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Old 11-30-2009, 01:59 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by dragster69 View Post
Moreno, a 1st round pick yet to break 100 yards rushing?
That's not what I call getting contribution. What you think?

Let me know when Moreno breaks 100 yards. It may well be this Sunday when we play a lame KC team.
Maybe not.
11 games into the season and all he has to show for is not a single 100-yard game and only 4 TD's and 4 fumbles. Don't make me laugh!
The guy is a dud. He's not an impact player, is he?
He's only had 20+ carries in only two games...in them he had 90 and 88 yards. No it's not 100 but then again he's been close both times he gotten 20 carries or more. He's also shared carries with Buckhalter as well.

However he's also got 265 yards on his last 47 carries...a 5.6 yards per carry average...that's also 88 yards a game on average the last 3 games. This kid is a complete back and will, barring injury, be a major contributor to our team's success.

I find amazing that when Mike replaced Jake, who had not only led us to the playoff 3 consecutive seasons and an AFC title game appearance, and was 7-4 at the time....the move was appaluded as it was time to pass the torch and let's see what the kid could do.

Now, when the future is being given the lion's share of reps at RB, it's McDaniels is an a-hole holding back the next John Riggins

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Old 11-30-2009, 02:03 PM   #302
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He wasn't drafted or brought in to be a starting running back. He's a fullback by trade, which was also the position he played in college.

Why would you knock him for not winning the RB position last year when Denver had no intentions of putting him there until the injuries forced their hand?
Shannon Sharpe wasn't a TE coming outta college...he was a WR. Mike didn't seem to be a problem playing him.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:14 PM   #303
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Shannon Sharpe wasn't a TE coming outta college...he was a WR. Mike didn't seem to be a problem playing him.
Sharpe played sparingly during his first two seasons in the NFL (1990-91). He didn't breakout at the tight end position until 1992, his third year in the league.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:29 PM   #304
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H
I find amazing that when Mike replaced Jake, who had not only led us to the playoff 3 consecutive seasons and an AFC title game appearance, and was 7-4 at the time....the move was appaluded as it was time to pass the torch and let's see what the kid could do.

Now, when the future is being given the lion's share of reps at RB, it's McDaniels is an a-hole holding back the next John Riggins


.

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Old 11-30-2009, 02:31 PM   #305
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He's only had 20+ carries in only two games...in them he had 90 and 88 yards. No it's not 100 but then again he's been close both times he gotten 20 carries or more. He's also shared carries with Buckhalter as well.

However he's also got 265 yards on his last 47 carries...a 5.6 yards per carry average...that's also 88 yards a game on average the last 3 games. This kid is a complete back and will, barring injury, be a major contributor to our team's success.

I find amazing that when Mike replaced Jake, who had not only led us to the playoff 3 consecutive seasons and an AFC title game appearance, and was 7-4 at the time....the move was appaluded as it was time to pass the torch and let's see what the kid could do.

Now, when the future is being given the lion's share of reps at RB, it's McDaniels is an a-hole holding back the next John Riggins

.
wow...that was a terrible comparison.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:42 PM   #306
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Welcome to the Orange Mane.
exactly.....this place could argue the importance of toilet paper
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:43 PM   #307
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I find amazing that when Mike replaced Jake, who had not only led us to the playoff 3 consecutive seasons and an AFC title game appearance, and was 7-4 at the time....the move was appaluded as it was time to pass the torch and let's see what the kid could do.

Now, when the future is being given the lion's share of reps at RB, it's McDaniels is an a-hole holding back the next John Riggins

.
When Mike replaced Jake, he was playing like absolute garbage, and even the most ardent Plummer supporters on the site were resigned to the fact that Jake had played his way out of a job on that Thanksgiving night.

The reason for the Hillis support right now is because Moreno has come up short in key situations - particularly third down and goal line situations. This last two weeks, however, Moreno has shown that he can be a work horse. Which is good. We need a work horse. I'm not convinced yet that he's a three down back, and can be consistently relied on in short yardage situations where he's asked to run through traffic. I'm not saying he can't turn into that kind of back. Perhaps adding 10 pounds to his frame would make him that.

Moreno is sort of a tweener. He doesn't seem to have the speed to break away for the huge gains, and he doesn't have the bulk to move the line or be reliable in traffic. What he does seem to have is above average field vision, and with it is able to break of moderate runs. It's not very exciting, but I think so long as our defense is performing and our quarterback is keeping his INT's down, it will be "ok" for us. But as soon as the other two pieces start to falter, then I think the effectiveness of Moreno really comes into question - at least for this season.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:44 PM   #308
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When Mike replaced Jake, he was playing like absolute garbage, and even the most ardent Plummer supporters on the site were resigned to the fact that Jake had played his way out of a job on that Thanksgiving night.

The reason for the Hillis support right now is because Moreno has come up short in key situations - particularly third down and goal line situations. This last two weeks, however, Moreno has shown that he can be a work horse. Which is good. We need a work horse. I'm not convinced yet that he's a three down back, and can be consistently relied on in short yardage situations where he's asked to run through traffic. I'm not saying he can't turn into that kind of back. Perhaps adding 10 pounds to his frame would make him that.

Moreno is sort of a tweener. He doesn't seem to have the speed to break away for the huge gains, and he doesn't have the bulk to move the line or be reliable in traffic. What he does seem to have is above average field vision, and with it is able to break of moderate runs. It's not very exciting, but I think so long as our defense is performing and our quarterback is keeping his INT's down, it will be "ok" for us. But as soon as the other two pieces start to falter, then I think the effectiveness of Moreno really comes into question - at least for this season.
that got me excited because it reminded me of Terell Davis
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:50 PM   #309
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that got me excited because it reminded me of Terell Davis
For what it's worth, I think Moreno would probably look a lot better in a ZBS/cutback rushing system. I'm not sold on the idea that he's great for a Erhardt-Perkins offense. At least not at his current playing weight. Add another 10-15 lbs. and it might be a different story - though only if the fumblitis goes away.

I think McDaniels probably recognizes this, and I think that this upcoming offseason, we're going to see a lot of stories about Moreno adding weight to his frame. I guess we'll see.

Last edited by Taco John; 11-30-2009 at 02:52 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:57 PM   #310
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I was just about to say the same sort of thing TJ. But I'm not sure how he'll run with the added weight. He does seem at his best when given a choice to cut back in traffic picking his way using patience and taking what is given.

He's not going to dictate anything and surely not going to outrun most people but he does a nice job 'working' the blocks. I wish he had better hands though.

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Old 11-30-2009, 03:00 PM   #311
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For what it's worth, I think Moreno would probably look a lot better in a ZBS/cutback rushing system. I'm not sold on the idea that he's great for a Erhardt-Perkins offense. At least not at his current playing weight. Add another 10-15 lbs. and it might be a different story - though only if the fumblitis goes away.

I think McDaniels probably recognizes this, and I think that this upcoming offseason, we're going to see a lot of stories about Moreno adding weight to his frame. I guess we'll see.
I'm not really worried about the fumbling problem...happy it happened now and not at a more crucial part of his career....plus, with the right attention to detail and coaching anybody can get rid of that problem...Tiki Barber comes to mind

I agree about the cutback running system in order to take advantage of his vision...but he seems to be grasping the current system better too...all in all, I think the signs are good for this pick and I don't know what the hullaboo is about
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:03 PM   #312
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For what it's worth, I think Moreno would probably look a lot better in a ZBS/cutback rushing system. I'm not sold on the idea that he's great for a Erhardt-Perkins offense. At least not at his current playing weight. Add another 10-15 lbs. and it might be a different story - though only if the fumblitis goes away..
Emimitt Smith was 5'9", 215. Moreno is 5'11", 215.



Yea, look how tiny and frail he looks, huh?


As for fumbles, he's lost the ball 4 times. One was absolutely not a fumble, and a fluke reaching for a score. The other was Ed Reed being shot out of a cannon. So, he's got 2 fumbles through 11 games that you could possibly pin on him not taking care of the ball properly.


Again, Taco... this is just another one of your smear campaigns that's going to wind up looking pretty funny in a year or so. (See "Gutless," etc.)

Why you've chosen to go after this kid is anyone's guess, but it'll be great to see you back-track when he's a top performer.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:05 PM   #313
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This thread is pretty funny. Retitle it - "Come in here if you want a fight!"
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:07 PM   #314
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Emimitt Smith was 5'9", 215. Moreno is 5'11", 215.



Yea, look how tiny and frail he looks, huh?

.
Moreno has huge guns! Popps got it right. The only guy with bigger arms than Moreno on the team is maybe BDawk!

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Old 11-30-2009, 03:10 PM   #315
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This thread is pretty funny. Retitle it - "Come in here if you want a fight!"
That would be most every thread on the page! so just label them "Come in if you wan a fight 1,2,3,4,5 etc"!
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:10 PM   #316
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Yea, if he could just put some muscle on... he'd be O.K..

Poor little thing.


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Old 11-30-2009, 03:18 PM   #317
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Yea, if he could just put some muscle on... he'd be O.K..

Poor little thing.


Amen! He is a skinny little runt! 5'11 and only 215 what a whimp!

Actually in all fairness to the he's too small crowd the numbers are deceptive if you never saw the guy's build! Hell I'm 6'2 and 210 and I don't look anything close to what Moreno does...lmao! Of course I'm taller and 15 of that is in my GUT!! LMAO
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:19 PM   #318
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Emimitt Smith was 5'9", 215. Moreno is 5'11", 215.



Yea, look how tiny and frail he looks, huh?


As for fumbles, he's lost the ball 4 times. One was absolutely not a fumble, and a fluke reaching for a score. The other was Ed Reed being shot out of a cannon. So, he's got 2 fumbles through 11 games that you could possibly pin on him not taking care of the ball properly.


Again, Taco... this is just another one of your smear campaigns that's going to wind up looking pretty funny in a year or so. (See "Gutless," etc.)

Why you've chosen to go after this kid is anyone's guess, but it'll be great to see you back-track when he's a top performer.
The reason I've "chosen to go after this kid" is because he's lacked consistency, and shown a tendancy to fumble in crucial situations, and because during our four game skid, he was either invisible or proved to be a liability.

If he ever becomes a top performer, I won't need to do any backtracking. Moreno has earned the criticism he's taking for this season. His production problems this season doesn't mean he can't put it together for next season (or even for the rest of this season, for that matter). If he starts upping his consistency, I won't have any crow to eat, but I will have congratulations for him for his improvement. This last week, in particular, he's shown marked improvement. But finding the endzone with more consistency, and taking care of the ball is what he'll need to show in order to earn more faith from me.

Last edited by Taco John; 11-30-2009 at 03:23 PM..
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:21 PM   #319
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Popps makes a good point though. He does look like he's got about as much muscle on that frame as it can contain. I wonder why he's so soft at the point of attack then. Maybe adding a FB to run in front of him would make a difference.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:24 PM   #320
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It's 3rd and goal on the 2 yard line.

Which RB do you want to get the ball?
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:27 PM   #321
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Now, when the future is being given the lion's share of reps at RB, it's McDaniels is an a-hole holding back the next John Riggins

.
Errand, Hillis should have been given ample opportunity to compete and contribute with the first team Offense. McD didn't really give Peyton that opportunity due to assigning him to special teams.

Hopefully Peyton gets a break within the last 5 games or playoffs (should we make the playoffs).

If not, I wouldn't be surprised if Hillis request a meeting w/ McDaniels and ask for his release and catch on with another team that believe he's more than just a special teams player.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:29 PM   #322
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Popps makes a good point though. He does look like he's got about as much muscle on that frame as it can contain. I wonder why he's so soft at the point of attack then. Maybe adding a FB to run in front of him would make a difference.
I think Moreno's "softness" at the POA is due to Freshman hesitation not being soft or unwilling to stuff it up in the middle. The guy has played through injury and runs hard when he finally decides to hit the hole. The Giants game he was a beast and the more ZB run plays really helped him too.

Also one of the reasons rookies don't play as much all three downs in the NFL is because the p[ass protection is tough to pick up right away..Moreno has shined in pass blocking and that should also be taken into the big picture!
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:32 PM   #323
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It's 3rd and goal on the 2 yard line.

Which RB do you want to get the ball?
what is the blocking scheme? Hillis is a battering ram when he has the work, and was a beast for us last year on short yardage. ZBS helps theme both who have a nose for the hole. That having been said Moreno is really starting to come on strong and has gotten the reps.
Was that a convoluted enough reply?
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:34 PM   #324
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It's 3rd and goal on the 2 yard line.

Which RB do you want to get the ball?
Peyton Hillis! Nothing against Moreno.....but Hillis is the more powerful RB on the Broncos roster.

Also, McD isn't using Moreno in a scheme that would allow the rookie to be most effective and electrifying---and that would be to run Moreno from the
I-formation and run behind a lead blocking FB.

Anyone recall the 52 yard run Moreno ripped off one or two games ago! Guess what, Moreno made his longest run in his career b/c Larson as the FB threw the lead block that opened up the hole for Moreno to exploit.

Who knows Moreno would be on his way to rookie of the year if McD allowed him to run out of the I-formation with good lead blocking FB and more zone blocking schemes.
Just saying.
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Old 11-30-2009, 03:38 PM   #325
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I think Moreno's "softness" at the POA is due to Freshman hesitation not being soft or unwilling to stuff it up in the middle. The guy has played through injury and runs hard when he finally decides to hit the hole. The Giants game he was a beast and the more ZB run plays really helped him too.

Also one of the reasons rookies don't play as much all three downs in the NFL is because the p[ass protection is tough to pick up right away..Moreno has shined in pass blocking and that should also be taken into the big picture!
The only thing missing for Moreno is a lead blocking FB to take on the first defender in the hole and allow the rookie to exploit the seam/alley that could result with behind a FB. Larsen proved as a lead blocking FB he can open holes for Moreno to exploit.
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