From Schefter's Blog-I wish we had both 1st rounders in 2010 - The Orange Mane

Denver724 · 11-17-2009, 06:54 AM

Q: I am really concerned about the state of the Chicago Bears not just now but also for the next several years. You win the game in trenches, yet their O- and D-lines are mediocre thanks to Jerry Angelo, who has neglected drafting O-line for years. Instead, he gives away draft picks for mediocre players and drafts players who can't even contribute and sit on the bench instead. I always felt that the way their ownership has done business is being reflected in the product on the field right now. Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo are just average football people. Please give your honest assessment of this franchise good or bad.

--Steven (Yokosuka, Japan)

A: Here's what concerns me, Steven: No. 1, Jay Cutler looks as if he has any number of issues to work through, as a player and a person. He's good enough and young enough that he certainly can. But there's a lot of work to be done there. Also, not only did the Bears give up a first-round pick in the upcoming draft for Cutler, in what will be one of the best drafts in years, they also gave up their second-round pick for defensive end Gaines Adams. Now, in this great draft, the Bears are not scheduled to pick until Round 3. And when the offensive line is as weak as you and others say, and there is no big wide receiver to get the football to, there are some questions about how long it might take the Bears to improve.

Beantown Bronco · 11-17-2009, 06:58 AM

I'll never understand how people can say things like this with a straight face. It's just as likely that next year's draft will suck as it will be great. Nobody really knows. Sure, there are lots of big names, but they could all easily bust.

Wait until at least 2 or 3 years AFTER the draft before telling me the draft was deep or shallow, etc.

Rulon Velvet Jones · 11-17-2009, 06:59 AM

Beantown's right. There are few sure things in the draft.

TonyR · 11-17-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I'll never understand how people can say things like this with a straight face.

Well, you're focusing on the smaller point and neglecting the larger one. Regardless of the quality of the 2010 draft the Bears don't have enough high picks to improve, and they have a lot of needs.

spdirty · 11-17-2009, 07:22 AM

I hope Alphonso starts looking like a first rounder soon.

Traveler · 11-17-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdirty

I hope Alphonso starts looking like a first rounder soon.

You mean 2nd rounder.

ohiobronco2 · 11-17-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

You mean 2nd rounder.

Well, since we gave up a first for him, I'm guessing he means a first.

ColoradoDarin · 11-17-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveler

You mean 2nd rounder.

he also hopes that Brandon and DOOM start playing like a 4th rounders...

spdirty · 11-17-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColoradoDarin

he also hopes that Brandon and DOOM start playing like a 4th rounders...

no I dont.

Beantown Bronco · 11-17-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR

Well, you're focusing on the smaller point and neglecting the larger one. Regardless of the quality of the 2010 draft the Bears don't have enough high picks to improve, and they have a lot of needs.

I'm focusing on it because it was the part that was bolded and underlined. And it was the original poster's intent for us to focus on that part as well, hence his "I wish we (the Broncos) had both 1st rounders in 2010."

Though the larger point being made by the person who posted the question from Japan and Schefter in his response is true. There is never a good time to be missing both your first and second rounders, much less in a year where you have so many holes to fill.

TonyR · 11-17-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I'm focusing on it because it was the part that was bolded and underlined.

You're right, I shouldn't have directed this comment at you. I should have said "the focus" is wrong, not "your focus" is wrong. The larger point here is that the Bears will have difficulty improving through the draft without a 1 or a 2.

BroncoMan4ever · 11-17-2009, 01:01 PM

even if next season is a deep draft, which we won't know for sure for at least 3 years, the way Chicago is playing right now, we are going to get a pick around number 12, and more than likely McDaniels will trade back from that spot in order to pick up additional 2nd or 3rd round picks.

SportinOne · 11-17-2009, 01:13 PM

Interesting that he said that. College football has been pretty mediocre this year. If that is due to parity, okay, maybe I buy that. Like someone above said, time will tell.

Two 1sts or 1 1st, we can still get a quarterback. Whether that's in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, we'll get one.

Hercules Rockefeller · 11-17-2009, 01:25 PM

You don't look 3 years down the line to see whether or not it's a deep draft, you look at other years to see where comparable talent was drafted. 3 years is when you grade a team's draft.

Every junior that thinks they can sniff the 1st or 2nd round is going to declare this offseason. There's no rookie cap (there are going to be a lot of holdouts I'm sure) and as of now, there's a real possibility of either a lockout in 2011 or a having a rookie wage scale if there is a new CBA.

If Denver somehow ended up with a Top 10 pick, this would the year to try to move to the bottom half of the 1st and acquire some more picks.

Atwater His Ass · 11-17-2009, 01:30 PM

The draft is a crapshoot. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is either a) getting paid lots of cash to do so or b) is and idiot. b does not mutually exclude a.

NFLBRONCO · 11-17-2009, 01:30 PM

I still wished McD would have stockpiled more picks. I know that doesn't guarantee success it would just us ammo to get each player we really wanted. Esp with all the needs we have right now and FA is so expensive for a quality players.

Who knows maybe McD will shop some of our best players to aquire more picks as well.

ward63 · 11-17-2009, 01:34 PM

IF we get a top 10 through the bears, should we trade back?

Beantown Bronco · 11-17-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

You don't look 3 years down the line to see whether or not it's a deep draft, you look at other years to see where comparable talent was drafted. 3 years is when you grade a team's draft.

Just because 10 WRs get drafted in the first two rounds one year and only 5 gets drafted there the next year, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was a deep draft for WRs that first year. All it means is either more teams needed WRs that first year or more teams possibly incorrectly graded WRs with a first or second round grade that year.

What if three years later, you look back and grade the draft and realize that all 10 of those guys in that first draft busted and that the 5 that got taken the next year all became stars? Would the first be considered a "deep" draft for WRs? No way.

BroncoBuff · 11-17-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spdirty

no I dont.

You didn't have to actually say this.

Hercules Rockefeller · 11-17-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

Just because 10 WRs get drafted in the first two rounds one year and only 5 gets drafted there the next year, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was a deep draft for WRs that first year. All it means is either more teams needed WRs that first year or more teams possibly incorrectly graded WRs with a first or second round grade that year.

What if three years later, you look back and grade the draft and realize that all 10 of those guys in that first draft busted and that the 5 that got taken the next year all became stars? Would the first be considered a "deep" draft for WRs? No way.

You quote what I said, and then at no point address it. Schefter isn't saying it's a deep draft at a position or two. What he's saying is that overall, the talent level throughout is much deeper than previous seasons. The issue is equivalent talent and where it's drafted between the drafts you're comparing. Example, where would a Larry Fitzgerald-type prospect (drafted 3rd overall in '04) go in this draft?

We're not talking about bust rates either, we're talking about talent level at the time of the draft. There are phenomenally talented guys in every draft that are busts waiting to happen. That doesn't mean they aren't phenomenally talented guys. That's what Schefter is talking about when he says it's a deep draft, he's saying the talent level of the pool will be higher compared to other years.

And that's not something that just Schefter is saying, everyone has been saying this is going to be a deep draft since the owners opted out of the CBA.

jhns · 11-17-2009, 02:13 PM

I wish we had both picks also. I have always been against trading future firsts though, especially in a draft we already had two firsts in. How can McDaniels really think Smith is a better prospect than all the prospects that will be there next draft at our first when he didn't even think he was the best at our first, two times, in this draft? Not that it matters if they scout drafted talent as well as they scout FA talent. they hit on almost every FA this offseason.

Atwater His Ass · 11-17-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

You quote what I said, and then at no point address it. Schefter isn't saying it's a deep draft at a position or two. What he's saying is that overall, the talent level throughout is much deeper than previous seasons. The issue is equivalent talent and where it's drafted between the drafts you're comparing. Example, where would a Larry Fitzgerald-type prospect (drafted 3rd overall in '04) go in this draft?

We're not talking about bust rates either, we're talking about talent level at the time of the draft. There are phenomenally talented guys in every draft that are busts waiting to happen. That doesn't mean they aren't phenomenally talented guys. That's what Schefter is talking about when he says it's a deep draft, he's saying the talent level of the pool will be higher compared to other years.

And that's not something that just Schefter is saying, everyone has been saying this is going to be a deep draft since the owners opted out of the CBA.

All of this nice, but if it doesn't equate to performance on the football field, it doesn't mean squadoosh.

Hence why the draft in general and draft picks in particular are so over-rated and over-valued.

Beantown Bronco · 11-17-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

You quote what I said, and then at no point address it. Schefter isn't saying it's a deep draft at a position or two. What he's saying is that overall, the talent level throughout is much deeper than previous seasons. The issue is equivalent talent and where it's drafted between the drafts you're comparing. Example, where would a Larry Fitzgerald-type prospect (drafted 3rd overall in '04) go in this draft?

We're not talking about bust rates either, we're talking about talent level at the time of the draft. There are phenomenally talented guys in every draft that are busts waiting to happen. That doesn't mean they aren't phenomenally talented guys. That's what Schefter is talking about when he says it's a deep draft, he's saying the talent level of the pool will be higher compared to other years.

And that's not something that just Schefter is saying, everyone has been saying this is going to be a deep draft since the owners opted out of the CBA.

I don't care if a million experts say it, it doesn't make it true. It just means it's the popular thing to say (just ask the Broncos this year). And, when you have teams like Oakland making ridiculous first round picks every year, it's flat out impossible to predict from year to year where guys might get drafted if they came out one year earlier or later.

eddie mac · 11-17-2009, 02:23 PM

The thing is that given what happened in the offseason with Cutler and everything else McDaniels most likely thought he needed to win now so he got as many of his draft board on board when he had the opportunity, regardless of the utilisation of 2010 draft picks, because lets be honest a lot of us had him out the door in his first season cos the majority didn't see more than 5 or 6 wins this year and no-one knows for sure where Bowlen would've stood with that.

Coaches in the NFL dont get time to gel teams/players nowadays and you're only ever as good as your last game. We are actually now at a point in the season where heads are going to roll. Regardless of how this season now pans out for us, at least McDaniels has proven there's something there to work with after the excellent start and his job is safe.

Atwater His Ass · 11-17-2009, 02:25 PM

Nobody in their right mind had McD out of Denver after one year. You don't make changes that Pat has made and then go yet again in a different after a single year and do it all over again.

A lot of us thought McD may be gone in 3-4 years and that is still on the table.

This entire 1 year talk was more a result of McD digging his own grave with the Cutler fiasco and putting even more pressure on himself to win now by shortening the amount of slack / grace period people were willing to cut him being a first time head coach.

11-17-2009, 06:54 AM	#1
Denver724 Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,517	From Schefter's Blog-I wish we had both 1st rounders in 2010 Q: I am really concerned about the state of the Chicago Bears not just now but also for the next several years. You win the game in trenches, yet their O- and D-lines are mediocre thanks to Jerry Angelo, who has neglected drafting O-line for years. Instead, he gives away draft picks for mediocre players and drafts players who can't even contribute and sit on the bench instead. I always felt that the way their ownership has done business is being reflected in the product on the field right now. Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo are just average football people. Please give your honest assessment of this franchise good or bad. --Steven (Yokosuka, Japan) A: Here's what concerns me, Steven: No. 1, Jay Cutler looks as if he has any number of issues to work through, as a player and a person. He's good enough and young enough that he certainly can. But there's a lot of work to be done there. Also, not only did the Bears give up a first-round pick in the upcoming draft for Cutler, in what will be one of the best drafts in years, they also gave up their second-round pick for defensive end Gaines Adams. Now, in this great draft, the Bears are not scheduled to pick until Round 3. And when the offensive line is as weak as you and others say, and there is no big wide receiver to get the football to, there are some questions about how long it might take the Bears to improve.

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11-17-2009, 06:58 AM	#2
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,040 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	I'll never understand how people can say things like this with a straight face. It's just as likely that next year's draft will suck as it will be great. Nobody really knows. Sure, there are lots of big names, but they could all easily bust. Wait until at least 2 or 3 years AFTER the draft before telling me the draft was deep or shallow, etc.

11-17-2009, 06:59 AM	#3
Rulon Velvet Jones You're not really here. Tight Butthole Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,597 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rent-A-DC	Beantown's right. There are few sure things in the draft.

11-17-2009, 07:22 AM	#5
spdirty Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bailey Posts: 13,901 Adopt-a-Bronco: Koppen	I hope Alphonso starts looking like a first rounder soon.

11-17-2009, 01:01 PM	#12
BroncoMan4ever Ring of Famer Here to chew bubblegum and kick ass Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 11,567 Adopt-a-Bronco: VIRGIL GREEN!!!	even if next season is a deep draft, which we won't know for sure for at least 3 years, the way Chicago is playing right now, we are going to get a pick around number 12, and more than likely McDaniels will trade back from that spot in order to pick up additional 2nd or 3rd round picks.

11-17-2009, 01:13 PM	#13
SportinOne Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,422	Interesting that he said that. College football has been pretty mediocre this year. If that is due to parity, okay, maybe I buy that. Like someone above said, time will tell. Two 1sts or 1 1st, we can still get a quarterback. Whether that's in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, we'll get one.

11-17-2009, 01:25 PM	#14
Hercules Rockefeller Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 16,005 Adopt-a-Bronco: DJ Williams	You don't look 3 years down the line to see whether or not it's a deep draft, you look at other years to see where comparable talent was drafted. 3 years is when you grade a team's draft. Every junior that thinks they can sniff the 1st or 2nd round is going to declare this offseason. There's no rookie cap (there are going to be a lot of holdouts I'm sure) and as of now, there's a real possibility of either a lockout in 2011 or a having a rookie wage scale if there is a new CBA. If Denver somehow ended up with a Top 10 pick, this would the year to try to move to the bottom half of the 1st and acquire some more picks.

11-17-2009, 01:30 PM	#15
Atwater His Ass Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,360 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	The draft is a crapshoot. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is either a) getting paid lots of cash to do so or b) is and idiot. b does not mutually exclude a.

11-17-2009, 01:30 PM	#16
NFLBRONCO Ring of Famer Go Nuggets Go Lakers Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lafayette Colorado Posts: 7,385	I still wished McD would have stockpiled more picks. I know that doesn't guarantee success it would just us ammo to get each player we really wanted. Esp with all the needs we have right now and FA is so expensive for a quality players. Who knows maybe McD will shop some of our best players to aquire more picks as well.

11-17-2009, 01:34 PM	#17
ward63 The Burner Returner Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,160 Adopt-a-Bronco: Quincy Morgan	IF we get a top 10 through the bears, should we trade back?

11-17-2009, 02:13 PM	#21
jhns I'm all up in your face but you still can't C me! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Omaha Posts: 12,405 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I wish we had both picks also. I have always been against trading future firsts though, especially in a draft we already had two firsts in. How can McDaniels really think Smith is a better prospect than all the prospects that will be there next draft at our first when he didn't even think he was the best at our first, two times, in this draft? Not that it matters if they scout drafted talent as well as they scout FA talent. they hit on almost every FA this offseason.

11-17-2009, 02:23 PM	#24
eddie mac Ireland's No1 Bronco Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IRELAND Posts: 15,572 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith	The thing is that given what happened in the offseason with Cutler and everything else McDaniels most likely thought he needed to win now so he got as many of his draft board on board when he had the opportunity, regardless of the utilisation of 2010 draft picks, because lets be honest a lot of us had him out the door in his first season cos the majority didn't see more than 5 or 6 wins this year and no-one knows for sure where Bowlen would've stood with that. Coaches in the NFL dont get time to gel teams/players nowadays and you're only ever as good as your last game. We are actually now at a point in the season where heads are going to roll. Regardless of how this season now pans out for us, at least McDaniels has proven there's something there to work with after the excellent start and his job is safe.

11-17-2009, 02:25 PM	#25
Atwater His Ass Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,360 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Nobody in their right mind had McD out of Denver after one year. You don't make changes that Pat has made and then go yet again in a different after a single year and do it all over again. A lot of us thought McD may be gone in 3-4 years and that is still on the table. This entire 1 year talk was more a result of McD digging his own grave with the Cutler fiasco and putting even more pressure on himself to win now by shortening the amount of slack / grace period people were willing to cut him being a first time head coach.