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Old 11-09-2009, 08:58 PM   #1
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Default Why do people focus on Orton when our running game is so weak?

I don't understand why there is all this focus on Orton when our running game is so pathetic. We put 27 yards up against the Steelers - we needed at least 70. The running game looked so bad tonight that McDaniels absolutely gave up on them.

It's true, Orton didn't look all world out there. He's a Griese clone, and he's only going to be as good as the weakest link on our team. He can't throw on the run for crap, and his deep ball comes with a pot of gold at the end of it. But still: HE'S GETTING ZERO RUNNING SUPPORT.

Why is it so taboo to criticize the running game?
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:00 PM   #2
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Not many teams can run on Pitt. If they do, it's usually because they opened it up by passing and are running late in the game. We certainly weren't going to be able to run on them.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:00 PM   #3
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Both are bad...Orton is avg, can't create outside the pocket and throw accurately, and the running game isn't anywhere to be found. A lot of this is due to the safeties and linebackers not worried about Orton going over the top...So when people complain about orton, it has to do with the play calling and his ability to keep the defense honest.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:01 PM   #4
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It's not taboo. C'mon Taco.

We haven't been able to stretch a defense or run the ball effectively pretty much all season.

Moreno, Buckhalter and the OL have the ability to do so. The difference lies in the fact that Orton is not and will never be a game changing QB.

I think that was very evident with how Big Ben was able to rally his team, espcially after that drive they put together after the fumble return.

The reason people focus on Orton is because he just flat out doesn't have the talent to lead this team. The RB's and OL on this team have the ability, but I think it's more of Ortons faults by not being able to stretch the D deep that hurts the running game and not the other way around.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:02 PM   #5
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I think it's a lack of any threat of a pass going over 7 yds allowing the D to sit on routs bump at the line and defend a 3 step dump off.

If you can't keep the safites out of the box you will not be good at running the ball.

Also as stated in another thread. You are now power running with a line built for zone blocking.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:02 PM   #6
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he gave up because it wasnt working on them, at all. yea it sucks we had to put the game in ortons hands to have a shot at winning, but our oline is (supposedly) built for pass protection, with hamilton, weigmann and polumbus sucking, it doesnt matter either way. theres a LOT of flaws on this offense.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I don't understand why there is all this focus on Orton when our running game is so pathetic. We put 27 yards up against the Steelers - we needed at least 70. The running game looked so bad tonight that McDaniels absolutely gave up on them.

It's true, Orton didn't look all world out there. He's a Griese clone, and he's only going to be as good as the weakest link on our team. He can't throw on the run for crap, and his deep ball comes with a pot of gold at the end of it. But still: HE'S GETTING ZERO RUNNING SUPPORT.

Why is it so taboo to criticize the running game?
Great thread.

And even more pathetic, we didn't even really seem to try. I'm a little disappointed in the early returns on Moreno. He needs to be more decisive and hold onto the ball.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I don't understand why there is all this focus on Orton when our running game is so pathetic. We put 27 yards up against the Steelers - we needed at least 70. The running game looked so bad tonight that McDaniels absolutely gave up on them.

It's true, Orton didn't look all world out there. He's a Griese clone, and he's only going to be as good as the weakest link on our team. He can't throw on the run for crap, and his deep ball comes with a pot of gold at the end of it. But still: HE'S GETTING ZERO RUNNING SUPPORT.

Why is it so taboo to criticize the running game?
Is it taboo to call Moreno a bust yet?

Has he shown ANYTHING at all so far? ANYTHING to suggest he can be viable RB in the future? RBs take the least time to transition to the pros.... no use denying the obvious.... we wasted our high 1st...
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:04 PM   #9
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I dont think its taboo, i think its just natural for the public to criticize the QB. Its just one of those things we accept as normal, but really is kinda stupid.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:05 PM   #10
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Great thread.

And even more pathetic, we didn't even really seem to try. I'm a little disappointed in the early returns on Moreno. He needs to be more decisive and hold onto the ball.
I think Moreno will be fine. He obvisously has the ability but hasn't adjusted to the speed of the pro game yet.

Not everyone can be TD right out of the gate.

Biggest issue moving forward on this team is the play of the QB. It's not good enough and is holding this team back.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:06 PM   #11
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Orton Gets Nervous. If you make him move he plays absolutely terrible. The Run Game sucks the interior is terrible. Haynesworth is going to use hamilton to clean the orton out of the grass sunday.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:06 PM   #12
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It's not taboo. C'mon Taco.
Man, I get nothing but crap every time I mention it. Moreno is not a third down back. He's just not.

Maybe he will be someday, but right now, he's just not. He reminds me of Stephen Alexander. He looks like a lazy runner who doesn't have that "fall forward" instinct that picks up extra yards after contact.

He could end up with an impressive career, but right now, he's not giving us what we need.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:07 PM   #13
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I don't know what the "taboo" comment refers to. Right now, this is a hybrid team - neither fish nor fowl. When we play the top, physical defenses, the flaws come out. This first season is a gimme. Let's make the best of it and hopefully make the playoffs. Patience.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:08 PM   #14
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moreno. 5 carries for 3 yards. that's 5 wasted plays right there. and we only had 54 plays tonight on offense. rookie needs to ride the bench for awhile. he's not good.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:08 PM   #15
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Both are at fault. Ultimately we're gonna find that we have issues that need to be fixed at both positions. I know some of you won't agree with me, and I hope I'm wrong but Knowshon Moreno is not the solution to our running game. He may be a capable component but he won't be a guy that dominates games for us. He just doesn't have it. He's neither a speed nor a power back. Until he decides what he wants to be, he'll be a average back in the NFL. Personally, he needs to hit the gym, get stronger and turn into a solid 4 ypc back who can catch out of the backfield. He needs to do some squats and start hitting the hole with authority. Right now he looks like a power back who's all finesse.

Buckhalter is a nice story, hard worker, but he's had 2 or 3 ACL surgeries and he doesn't show power hitting the hole either.

I'm sure there are some issues with the OL, Hamilton in particular but we need more playmakers with the ball in their hand. Who gets the ball the most? QB's and HB's and we're average at best at those two positions.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:09 PM   #16
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Is it taboo to call Moreno a bust yet?

Has he shown ANYTHING at all so far? ANYTHING to suggest he can be viable RB in the future? RBs take the least time to transition to the pros.... no use denying the obvious.... we wasted our high 1st...

Someone said that he's leading the rookies in rushing so far this season. I haven't been able to confirm that yet, but if that's the case, I think it says more about how poor the rookie rushing class is than how great Moreno is.

I want to believe in the guy, but I get a pit in my stomach every time I see him in there on third down.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #17
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I just want to throw out there that we did play the #1 rushing defense in the league tonight.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #18
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I don't understand why there is all this focus on Orton when our running game is so pathetic. We put 27 yards up against the Steelers - we needed at least 70. The running game looked so bad tonight that McDaniels absolutely gave up on them.

It's true, Orton didn't look all world out there. He's a Griese clone, and he's only going to be as good as the weakest link on our team. He can't throw on the run for crap, and his deep ball comes with a pot of gold at the end of it. But still: HE'S GETTING ZERO RUNNING SUPPORT.

Why is it so taboo to criticize the running game?
I've been saying this all season long. The running game is far from where it needs to be. I've been a Bronco fan for too long not to realize how important the run game is. Heck , right now we cant even pick up a 1st down on 3rd and 1. We're like 0 for 15 right now. I sure miss the ZBS and gaining positive yards and break aways.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I don't understand why there is all this focus on Orton when our running game is so pathetic. We put 27 yards up against the Steelers - we needed at least 70. The running game looked so bad tonight that McDaniels absolutely gave up on them.

It's true, Orton didn't look all world out there. He's a Griese clone, and he's only going to be as good as the weakest link on our team. He can't throw on the run for crap, and his deep ball comes with a pot of gold at the end of it. But still: HE'S GETTING ZERO RUNNING SUPPORT.

Why is it so taboo to criticize the running game?
When they bring 8 in the box to stop Orton's dink and dunk and 4-yard passes, guess what?
They're also stopping the run.
The line is crowded to stop Orton's BS, and by doing so, they're also right there to stop the run.
Is a no-win situation for us.
When we show we can throw the ball deep, the line won't be as crowded and thus, we will be able to run the ball, until then, they're going to play us tight.
They're daring us to beat them with the dink and dunk, they're going to be covering 20 yards zone around the line, and they will kill our running game and passing game in one shot...
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #20
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we should also discuss the poor blocking our running backs have done.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:10 PM   #21
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Is it taboo to call Moreno a bust yet?

Has he shown ANYTHING at all so far? ANYTHING to suggest he can be viable RB in the future? RBs take the least time to transition to the pros.... no use denying the obvious.... we wasted our high 1st...
I think this is over the top. Sure we hoped for more at this point, but he'll get it figured out.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:11 PM   #22
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Man, I get nothing but crap every time I mention it. Moreno is not a third down back. He's just not.

Maybe he will be someday, but right now, he's just not. He reminds me of Stephen Alexander. He looks like a lazy runner who doesn't have that "fall forward" instinct that picks up extra yards after contact.

He could end up with an impressive career, but right now, he's not giving us what we need.
There is a big difference between Shaun Alexander and Knowshon Moreno. Alexander had a swagger within a short yardage situation. Knowshon thinks he's still running in college. He needs to change his approach RUNNING the football. It won't work at this level.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:11 PM   #23
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Is it taboo to call Moreno a bust yet?

Has he shown ANYTHING at all so far? ANYTHING to suggest he can be viable RB in the future? RBs take the least time to transition to the pros.... no use denying the obvious.... we wasted our high 1st...
Moreno is far from a bust. I just think Moreno would be much more effective running from the I-formation and having a lead FB in front of him. His running style is perfect for the zone blocking scheme with a lead FB taking out the first tackler.

Also, Orton is over thinking out there. He needs to go thru his progressions/reads and just make the dam throw. His WR's are open, Kyle just isn't pullling the trigger.

I'm telling everyone who will listen......the defense is getting warned down b/c the Offense can't move the ball and sustain drives to give the Defense a rest! It worked out okay the first 5 or 6 games. However, we can see the wheels are about to come off the defense.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:11 PM   #24
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I think it's a lack of any threat of a pass going over 7 yds allowing the D to sit on routs bump at the line and defend a 3 step dump off.

If you can't keep the safites out of the box you will not be good at running the ball.

Also as stated in another thread. You are now power running with a line built for zone blocking.
I was told we can't throw deep because we have no running game, allowing the safeties to sit deep and causing Orton to check down.

Are the safeties in the box or not? I'm leaning towards no.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:12 PM   #25
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Man, I get nothing but crap every time I mention it. Moreno is not a third down back. He's just not.

Maybe he will be someday, but right now, he's just not. He reminds me of Stephen Alexander. He looks like a lazy runner who doesn't have that "fall forward" instinct that picks up extra yards after contact.

He could end up with an impressive career, but right now, he's not giving us what we need.
He reminds me of Mike Bell when Mike played for Denver. I like him and see potential but he runs without patience. He slams into the back of his blockers and, as Gruden pointed out, doesn't block the blitzer well. That chop block attempt was pathetic.
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