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Old 11-09-2009, 08:42 PM   #1
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How much longer. If Kern and JMFW can go for sub-par play how long till Ben Goes. Teams are picking on him. I know he was the center of the Future but He is not playing like we were used too. The OL used to be the foundation of the Team but now can not get any push in the Run game and Orton lacks real time. Not that that really helped. He starts getting antsy around one thousand two.
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:44 AM   #2
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After watching the game, it pretty apparent that left hamstring that caused him to miss time at the beginning of the year, is still an issue. Hamilton is not bending enough to get under the DE/DT pads and isn't shuffling his feet in pass protection. With Hamilton if his techinque isn't good, then he struggles to be effective and that what we are seeing
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:56 AM   #3
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He's not the future since 2001. He's a converted center that has played on par with Nalen.

He's done.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:10 AM   #4
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His size plus going away from the ZBS already dictated his future to be short. But the way he's playing now could get him pulled right now.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
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His size plus going away from the ZBS already dictated his future to be short. But the way he's playing now could get him pulled right now.
This is the problem. Our OL is built for the ZBS. Since they are transitioning away from it, Hamilton and Wiegmann are getting steam rolled since they aren't the physical type need for McDaniels system. Losing Harris also hurts big time. I don't see Hamilton being on this team next season.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:32 AM   #6
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Again, then why not draft a stud OG early rather than some stiff TE?
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:39 AM   #7
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It probably wouldn't be such a problem if were were gradually transitioning like we all thought they would. We've just plain switched overnight to trap and pull blocking and thrown ZBS out the window. It's clear as day what's wrong here.

You have to play with the players you have. And the players on our O-line were built for moving and cutting.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:40 AM   #8
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We drafted Quinn and 2 other light OL, ione was cut. One is a center.

WTF?

When you look at our draft, it's a a joke!, considering we has THREE 1's

3 #1's.

Moreno, Ayers and Smith.

AND we had 2 #3''s.

Don't forget it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:42 AM   #9
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It probably wouldn't be such a problem if were were gradually transitioning like we all thought they would. We've just plain switched overnight to trap and pull blocking and thrown ZBS out the window. It's clear as day what's wrong here.

You have to play with the players you have. And the players on our O-line were built for moving and cutting.

I fully expect both Turner and Dennison to leave once shanny is hired.
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:46 AM   #10
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I agree.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:27 AM   #11
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Olsen is not a center and is like 305-310 lbs, so he has at least 20 pounds on Hamilton, so hardly light, not that facts seem too interesting to some.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watermock View Post
We drafted Quinn and 2 other light OL, ione was cut. One is a center.

WTF?

When you look at our draft, it's a a joke!, considering we has THREE 1's

3 #1's.

Moreno, Ayers and Smith.

AND we had 2 #3''s.

Don't forget it.
seriously quit being a god damn baby and harping on the quinn pick all day, who the **** cares if a pick we made isnt on the field right now, seriously. its one draft pick, we traded 2 3's for a 2 and a 4, calm the **** down and quit reverting to 3-13 preseason mock.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:31 AM   #13
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I hate Ben Hamilton at the moment, he looks like he is on skates. CUT HIM!
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:37 AM   #14
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fyi, kupers dad said ben hamiltons dad posts here anonymously.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:38 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda View Post
It probably wouldn't be such a problem if were were gradually transitioning like we all thought they would. We've just plain switched overnight to trap and pull blocking and thrown ZBS out the window. It's clear as day what's wrong here.

You have to play with the players you have. And the players on our O-line were built for moving and cutting.
McDaniels is installing his own offense and schemes. He's not going to play one way one year, then another way the next. Thats not how to build a program. He's had exactly one offseason to bring his own guys in, and you can't turn over a roster entirely in one year. I'm sure many more new faces will be here opening day 2010. It takes time to build a winning program. This isn't Madden where you can trade for all great players.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda View Post
It probably wouldn't be such a problem if were were gradually transitioning like we all thought they would. We've just plain switched overnight to trap and pull blocking and thrown ZBS out the window. It's clear as day what's wrong here.

You have to play with the players you have. And the players on our O-line were built for moving and cutting.
Pretty much. I've been saying for weeks that McDaniels only seems to revert to ZBS as a last resort when the running game clearly doesn't work. And even then it looks like he prefers to throw those short passes instead.

Orton wasn't forced into passing the ball 30+ times because we were behind, that only happened much later. Even in the first half we were exclusively passing the ball instead of running it when the game was close.

Why draft spend a high first and reach for another blocking TE when you're not going to run the ball? Just plain stupid by McDaniels here.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:47 AM   #17
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McDaniels is installing his own offense and schemes. He's not going to play one way one year, then another way the next. Thats not how to build a program. He's had exactly one offseason to bring his own guys in, and you can't turn over a roster entirely in one year. I'm sure many more new faces will be here opening day 2010. It takes time to build a winning program. This isn't Madden where you can trade for all great players.
Actually, McDaniels expressed a desire to do both zone blocking and conventional man blocking during the whole offseason. There was information that he wanted to do it in New England but didnt have the personnel for it. So, why he ignores the ZBS to this degree is puzzling.

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Old 11-10-2009, 05:48 AM   #18
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I was telling my buddy before the game that Hamilton will cost us at least a couple plays

my fave might be the 4th down penalty
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:49 AM   #19
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For such a student of the game I would think the fact that no system had produced a high quality running game as consistantly as the Shanahan/Gibbs ZBS would grab his attention. For such a student of the game I would think he would want to put his blockers and his running back in the best positions to succeed because as a student of the game he would recognize that being one dimensional on offense is a lead pipe lock to losing. And as such a student of the game he would recognize his OL personnel is best suited for a ZB system. As a student of the game...
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:52 AM   #20
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McDaniels is installing his own offense and schemes. He's not going to play one way one year, then another way the next. Thats not how to build a program. He's had exactly one offseason to bring his own guys in, and you can't turn over a roster entirely in one year. I'm sure many more new faces will be here opening day 2010. It takes time to build a winning program. This isn't Madden where you can trade for all great players.
Almost every team in the league plays some ZBS plays so, in short, you're pretty much wrong there.

Atlanta/Oakland went into the ZBS in one offseason and pretty much improved their running game tremendously so again, when it comes to the running game you're wrong there again.

Look everyone who knows anything about the Patriots offense knows that they would rather pass the ball short than run it. They'll run it also but it's not how their offense was built.

I like what McDaniels has done with our short passing game, I really do. But it's come at the cost of a much worse running game. It's not about the personnel, or turnover etc. It's about McDaniels calling the plays he wants to call.

He gets the credit (and rightly so) for improving Orton and parts of the D, just like he looks stupid making Orton pass the ball two times more than we run it, the past two weeks.

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Old 11-10-2009, 05:54 AM   #21
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I would like to seee Royal run more than these 5 yard patterns though. His speed means nothing if just running a short pattern right into defenders.
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:58 AM   #22
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...calm the **** down and quit reverting to 3-13 preseason mock.
He's in his glory. He's barely posted all season and after a couple of bad losses the gibberish is flowing again.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:02 AM   #23
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After watching the game, it pretty apparent that left hamstring that caused him to miss time at the beginning of the year, is still an issue. Hamilton is not bending enough to get under the DE/DT pads and isn't shuffling his feet in pass protection. With Hamilton if his techinque isn't good, then he struggles to be effective and that what we are seeing
A lot is really not making sense right now. What you say about Hamilton being limited by injury might make sense in terms of limiting what they can do in ZBS. But, on the other hand, you also have Seth Olsen who was drafted as a ZBS guy, which they apparently are/were high on.

Your observation actually makes a lot of sense in trying to reconcile why they would be ignoring the ZBS to the degree they have but then it raises the question, why is Hamilton still in there?
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:04 AM   #24
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And just on Hamilton, he didn't get down to 280lbs over night.

Why would any coach think he can succeed in the power blocking game instead of a ZBS where he's excelled every year in his career?

It's like asking Brian Dawkins to become a CB in man coverage.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:04 AM   #25
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Almost every team in the league plays some ZBS plays so, in short, you're pretty much wrong there.

Atlanta/Oakland went into the ZBS in one offseason and pretty much improved their running game tremendously so again, when it comes to the running game you're wrong there again.

Look everyone who knows anything about the Patriots offense knows that they would rather pass the ball short than run it. They'll run it also but it's not how their offense was built.

I like what McDaniels has done with our short passing game, I really do. But it's come at the cost of a much worse running game. It's not about the personnel, or turnover etc. It's about McDaniels calling the plays he wants to call.

He gets the credit (and rightly so) for improving Orton and parts of the D, just like he looks stupid making Orton pass the ball two times more than we run it, the past two weeks.
I never mentioned anything about any other teams, so you're wrong there.

I don't care what other teams run. Why do you?

McDaniels will have this line bulked up quite a bit before it's all said and done. Ultimately, his running offense will be something we aren't accustomed to seeing in Denver, and he's not going to compromise any vision he has for the short term. If he wants to run ZBS at times, so be it, but he's not going to run his offense like he's Mike Shanahan.

And I'm not sure why you even mentioned OAK in this conversation. I looked it up just to see, and they are ranked 26th in rushing offense, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with them.
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