The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2009, 12:15 AM   #26
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan11 View Post
As we have seen, McD has no issue at all with pissing off the Bronco Nation.

Popps said the magic word here...ruthless. A trait no doubt, he learned from his mentor.
...his mentor who has won 3 of 4 NFL title bouts this decade. I find it amazing that when it comes to players, you guys don't care if they come from Penn State or the State Pen...but when it comes to coaching, being politically correct and honorable is the first thing you look for.

I don't care as long as they win games...the hows and whys can be debated by the other 31 teams that didn't win it all.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:16 AM   #27
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,436

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
I truly believe he's had chances this year, and hasn't done much with them. Hopefully he'll get more. We could use another hammer, for sure.
You truly believe that 4 carries qualifies as having had chances this year?
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:21 AM   #28
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
How is it that Hillis was able to perform in Shanahan's offense if he's so stupid? Shanahan's scheme isn't exactly green eggs and ham.
That what makes his absence from the playing field so vexing.....but I'm dure if he was the best option available, he'd be starting....or at least getting some time in.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:22 AM   #29
errand
Ring of Famer
 
errand's Avatar
 
Forgot more than you'll ever know

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Western NC mountains
Posts: 17,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by watermock View Post
It was Popps calling for Hillis to start and draft front 7.

Morono scored less and fumbled more, and was drafted 200 places higher.

Alot of rookies have had problems holding onto the ball early in their careers. But the bottom line is this...Moreno is head and shoulders above Hillis in the talent dept....which explains him being drafted in the first round, 200 places higher.
errand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:33 AM   #30
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
You truly believe that 4 carries qualifies as having had chances this year?
He's apparently had problems on special teams... and depending on what you want to believe, things go back to training camp.

A better question is... why would McDaniels and Shanahan both purposely choose to sabotage their own teams?

There IS a reason he's not playing. I can't tell you what it is, but do you think that McDaniels just has no ability to evaluate talent? Shanahan? Turner?

It's no accident that he's got 4 carries. McDaniels has shown no bias of any sort. He starts guys that "do their job."

Why does Hillis only have 4 carries?

That's where we need to start.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:33 AM   #31
Killericon
Front 7, Please
 
Killericon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Alberta
Posts: 7,653

Adopt-a-Bronco:
watermock
Default

It's Mike Bell all over again. Flashes of brilliance one season, invisible the next, gone the one after that.
Killericon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:36 AM   #32
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,436

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
McDaniels has shown no bias of any sort.
*scoff*

Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:40 AM   #33
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,436

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

I know I'm flirting with being called Anti-McDaniels, but I'd feel the same way if I watched a rookie pissing down his leg while a five tool player sat on the bench under Shanahan. We're on a four game skid right now, and the shortcomings in our running game play no small part in that. It's true that the oline bears some blame, but that excuse only goes so far when you consider what Hillis got out of nearly the same guys during his rookie campaign.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:41 AM   #34
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
*scoff*

Compare September game logs, and then tell that to Correll Buckhalter.
Buckhalter missed time with injury. He's averaging over 5 ypc. He's also clearly a guy that needs to be used conservatively.

He's taken first-drive snaps on many occasion.

I must be missing the problem?
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:44 AM   #35
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,436

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

The problem is that our lead runningback is a two down guy at this point, but he keeps getting third down and short yardage carries.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:44 AM   #36
Popps
TEAM FIRST.
 
Popps's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 29,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I know I'm flirting with being called Anti-McDaniels, but I'd feel the same way if I watched a rookie pissing down his leg while a five tool player sat on the bench under Shanahan. We're on a four game skid right now, and the shortcomings in our running game play no small part in that. It's true that the oline bears some blame, but that excuse only goes so far when you consider what Hillis got out of nearly the same guys during his rookie campaign.
Well, we're running a different running scheme, for one. Like that or not, that's how it's going to be. We're moving towards a power-running attack, and as someone else pointed out, that's likely because it works in the playoffs. (Once you're personnel is correct.)

So, there's a question as to whether or not Hillis was the beneficiary of a zone scheme or not. I really don't know.

But, again... you said it yourself. Hillis has FOUR carries.

That's not a accident, it's a statement.

If there's one thing I think we'd all agree about McDaniels, it's that he'd start his mother in law at RB if she helped the team win.

Four carries.

There's a reason for that. I'm not saying I know what it is... but there IS a reason.
Popps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:54 AM   #37
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,436

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

I don't buy it. Moreno has earned nothing at this point, and he's already spent his benefit of a doubt with his fumblitis. There's no doubt that Hillis can help this team given what we all know about what he can offer (5 tools) and what we're getting out of our running game at this point.

Also, if we're running a power running attack, then why are we starting a guy with Tatum Bell's measurables, and not the 250lb power runner?

I think you're discounting pride. We all know that Hillis can help this team win games. We've witnessed it already in full glory. You're absolutely right though: Hillis only has four carries. Not enough to really evaluate anything, but still enough to manage 50% of our starting rookie's scoring production. I think you're discounting pride. Maybe that's not it, but whatever it is, it certainly isn't that our rookie is showing himself to be head and shoulders ahead of anyone else. So we're left to take wild guesses.

Last edited by Taco John; 11-26-2009 at 12:58 AM..
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 12:57 AM   #38
Taco John
24/7 Broncos
 
Taco John's Avatar
 
All Hail King Midas

Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 50,436

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Peyton Manning
Default

I'm out. Got Disneyland in the morning.

Good discussion. Can't wait to see what happens Thursday night.
Taco John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:09 AM   #39
Blart
I'm gay for the Broncos!
 
Blart's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,910

Adopt-a-Bronco:
all @ same time
Default

Did you guys know that he's white?
Blart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:15 AM   #40
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,470
Default

I'd do him.

Wait...what are we talking about?

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:21 AM   #41
bpc
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
 
bpc's Avatar
 
1 sword keeps another in the sheath

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 13,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
TJ Ward
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
You truly believe that 4 carries qualifies as having had chances this year?
LMAO. Thank you for saving me the time looking that one up.

He's playing HB. It's not rocket science.

McDaniels just wants his boy in the game to make his draft class look better. That's basically it.

Personally, I hope Hillis is let go so he can sign on with a team like New Orleans and he'll just get to abuse the league through the air and rushing the ball. Then we'll be talking about another Bronco player that could have been.

Sigh, whatever.

I hope we win tomorrow dammit.
bpc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:53 AM   #42
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killericon View Post
It's Mike Bell all over again. Flashes of brilliance one season, invisible the next, gone the one after that.
And now Mike Bell turns up as a valuable weapon on an undefeated team.

Bell is having a nice year....514 yards (4.5 ypc) and 4 TDs in a part time role.
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 01:54 AM   #43
SouthStndJunkie
Ring of Famer
 
SouthStndJunkie's Avatar
 
Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman

Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 16,077
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
I'd do him.

Wait...what are we talking about?

I think he looks more like a top man....
SouthStndJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 02:13 AM   #44
Hulamau
Polynesian Paralysis
 
Hulamau's Avatar
 
In the Pocket

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hulaville and Sedona
Posts: 9,020

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Yea, it's tough for me to believe... but it could happen. He wouldn't be the first guy with physical gifts that couldn't execute them properly.

Who knows how accurate any of this is, but at a certain point... you have to look for reasons.

McDaniels made a 1st round pick inactive last week, showing that (obviously) he's got no agenda of making his draft picks appear to be something they're not. He's starting plenty of Shanahan guys. He's clearly a guy who will start the player that gives him the best chance of winning. I'd say he's probably pretty ruthless in that regard.

So, when you look at a guy with Hillis' ability... and he's not receiving playing time, you have to wonder if some of this stuff carries weight.
Interesting article I've always liked Hillis and wished him well, and you can never really judge a book by its cover, but often times his expression conveys a good 'ole boy who looks to be a few eggs short of a dozen.

Though in fairness, the same can be said for probably 50% of the NFL :-) Some coaches included ....

Last edited by Hulamau; 11-26-2009 at 02:15 AM..
Hulamau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 02:36 AM   #45
Gort
Ring of Famer
 
Go Broncos!

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,410
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
Hillis’s SIGMA test results raise several concerns. The approach he took to learning and preparation in college produced a personal belief that he was not able to consistently execute his responsibilities in games. There are strong indications that he needs to take more personal responsibility for learning what he needs to know. His coaches should make him execute, again and again, his responsibilities in game-like time constraints. During the off-season, pre-season, and practice, he will sometimes give less than his best effort and will let up when he sees an opportunity to do so. As a result, Hillis has not always been able to meet the challenges placed in front of him by his coaches. There were times when Hillis thought he came up short of meeting his own and his coaches’ expectations. He will be concerned about the kind of system he may be placed in and whether he can be successful and meet everyone’s requirements and demands. Hillis will tend to worry that he is not as prepared as he should be going into games. This self-doubt does not speak well for his chances of advancing and mastering his position requirements at the next level. Hillis is usually content to rely heavily on his natural abilities to get by and believes that his past coaches have had little impact on his performance. He thinks that he knows best and is less likely to listen to coaches’ advice and instructions and instead will try to play the game his own way. When things are not going well for him, Hillis will be openly critical and question his coaches and his teammates.
sounds like something they might have written about John Riggins 40 years ago. and he only ended up in the HOF.

McD needs to get Hillis some carries. he's a playmaker and we need somebody to carry on the Mile High Salute tradition. if he can't learn the whole playbook, then give him 15-20 plays to learn and use him for those. it's not rocket science.
Gort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 03:29 AM   #46
fontaine
Ring of Famer
 
fontaine's Avatar
 
Go John Manning!

Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,044
Default

The only reason I can think of is that McDaniels has setup this offense in the first half of the season for the short passing game.

When we were executing well on offense it was distributing the all to different receivers and Moreno and Buck are much better pass catchers than Hillis.

That being said, Moreno's fumbling issue and Buckhalter's knee injury makes me believe that we do need a punishing runner that can run inside in Hillis.

The bigger problem though, has been that we've been behind so often that past few weeks that McDaniels has just abandoned the running game in the 2nd half so no RB is getting much work then.
fontaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 05:04 AM   #47
HorseHead
Ring of Famer
 
HorseHead's Avatar
 
Stay thirsty my friends..

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,395

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Bay Bay
Default

Here's the ball..run that way...you don't have to be Stephen Hawking to figure it out...

Looking at TJ's video, I got depressed...great...i'm going to drink today...
HorseHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 05:40 AM   #48
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,722
Default

Popps are reading that analysis wrong. That doesn't indicate that he stupid but rather he needs have hands on learning approach vs. visual one on the white board approach that most coach use. There is also a lot of speculation in that "report" without evidence and I have strange feeling that whoever did it did from 200 miles away and not with the subject.

Turner and Shanahan didn't insert him into the line up, because they wanted him to play FB role which held different responsibilities and roles in that offense.
elsid13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 06:01 AM   #49
Broncos_OTM
Dropping bombs from 5280
 
Broncos_OTM's Avatar
 
Broncos Over All

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,351

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
Hillis, a guy who was thrown into the fire last year when all of our RB's went down, and to perform the way he did in such a short notice not only was remarkable, but blows this circulating BS out of the water.
This is the most ignorant crap I've heard in a while.
The guy is not stupid. McD brought his "own" guys to carry the ball for him; C-Buck, Lamont Jordan, and Moreno who he got in the draft.
That made Hillis the odd man out.
Quit trying to speculate and read into BS stories that not me, and not you know anything about what really is going on.
People are trying to get into Hillis head to say stuff like, Hillis thinks this, Hillis thinkls that, baloney. Who does really know what he's thinking?
I just want Hillis to be given a chance to play a whole freaking game solid.
A considerable playing time and let him loose.
I guarantee you that if that was to happen, all of this crap being talked about will change right quick.
There will be a lot of new dumbasses born that day...
that is why hillis was active last week and jordan wasnt...Another thing was that Moreno was drafted in the first of course he is going to see a heavy load of action buck is a established vet with injury concerns but is a great number two.. if he can stay healthy.

I am a tad bit concerned with Moreno and his fumbles but he has got tattooed to give up the ball its not like he doesnt carry the ball right. just some damn good hits
Broncos_OTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2009, 06:03 AM   #50
Broncos_OTM
Dropping bombs from 5280
 
Broncos_OTM's Avatar
 
Broncos Over All

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,351

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
Popps are reading that analysis wrong. That doesn't indicate that he stupid but rather he needs have hands on learning approach vs. visual one on the white board approach that most coach use. There is also a lot of speculation in that "report" without evidence and I have strange feeling that whoever did it did from 200 miles away and not with the subject.

Turner and Shanahan didn't insert him into the line up, because they wanted him to play FB role which held different responsibilities and roles in that offense.
say what, only in english this time
Broncos_OTM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Denver Broncos