Red Sox Nation Unite and Take Over!

[football idiot]

Just wanted somewhere to post this, courtesy of ESPN page 2's Dumbness Memorandium....


Dumbest team: SO the Florida Marlins are purchased by an art dealer who had run the Montreal Expos even further into the ground. Who hires his son-in-law as team president. Who hires a GM who reportedly gets ticked off at the book "Moneyball" because it dares question conventional baseball wisdom. Who trades his best player, Preston Wilson, to the Rockies, and then somehow ends up paying Mike Hampton $38 million to pitch for the Braves. Which somehow frees up money to sign Pudge Rodriguez. Who has a reputation for not working well with young pitchers. Who then see their staff leader -- A.J. Burnett -- blow his arm out. Who is replaced by some callow rookie with barely any innings above Class A. Man, was all that really dumb. Especially hiring that old guy to manage.

[Hogan11]

Screw Loria and his championship.

The guy is a slimeball just this side of Al Davis...and MLB is about on the same level as Championship Wrestling anymore....

I find it very hard to care about what is essentially an eight team and the rest fodder league.

I love baseball, but not like this.

I'm gonna start following minor league or better yet some independent league....any baseball that is in a purer form than the farce MLB has become.

[FADERPROOF]

You're an Expos fan, you've been following minor league baseball for quite some time now

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
You're an Expos fan, you've been following minor league baseball for quite some time now

Hey screw you man....

I would wish similar troubles upon your favorite team but I'm not that cruel and you'd never be able to hang for the duration like the hardcore faithful have....save your stories of the Cubs & The Red Sox curses...the Montreal Expos are the most starcrossed franchise in the history of professional sports bar none....it takes tremendous inner strength to continue to endure with a team as damned as that one is.

BTW, they delt Vazquez to the Yanks today for Nick Johnson, Juan Rivera and Randy Choate.

Johnson's a risk due to the wrists but if he's healthy, this guy is pefect for us. A young hitter with good patience at the plate and a bit of pop. If we get Vladdy back, we have 5 guys who should hit above average for their positions.

Of course MLB will make sure that Vlad returning to MTL never happens....but Johnson plugs the hole at 1B effectively enough.

Rivera is a decent player and can be a good player, he picked it up in the 2nd half last year as a part time player.... his defense is excellent, his arm is no vlad, but he does have a good arm....

Let's put it this way, the kid plays very hard and hustles....he'll work.

I also like getting Choate. It lets us cut Eischen's 1 Million option loose. The guy's got pretty good career numbers...walks are a bit high but he doesn't give up HRs and his WHIP is right around where you'd like it to be.

With Vlad all but gone, that money saved by the deal will be targeted at a 3B....losing Vazquez doesn't devestate the rotation any unless El Duque doesn't return or Livan is delt....

The deal isn't the disaster the Colon deal was for MTL by a long shot and could be a very, very good one for MTL depending upon how Johnson pans out (health and numbers-wise).

Hey, when you're owned by the league's other 29 teams (in a clear conflict of interest if'n ever there was one) you expect nothing for the decent players you have....this amounts to one of the best deals for MTL in years....somehow, I don't think MLB will stand for it very long and force them to deal more players by undercutting the Expos budget.

MLB being the farce that it is, it wouldn't surprise me any.

[FADERPROOF]

Save it, I think you're severely underestimating my measures of my team faith. I don't get how the loser teams fans like the Tigers, Expos, Brewers act like they have gone through all this suffering and that if your team doesn't suck then it's not that hard to be a fan of that team and one losing season could crumble the teams fanbase.

That's great, try having the 2nd highest payroll and not making the playoffs for 4 straight years but being so close most of the time, while the rest of the MLB redicules us for being the most over-rated team for every single year that we don't get to the playoffs, all because of that payroll, all while being rediculed for having fake Hollywood fans" that only show up when the team is winning and is "come late, leave early" type fans that really don't care about the team that much.

Yeah, try being a true fan through all that. Not looking for sympathy, just showing that just because my team doesn't have to play 22 games in Puerto Rico and the talks of relocation or contraction comes up every year doesn't mean that I'm not a hardcore fan and that there isn't any pain in being a fan of the team that I follow.

[sutoazul]

Why don't you follow some winter leagues in Dominican Rep., Puerto Rico, Mexico, or Venezuela. I know their leagues are very competitive and the level of talent is huge!!

here's a website (is in spanish but what the heck):
www.beisboldominicano.com
www.ligadelpacifico.com.mx
www.lvbp.com
I couldn't find the one from the Puerto Rican league.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by DenFan38
Save it, I think you're severely underestimating my measures of my team faith. I don't get how the loser teams fans like the Tigers, Expos, Brewers act like they have gone through all this suffering and that if your team doesn't suck then it's not that hard to be a fan of that team and one losing season could crumble the teams fanbase.

That's great, try having the 2nd highest payroll and not making the playoffs for 4 straight years but being so close most of the time, while the rest of the MLB redicules us for being the most over-rated team for every single year that we don't get to the playoffs, all because of that payroll, all while being rediculed for having fake Hollywood fans" that only show up when the team is winning and is "come late, leave early" type fans that really don't care about the team that much.

Yeah, try being a true fan through all that. Not looking for sympathy, just showing that just because my team doesn't have to play 22 games in Puerto Rico and the talks of relocation or contraction comes up every year doesn't mean that I'm not a hardcore fan and that there isn't any pain in being a fan of the team that I follow.

I'd trade that "pain" of yours anyday for what Expos fans have to endure year after year...

It's soooo very easy being a "Big Eight" fan...you never have to worry about relocation or fire sales.....just a joke of a luxury tax.

So unless your team is hanging by a thread to it's very existance every year, forced to trade it's stars because of cash restraints, had it's previous ownerships run it into the ground for 10 years eroding the fanbase to the absolute minimum..not to mention not even getting a sniff of a post season for 23 years (the longest in professional sports BTW) then you couldn't possibly have any idea of what an Expos fan's "pain" really is much less try to tell me how very hard it is to be a Dodgers fan.

Sorry DenFan, there is no comparison.....you'll lose that arguement and lose it badly every single time.

[Hogan11]

Originally posted by sutoazul
Why don't you follow some winter leagues in Dominican Rep., Puerto Rico, Mexico, or Venezuela. I know their leagues are very competitive and the level of talent is huge!!

here's a website (is in spanish but what the heck):
www.beisboldominicano.com
www.ligadelpacifico.com.mx
www.lvbp.com
I couldn't find the one from the Puerto Rican league.

To be honest, I'm not really concerned with talent level when looking at independent leagues....as long as they are competitive and are as far away from the MLB influence as possible..I'd be up for it.

They have a Pony League team in my town that's ok...except they're named the Dodgers But they play their hearts out and are entertaining to watch....maybe I'll just stay local after MTL finally ceases to exist....been seriously thinking about it.

[FADERPROOF]

It wasn't a comparison of the Dodgers compared to the Expos, I was pointing out the whole dedication aspect that you brought into this.

I'll give you credit for sticking with the team through thick and thing, I just didn't like the idea of you thinking that I wouldn't do the same for my team.

[Hogan11]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DenFan38
It wasn't a comparison of the Dodgers compared to the Expos, I was pointing out the whole dedication aspect that you brought into this.

You're right with the dedication thing...perhaps that wasn't fair of me to bring that up, sorry about that....although you must admit, it is much easier being a fan of a larger market than a smaller one in MLB.

I'll give you credit for sticking with the team through thick and thing, I just didn't like the idea of you thinking that I wouldn't do the same for my team.

Where the Expos are concerned ...the shirkers, half-hearted and bandwagoners left a long time ago.

In all sports...the team you support is the brotherhood you support.....you gotta sink and swim with the team....till death do us part....that type of thing.

I have no doubt that you feel the same way about the teams you support.

[FADERPROOF]

It is honorable to stick with one team and keep them as your team throughout everything, as you have for the Expos. It's been a team in turmoil for quite sometime now, and most of the fans have said **** it with them it seems. I understand that it's easier to be a fan of a larger market team, such as the Dodgers, and that it is more painful as an Expos fan than a Dodgers fan, but I've had to deal with some things also, but still remain a fan.

I know all about the bandwagon, Dodger fans are notorious for being one, which sucks because I'm actually a true Dodger blue but get mixed up in the whine and cheese Hollywood crowd that shows up in the 3rd inning and leaves by the 8th, once the team gets hot or is showing that they are a playoff contending team, sucks to be labeled as that.

That's the main reason for my rant, which I do apologize for, I just get a hot head when someone questions the dedication I have to the Dodgers, all because the rep. of Dodger fans, or at least the ones that live in LA and go to the games.

[FADERPROOF]

Besides, I've been a Nuggets fan my whole life, I know what suffering is

[-Slap-]

I grew up rooting for the Dodgers. In fact, I cried like a baby when they got spanked by Charlie Finley's Oakland A's in the 1974 World Series. In retrospect, I'm glad Oakland won. They were a much cooler team and that marked the end of the last true dynasty in major league baseball. Unfortunately, Finley had no money to pay anybody because that amazing team couldn't draw flies to the Oakland Mausoleum.

I think I stopped being a Dodger fan shortly after I saw them beat the Yankees in the World Series in 1981. A lot of factors contributed to this decision, but I was happy for them when they upset Oakland in the 1989 World Series. I can understand how the Dodger organization rubs people the wrong way . They definitely see themselves as above everyone else and tireless self promoters like Tommy Lasorda become tiresome after awhile. I probably went to about 200 games at Chavez Ravine and Dodger fans have got to be about as bad as it gets. Most of the true fans are sitting in the bleachers or the nosebleeds.

I have no team affiliation anymore. All I care about is winning money on fantasy baseball. I guess I've become a pretty big Mark Prior fan, which, technically, makes me a Cubs fan, at least every fifth day. That's pretty depressing.

[Hogan11]

I'll never forgive the Dodgers for 1981.....

and I even liked Rick Monday when he was with the Cubs...

Well, I won't have to worry about all this for much longer I suppose....

Word out at this time is that they let Vazquez go in order to throw matching money at Vlad...who rather stay in MTL, but Baltimore is making it hard for him to do so...

No one is willing to break the bank on him...so MTL actually has a chance at getting him back......Omar feels good about it but it's just hard to believe from an Expos fan view.

[-Slap-]

It would be cool if Vlad stayed in Montreal.

I'm starting to think this A-Rod to the BoSox thing is going to happen.

[Evenrude]

I hate the thought of Nomah being in another uniform..... maybe they could move him to second....

[-Slap-]

He would probably be dealt to the Dodgers or Angels.

[FADERPROOF]

define hypocricy: Last year, Theo Eipstein calls the New York yankees the "evil empire" for buying up all the talent and buying themselves a winning team. This year, the Red Sox have picked up Curt Schilling, are in talks of bringing in A-Rod, if it goes through they'd trade Nomar for a good OF and/or 2B,and are looking into Keith Foulke as a true closer.

What's really killing baseball is this. Cubs have made moves, Marlins are signing a few players back, Phillies are making some real nice moves, but nothing is talked about this. All eyes are on the Red Sox and Yankees and their little arms race to 1 up each other. Goes to show how many teams have a realistic chance of winning the WS, sure there were the Angels of two years ago, but the Yankees and Red Sox are making sure that a blue-collared hard-working team built from the farm and good trades and decisions never gets that chance to win it all again.

[Hogan11]

MLB has done it again and has forced the Expos to cut Vlad free..

On a day that the Grandmaster runs all over the Chiefs and I'm feelin' good, this news comes in late....can we say collusion ?

Owned by the league I guess it was foolish to believe that they might let MTL have an honest shot at retaining quite possibly the greatest player ever in franchise history and the glue to the team's possible WC run....

God I hate MLB....they've now ensured MTL of a last place season with under 3000 in attendance per game.

It's getting real easy to leave this whole farce behind once and for all.

Bastards.

[FADERPROOF]

And guess what...Yankees have reportedly talked with Vlad's agent about coming to the Bronx.

Apparently, Gary Sheffield pissed King George off by asking for 3 million more dollars to complete the deal(yeah, like 3 million more is really going to burn a hole in Steinbrenners pockets.) So the Yankees are now shifting toward Guerrero as a possible RF instead of Sheff.

[Hogan11]

Baltimore is hot on Vlad and Javy Lopez......

I really find it hard to care about it all anymore really.

[sutoazul]

shiat!!!! I forgot about Vlad!!, when I heard the news about Sheff not being sign yet I got extremely happy. Oh Gee, I hope they don't get Vlad. Specially if the A-rod deal doesnt' go throuh.

[Hogan11]

Orioles plan to be busy at winter meetings

By DAVID GINSBURG, AP Sports Writer
December 9, 2003
BALTIMORE (AP) -- The Baltimore Orioles are preparing for a shopping spree, one that could land them Vladimir Guerrero and Javy Lopez.

There's no guarantee that either player will end up in Baltimore, but the Orioles will try their best to sign high-profile free agents.

``I think our idea is to make the club as strong as we can this year, then build on that,'' vice president Jim Beattie said Tuesday.

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No longer burdened by the hefty contracts of Albert Belle and Scott Erickson, the Orioles will arrive at the winter meetings Friday in New Orleans with an open wallet and an open mind.

``We're very serious about improving the ballclub, and we have the resources to do it,'' Beattie said.

At the top of the list is Guerrero, 27, who was not offered salary arbitration by the Montreal Expos.

``You put Vladimir Guerrero in any lineup in baseball, and he improves the club tremendously,'' Beattie said. ``He's a great player; he does things offensively, he does things defensively, he plays with a lot of intensity. He's a tremendous athlete to watch.''

Beattie declined to specify exactly which players the Orioles are pursuing, but he cited catcher, outfielder and 3-4-5 hitters among the team's needs.

Guerrero, an outfielder, and Lopez, a catcher, would fit perfectly in a lineup that ranked 11th among the 14 AL teams in home runs. Lopez hit 43 homers for Atlanta last season and Guerrero had 25 home runs along with a .330 batting average.

Baltimore also is interested in shortstop Miguel Tejada.

``There is a handful of guys that are priorities for us,'' he said. ``We're not going to sign all of them, but we do have a good amount of money to improve the club.''

No one would blame the Orioles for being fearful of offering a long-term contract to Guerrero or anyone else, given that Belle and Erickson didn't reach the end of their pacts before injuries forced them out.

But Beattie wouldn't dismiss the idea of offering a long deal, saying, ``We're not cutting anything out. Six years? I'd rather not, but every player and situation is different.''

The Orioles may not be good enough to overtake New York and Boston in the AL East, but it won't be for lack a lack of resources.

``In the end, there will be a feeling that this is a much improved ballclub,'' Beattie said. ``I just don't know it could be anything but, given the situation and the opportunities we have.''

[Hogan11]

DenFan.....Kevin Brown for Jeff Weaver??

[FADERPROOF]

Originally posted by RHogan
DenFan.....Kevin Brown for Jeff Weaver??

And management will assure Dodger fans that this move puts us in better position to win this year.

Trade our 2nd best pitcher for a scrub that couldn't even make a 5 man rotation for most of the year, yeah LA is doing all they can to make this winning ballclub

We get 2 minor leaguers though, they'll certainly help our playoff push this year, while in double A