sort of gave me the feeling he didn't really want to play for some reason. That was a strange reaction to scoring a TD early in the season.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:36 AM   #59
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I haven't read all the posts...but at least half. The one thing I haven't read so far, is:

Hillis fumbled early in the season (if I recall correctly). There was a blow up on the side line where Hillis was shouting at McDaniels. I think there's bad blood there and it's going to take a lot for Hillis to dig his way out of the dog house.

Peyton Hillis will be a stud in this league....just probably not for our Broncos. Mike Bell seems to be doing pretty well with the Saints.

I don't think Shanahan thought poorly of Hillis. I think Shanahan didn't want to trust a rookie until he absolutely had to. Hillis was not the typical RB at 250lbs, so he was hesitant, but after he was forced to play him at TB, his eyes were open. I think had Shanahan stayed put, Hillis would have been playing a key role this season. I also believe that Shanny would have taken Orakapo instead of Moreno. But, hey, its all speculation now.

Either McDaniels will let Hillis out of the dog house so that he can prove himself...or Hillis will be a stud elsewhere. Mark my words. And by the way, Hillis did get a couple of snaps last game...but when you fall behind in games...you abandon the run pretty fast.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:49 AM   #60
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Someone posted this earlier this year. It's interesting stuff, but none of it changes that the guy has shown to be an absolute beast with the ball in his hands. The guy flat punishes the other team.

So whatever that SIGMA profile says, tell me we couldn't use this in our offense right now:

Exactly but I wouldn't be surprised to see him gone after the season along with Marshall and Stokely, with McD's so called complex mastermind offense noone on our team must be smart enough cause it isn't working and it isn't producing so he'll probably blame everyone but himself and get rid of them but we'll see after all he is a Genius right
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:16 AM   #61
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The guy is at least a five tool player: pass blocker, back field receiver, lead blocker, punishing open field runningback, short yardage running back.

It's amazing to me that we can't find a way to use him on a team that has managed only four rushing touchdowns, and is in the top ten in fumbles. Hell, Hillis accounts for 25% of our rushing touchdowns with 1. He's gotten 50% of Knowshon's scoring production with 1 touchdown.

In 68 carries last year, Hillis gave us 6 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 24 first downs (35.3 first down percentage), a 5.0 yard per carry average and zero fumbles.

In 142 carries, Knowshon has 2 TDs, produced 14 receptions, 32 first downs (22.5 first down percentage), a 4.2 yard per carry average, and four fumbles - one more and he ties Tatum Bell's 2006 career high.


I've bolded the number that really irks me. Hillis's number here is elite. Being over 30% is practically unheard of. Nearing 25% is what guys like Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and MoJo Drew have.
I like overachievers like Hillis personally...however as a fan of the Broncos, I want the best player on the field if he's healthy.

Pointing out the number of first downs rushed for is senseless....how many of his "elite" first downs were 1-2 yard gains? Now if 35% of his rushes from 1st and 10, 2nd and 8, or 3rd and 4, then I'd be more impressed.

As far as Moreno goess, he's a rookie and is gonna make rookie mistakes...the big boys of the NFL are better at stripping the ball than the guys at Louisiana Tech are. I'm not enamored with his case of fumbilitis, but he's the most complete back we have on our roster....and yes, he's better than Hillis too TJ.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:24 AM   #62
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I'd agree with that, absolutely.

But, here we are. McDaniels directed one of the most prolific offenses in history. Why did Shanahan and McDaniels both choose NOT to start Hillis when they had other options?

I don't have an answer, but with so much recent speculation as to how he's the answer to our running woes (where we average about 4.5 yards a carry between our two starters) .... I figured this was thread-worthy.

I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.
I think I can explain why he didn't start and hasn't started much. Hillis is not a system back, he clearly doesn't run well with a lead blocker and I believe he is most efficient in the type of run scheme they have at Arkansas where the offense tries to spread out and open up many gaps and the let the RB chose the right opportunity.

Whenever I see Hillis do well he is running off tackle from a single back formation or he is running a 1 cut route in a stretch play. To really take advantage of his skills you have to get him in space and let him go 1 on 1 with a defender. Unfortunately that is not a stable way to have a run game since it relies on at least a 1 to 1 blocker to defender ratio which is hard to achieve when running outside consistently since the defense will cheat to the running side and outman the offensive line on that side and leave the backside unprotected.

Hillis is in my estimation very good at what he does, but he is not the complete package you can build an offense around. I am concerned that he is not seeing more time out of the backfield though, he is clearly the best RB in the flat.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:27 AM   #63
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*scoff*

Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.
Buckhalter made plays in Philly too TJ...but he's not the same player as Westbrook is. Last season he averaged 4.9 ypc to Westbrooks 4.0. He averaged 12.5 yards per catch to Westbrook's 7.4. So Andy Reid must be yet another moron who intentionally holds back the better players in order to satisfy his enormous ego, right?
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:33 AM   #64
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LMAO. Thank you for saving me the time looking that one up.

He's playing HB. It's not rocket science.

McDaniels just wants his boy in the game to make his draft class look better. That's basically it.

Personally, I hope Hillis is let go so he can sign on with a team like New Orleans and he'll just get to abuse the league through the air and rushing the ball. Then we'll be talking about another Bronco player that could have been.

Sigh, whatever.

I hope we win tomorrow dammit.
Really...care to name any former Broncos player on another team's roster right now that make you "sigh" wonder what might have been?
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:44 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CEH View Post
One needs only to look at the Washington game log to see bias.

CBuck fumbles and never sees the field again after avg 5.5 yards a carry his only two carries
Moreno fumbles the next week and continues to play. Some could say the same about Hillis.

There's a double standard here
I totally agree with you there, man
There's been a lot of uneducated posts suggesting earlier in the season that the reason Hillis was benched was because he fumbled and blew up his given opprtunities by making mistakes.
Now that we've seen Moreno fumble the ball left and right without any repercusion, now they're coming up with some off-the-wall comments as to what the real reason Hillis is not playing is.
To me, is more McD immaturity showing thru the reason why he won't play Hillis.
McD must've seen all of Hillis videos from last year. Hillis should've figured in his offensive plans from the get go.
Hillis has not played a full game.
He's been put in there for a play or two every other game if that!
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:45 AM   #66
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I dont want complex offense that scores only 3 points.

Peyton Hillis is a stud..I would take him over any of our current RBs.
Its funny that people are giving excuses for not starting Hillis.

I think Hillis might have done something bad personally to Mcd.
Thats the reason he is not starting.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:47 AM   #67
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And now Mike Bell turns up as a valuable weapon on an undefeated team.

Bell is having a nice year....514 yards (4.5 ypc) and 4 TDs in a part time role.
Mike Bell is having a nice year...but, then again the Saints are using a platoon system, so he's not getting hit 30 times a game either. Darren Sproles has had some huge games in his career too...but would you trust him with 20-30 carries a game...for 16 games...and perhaps the playoffs? Hell no, he's not big enough to hold up being given the lion's share of carries.

In fact it's a growing trend around the NFL to use two to three RB's to generate your running attack. Look at what the Giants did last year, and the year they had Dayne and Barber. And the Jags with Taylor and Jones-Drew, the Panthers with Stewart and Williams, the Cowboys when they had Jones and Barber....the Ravens with McClain, McGahee, and Rice.

The teams using just one dominant RB are getting fewer and fewer....I think each goes with what works for them and evidently being 10-0 means RB by commitee works in New Orleans.

Last edited by errand; 11-26-2009 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:49 AM   #68
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I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.
How can you be taken serious when you make these type of comments, man.
Come on!!!
Have you seen Hillis play a full game this season?
One or two plays in a game evey other week or so qualifies to you as given chances?

Last edited by strafen; 11-26-2009 at 10:03 AM..
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:51 AM   #69
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How can you be taken serious when you make this type of comments, man.
Come on!!!
Have you seen Hillis play a full game this season?
One or two plays in a game evey other week or so qualifies to you as given chances?
It's been my understanding that playing time on Sunday is earned by making plays Monday thru Friday....you tell me.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:57 AM   #70
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I dont want complex offense that scores only 3 points.

Peyton Hillis is a stud..I would take him over any of our current RBs.
Its funny that people are giving excuses for not starting Hillis.

I think Hillis might have done something bad personally to Mcd.
Thats the reason he is not starting.
...yeah, so was JMFW, huh?

You clowns must have missed the part where it took 6, that's right 6 RB's to be placed on IR before he even saw the field last season. That means this beast that you would take over Moreno and Buckhalter was 7th on the depth chart in Mike's offense.

So did he do something bad personally to Mike last year, and injuries made Mike play him out of neccesity? And if he did, who is the one constant in this situation of coaches not playing him more than his alleged immense talent suggests he should play?

If a guy has been married several times when do you start to wonder if the problem is him and not the seven wives?
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:58 AM   #71
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It's been my understanding that playing time on Sunday is earned by making plays Monday thru Friday....you tell me.
So that's probably why Moreno and Jordan are in and Hillis is not, huh?
Playing time is earned on Sundays when you are given a good share of plays to do your thing on the field.
So far Moreno has not proven that's the case at all. He may have earned his playing time M-F but he's certainly stinking it it up on Sundays.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:02 AM   #72
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...yeah, so was JMFW, huh?

You clowns must have missed the part where it took 6, that's right 6 RB's to be placed on IR before he even saw the field last season. That means this beast that you would take over Moreno and Buckhalter was 7th on the depth chart in Mike's offense.

So did he do something bad personally to Mike last year, and injuries made Mike play him out of neccesity? And if he did, who is the one constant in this situation of coaches not playing him more than his alleged immense talent suggests he should play?

If a guy has been married several times when do you start to wonder if the problem is him and not the seven wives?
Hiils was a rookie. Hillis is a FB not a RB.
When the injuries happened he was given his chance to be in the line-up and play, and he never looked back.

Why do you insist on defending Moreno over Hillis?
Please!
Haven't you seen enough already?
He's bordering bust status as we speak.
He has had no impact on any game this season at all.
Look at the Hillis videos from the time he started to play, and you will see the immediate impact he brought ot this offense by blocking, running with authority and catching the ball.
Wake up.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:05 AM   #73
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Did you guys know that he's white?
...(with apologies to Eddie Murphy)

"Oh, there they go, there they go again...every damn time we start talking about Bronco RB's, a white man's gotta pull Peyton Hillis out their ass.....that's their one, that's their one...Peyton Hillis, Peyton Hillis"

..and since you're gay, I guess pulling him out of your ass would make it literally, huh?
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:06 AM   #74
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Really...care to name any former Broncos player on another team's roster right now that make you "sigh" wonder what might have been?
There's been plenty. Some have had trade-offs like Clinton Portis. Ashley Lelie is another even though he kind of forced his hand. Chris Myers was a guy that I thought had great skill and was just coming into his own. Desmond Clark had great potential in front of him before he was abrubtly cut. He's now been in the league 8 or so year's now.

Bert Berry and Reggie Hayward were guys that had a lot of potential in front of them when they weren't resigned. Nate Wayne was a guy who blew up on the scene as a 7th round draft pick (didn't research that but kinda remember it) and then we let him go for next to nothing. Then of course Tory James and Deltha O'Neal went on to get countless interceptions in a bengals uniform. I was more disappointed with losing James who looked like he would be a stud for us until he blew out his knee. He didn't come back right for about 3 or 4 years.

Those names sit on the top of my mind. I'm pretty sure Hillis will probably fit in this mold as well, eventually.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:09 AM   #75
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...yeah, so was JMFW, huh?

You clowns must have missed the part where it took 6, that's right 6 RB's to be placed on IR before he even saw the field last season. That means this beast that you would take over Moreno and Buckhalter was 7th on the depth chart in Mike's offense.

So did he do something bad personally to Mike last year, and injuries made Mike play him out of neccesity? And if he did, who is the one constant in this situation of coaches not playing him more than his alleged immense talent suggests he should play?

If a guy has been married several times when do you start to wonder if the problem is him and not the seven wives?
Hillis saw time on the field before all thosa rb's were injured but if you have proof that he sat on the bench until 7 rb's went on IR then lets see it
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