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Old 11-08-2009, 08:24 AM   #1
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Default Broncos need quick strikes

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ron&id=4628977



"Monday Night Football" analyst Ron Jaworski says the Denver Broncos will have their hands full against the best defense in the league, that of the Pittsburgh Steelers:

In this week's matchup, we will see two outstanding defenses. To me, however, the Steelers clearly have the best one in the league. They have been together for a while, both players and coaches, and that familiarity produces great team defense. The Steelers have playmakers and role players, excellent schemes, and outstanding football talent.

The Steelers have top players at every level of the defense. Nose tackle Casey Hampton is the classic huge run-stuffer you need to run a good 3-4 defense. James Harrison is the most explosive linebacker I've ever seen. And safety Troy Polamalu, though injured, is simply a playmaker who uses his size and speed effectively.

To get anything done against the Steelers, Denver's offense will have to take some shots down the field. So far, Denver has not played that style. They have only 17 pass plays of 20 yards or more, and that ranks 19th in the league. They have the talent to play more explosively with wide receivers like Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal and Jabar Gaffney. Even TE Tony Scheffler can get down the field and make plays.

The Broncos simply have to try to manufacture a touchdown. They have to come out in a max-protect set, send two wide receivers down the field and see what happens. I don't see them going 80 yards in 12 plays too often against the Steelers. So far this year, the Steelers' defense has faced 73 drives by opponents, and only 11 have gone for more than 10 plays. The Steelers know how to get off the field, plain and simple. If the Broncos try to grind it out with the kind of short passes they've favored this season, it could be a long night.
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:26 AM   #2
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And this is exactly why I think we will surprise just about everyone in the NFL and draft CJ Spiller with our first round pick next year. I will agree with anyone that suggests the bigger need would be OG, DL, or even the Secondary. But the fact is we need another dynamic offensive threat and I'd love that to be Spiller! I just wonder if the success of Chris Johnson (who everyone thought was a 2nd rounder b/c of his size) will push Spiller up in front of where we will be picking.
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:31 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by McOSKIE!!! View Post
And this is exactly why I think we will surprise just about everyone in the NFL and draft CJ Spiller with our first round pick next year. I will agree with anyone that suggests the bigger need would be OG, DL, or even the Secondary. But the fact is we need another dynamic offensive threat and I'd love that to be Spiller! I just wonder if the success of Chris Johnson (who everyone thought was a 2nd rounder b/c of his size) will push Spiller up in front of where we will be picking.
I love Spiller, have since he was freshman, but he isn't the answer to the problem. The key to having aggressive offense is a QB that execute all the plays to all levels of the field. The question can Orton grew into that role or is he a placeholder until McDaniels finds his man.

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Old 11-08-2009, 10:42 AM   #4
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I love Spiller, have since he was freshman, but he isn't the answer to the problem. The key to have aggressive offense is a QB that execute all the plays to all levels of the field. The question can Orton grew into that role or is he a placeholder until McDaniels finds his man.
I like Orton, but he is a place holder. The thing with Orton is he can't extend the pocket and throw on the run well when the OLine is struggling to pass block. I think our best bet for a stud down the line is probably Colt McCoy. Great arm, super athletic and he has improved every single year. His production may vary from year to year but his physical attributes and leadership can not be questioned.

Love McCoy, Tebow and Bradford and think we will likely have a shot at any of those guys... but I'd rather have Spiller. Look at what Percy Harvin is doing for the Vikes (Harvin is the guy I said would be a beast mind you!) and Spiller is probably an even more dynamic weapon.

How would this suit you... Colt McCoy in the first and Noel Divine in the 2nd!?!

Not that I'm anxious for the draft, but I do enjoy looking ahead.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:00 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by McOSKIE!!! View Post
I like Orton, but he is a place holder. The thing with Orton is he can't extend the pocket and throw on the run well when the OLine is struggling to pass block. I think our best bet for a stud down the line is probably Colt McCoy. Great arm, super athletic and he has improved every single year. His production may vary from year to year but his physical attributes and leadership can not be questioned.

Love McCoy, Tebow and Bradford and think we will likely have a shot at any of those guys... but I'd rather have Spiller. Look at what Percy Harvin is doing for the Vikes (Harvin is the guy I said would be a beast mind you!) and Spiller is probably an even more dynamic weapon.

How would this suit you... Colt McCoy in the first and Noel Divine in the 2nd!?!

Not that I'm anxious for the draft, but I do enjoy looking ahead.
I hate McCoy, and think he going to struggle in the pros. While Divine is a late 2nd day pick that will be 3rd down back only (Which could work out like Kevin Faulk for us).

Right now the QB I like are

1. Locker (WAS) (out of our range unless CHI bombs) top 10 pick
2. Tim Hiller (WMU) - very quick release and smart QB
3. Ponder (FSU) - Smart QB, average arm but very good mobility
4. John Skelton (Fordman) has the physical ability to play in NFL, but it will take time. Plus Broncos Scouts are already looking at him
5. Sean Canfield (Oregon State) Flying under the radar but I think he could be rise after the combine.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:09 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
I love Spiller, have since he was freshman, but he isn't the answer to the problem. The key to having aggressive offense is a QB that execute all the plays to all levels of the field. The question can Orton grew into that role or is he a placeholder until McDaniels finds his man.
Disagree. We weren't really a big play offense last season either, contrary to popular opinion. We have talented offensive skill guys, but none are really quick strike guys. Royal is more quick than fast and averaged less than 10 yards a catch last season. Marshall is occasionally a good YAC guy but is no burner. We could use a guy who can really stretch a defense, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we picked Spiller. He can provide big plays running, receiving, and on special teams. Royal had the one great game returning against the Chargers, but he has largely been an unspectacular return man.
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Old 11-08-2009, 11:19 AM   #7
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Disagree. We weren't really a big play offense last season either, contrary to popular opinion. We have talented offensive skill guys, but none are really quick strike guys. Royal is more quick than fast and averaged less than 10 yards a catch last season. Marshall is occasionally a good YAC guy but is no burner. We could use a guy who can really stretch a defense, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we picked Spiller. He can provide big plays running, receiving, and on special teams. Royal had the one great game returning against the Chargers, but he has largely been an unspectacular return man.
I understand what the offense philosophy is (ball control) but at the same time to ensure that you can keep a defense honest you need to challenge them deep three to four times a game. I think that deep threat is going to be Kenny McKinley, once the game slow downs for him and Denver QB is willing to throw deep. You can also pick up guy like Jacoby Ford (CLEM) or Brandon Banks (K State) later in the draft if want ST PR/KR explosiveness. Beside I rather add potential play maker on the defense line in the first vs another running back.
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Old 11-08-2009, 05:10 PM   #8
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Sure Orton has his weakenesses but his shortcomings haven't stopped this team winning 6 our 7 games against top flite teams like Cincy/NE/Dallas.

What we need more than a quick strike passing game is an improved running that's going to make play action passing much more effective. Orton has improved every game and he's earned the benefit of the doubt with me.

The offense was always going to take a while to get set and I expect it will improve. The longer passes don't just happen, you need a lot of other things to happen before hand like a real threat with the running game, WRs getting open down the field and getting that one on one matchup and then you can talk about the QB lobbing the ball if he can get that kind of pass protection.

We're simply not there yet.
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Old 11-08-2009, 05:57 PM   #9
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Disagree. We weren't really a big play offense last season either, contrary to popular opinion. We have talented offensive skill guys, but none are really quick strike guys. Royal is more quick than fast and averaged less than 10 yards a catch last season. Marshall is occasionally a good YAC guy but is no burner. We could use a guy who can really stretch a defense, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we picked Spiller. He can provide big plays running, receiving, and on special teams. Royal had the one great game returning against the Chargers, but he has largely been an unspectacular return man.
WTF? Are you sure?
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:15 PM   #10
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Old 11-08-2009, 07:55 PM   #11
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"James Harrison is the most explosive linebacker I've ever seen."

C'mon, really. Is somone mabye a little too in love with the steelers?
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Old 11-08-2009, 08:21 PM   #12
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ive heard a bit about dan lefevour, anyone know anthing about him?
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Sure Orton has his weakenesses but his shortcomings haven't stopped this team winning 6 our 7 games against top flite teams like Cincy/NE/Dallas.

What we need more than a quick strike passing game is an improved running that's going to make play action passing much more effective. Orton has improved every game and he's earned the benefit of the doubt with me.

The offense was always going to take a while to get set and I expect it will improve. The longer passes don't just happen, you need a lot of other things to happen before hand like a real threat with the running game, WRs getting open down the field and getting that one on one matchup and then you can talk about the QB lobbing the ball if he can get that kind of pass protection.

We're simply not there yet.
Good take Fontaine, Orton has done far better than most anyone expected, and in the Ravens game the whole offense came out flat and still on the bye week. That wasn't just on him by any means. The Ravens were in Super Bowl or Bust mode that game too and shot their entire wad as expected as evidenced by their shellacking from Cincy.

Whether Orton is the long term answer we wont know until the end of the season. In the high of this fast start I think its easy to forget just how much CHANGE has happened here and how many new faces EVERYWHERE there is.

Josh and Mike have done a brilliant job of putting it together and producing a competitive tough football team in record time, but in reality it does take more time and likely adding a few more players in the offseason to fill any remaining holes and quality depth... Plus, most of all just allowing familiarity with each other and the new offensive and defensive systems to seep into unconscious innate reaction with the starters before this team is really mature with all the little things that make such a difference. They've done remarkable well so far in any event.

By the end of this year, I suspect Josh will have a clear idea of whether Orton has what it takes to fill the bill long term ( if he doesn't already). Also Knowshon is sure to keep improving and it will be handy when he can face a more typical run defense as well and spring a few to develop that confidence and timing. He missed nearly all of camp in his first year and these first 7 games have no doubt been a blur for him. It will start slowing for him soon and that makes Orton that much better.

Moreno needs to get the ball more in the flats for now, give him just a little space to open it up.

We need this game tonight but its not the end of the season by any means if we lose to a well rested Steelers team. If we can beat them tonight though it really sets the tone for the rest of the year and keeps a bit of a cushion on the Chuggers ... screw Chris Snee for jumping off sides and giving the game to SD last night :-\
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:24 AM   #14
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:26 AM   #15
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WTF? Are you sure?
91 catches 900 yards.

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Old 11-09-2009, 12:31 AM   #16
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McCoy, Locker, Bradford and Tebow are all guys that would benefit by sitting for a year or two behind Orton and working with McDaniels. I wouldnt be upset with any of these guys if we pick one of them up. BUT, for the game at hand, Orton has to trust his guys downfield a bit more, there are times he has the play he just has to pull the trigger but he goes for the short gain instead. He has the arm strength so I dont get the hesitancy.

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Old 11-09-2009, 07:32 AM   #17
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WTF? Are you sure?
Actually, it was 10.8 per catch. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/player...playerId=11276 My bad. That's still not a lot, though.
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Old 11-09-2009, 07:34 AM   #18
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Give me Cody and a Center
The weird thing is the couple of draft projections I've seen don't have Cody among the top 30 players even when juniors are included. Wonder if there are questions about his motor?
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
I love Spiller, have since he was freshman, but he isn't the answer to the problem. The key to having aggressive offense is a QB that execute all the plays to all levels of the field. The question can Orton grew into that role or is he a placeholder until McDaniels finds his man.
Well, an aggressive passing O can have it's downside also - interceptions. We'll just have to see how it plays out.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:01 AM   #20
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They need to pick up more third downs.

36/92 = 39.1% before tonight's game.

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Old 11-09-2009, 11:12 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by fontaine View Post
Sure Orton has his weakenesses but his shortcomings haven't stopped this team winning 6 our 7 games against top flite teams like Cincy/NE/Dallas.

What we need more than a quick strike passing game is an improved running that's going to make play action passing much more effective. Orton has improved every game and he's earned the benefit of the doubt with me.

The offense was always going to take a while to get set and I expect it will improve. The longer passes don't just happen, you need a lot of other things to happen before hand like a real threat with the running game, WRs getting open down the field and getting that one on one matchup and then you can talk about the QB lobbing the ball if he can get that kind of pass protection.

We're simply not there yet.
Orton's play-action is woeful. He doesn't sell the run part of the play-action.

As for downfield throws, they've tried that the minimum amount of times per game, but haven't clicked well. Elsid mentioned McKinley and maybe we'll see some more of him, first year receivers sometimes don't work into the rotation well.

The bottom line is Denver has only played 7 games, I counsel patience. And I have to tell myself to be patient all the time because I like aggression.
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Old 11-09-2009, 11:25 AM   #22
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McCoy, Locker, Bradford and Tebow are all guys that would benefit by sitting for a year or two behind Orton and working with McDaniels. I wouldnt be upset with any of these guys if we pick one of them up. BUT, for the game at hand, Orton has to trust his guys downfield a bit more, there are times he has the play he just has to pull the trigger but he goes for the short gain instead. He has the arm strength so I dont get the hesitancy.

I don't know what to say about Orton right now. Erring on the side of caution has paid off because INT's hurt a team's chances bigtime. Just have to wait and see how he plays in the final nine games. He's taken some shots downfield, Scheffler had a ball hit him right in the numbers against Cincy I think it was that would have gone for 40, he barely overthrew Gaffney and Royal a couple times on long passes. Just have to wait and see how it plays out.
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