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Old 10-31-2009, 05:18 PM   #1
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Default Gunslingers don't necessarily make great quarterbacks

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Gunslingers don't necessarily make great quarterbacks


By Marla Ridenour
Beacon Journal sports writer

POSTED: 06:02 p.m. EDT, Oct 31, 2009



BEREA: Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be gunslingers.

But if they do, remember it takes more than a rocket arm and a childhood Punt, Pass and Kick trophy to become a franchise quarterback in the NFL.

Look no further than Derek Anderson and Jay Cutler, starting quarterbacks for the Browns and Chicago Bears, respectively, today at Soldier Field.

Anderson's throws can dislocate fingers just ask tight end Robert Royal about that but he wouldn't start for any other team in the league with his abysmal statistics.

According to Stats Inc., his 40.6 rating is the third-worst through the first seven weeks in this decade. He trails only Ryan Leaf's 34.5 for the San Diego Chargers in 2000 and Kerry Collins' 37.5 for the Tennessee Titans in 2006.

And there's more. Anderson's 32.9 completion percentage (23-of-70) in the past three games is the lowest by a quarterback with at least 70 attempts since the Oakland Raiders' Steve Beuerlein completed 31.9 percent (23-of-72) in 1988.

Asked about his numbers, Anderson said Wednesday, ''I honestly know they're garbage and I haven't looked at them since I started playing.''

Anderson is putting in the study time and staying late in Berea, impressing Browns coach Eric Mangini and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll with his work ethic.

''If he keeps his preparation up, I really believe good things are going to come,'' Daboll said Friday.

But clearly Anderson is not the Browns' quarterback of the future. Granted, he's hampered by an inexperienced receiving corps, problems on the right side of the offensive line, a rookie center, injuries at tight end and the lack of a running game. But even when Anderson had all the pieces in place in 2007, his inconsistency and penchant for throwing an interception at the worst possible time were maddening. The nicest comment Bears coach Lovie Smith could muster about Anderson last week was, ''Anderson is a good player, he can make all the throws.''

Daboll has increasingly put more and more blame on Anderson, saying Friday that the interception by the Green Bay Packers on a throw to rookie Brian Robiskie was Anderson's fault for letting the ball go too early.

Asked what Anderson needs to do better, Daboll said: ''Complete more passes. I'm being serious. There's some plays the last game that I know he feels he left out there, more so than the first couple games. We had some guys in good positions.''

When asked whether it was time to start someone else, Daboll said, ''I don't think we're at that point right now.''

That might give hope to fans of backup Brady Quinn, who won the job in training camp and was given only 10 quarters before being yanked.

Everything written about Anderson in Pro Football Weekly's 2005 Draft Preview has come to fruition.

''Struggles handling pressure and makes bad decisions,'' Nolan Nawrocki wrote. ''Has a difficult time reading coverages. Needs to improve accuracy. Looks like a different quarterback from week to week. Makes his receivers stop in stride and work for the ball. Lacks patience and has too many lapses in concentration. Throws off his back foot too much. Slow to set his feet. Not a great leader. Won't be able to adjust to the speed of the game for at least several years.''

Anderson's 14-17 record as a starter in four seasons with the Browns has proved that going 10-5 and throwing 29 touchdown passes during his Pro Bowl year in 2007 was an aberration against an easy schedule. Perhaps he'll go somewhere else and become Steve Young, but I wouldn't bet my Phil Simms' autographed mini-football helmet on it.

Cutler, meanwhile, was expected to put the Bears over the top when he arrived in an April 2 trade from the Denver Broncos. The price was steep for the disgruntled flamethrower who was the 11th overall pick in the 2006 draft. After Cutler became upset when new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels floated his name in trade talks, the Bears gave up two first-round picks (in 2009 and 2010), a third-rounder in '09 and quarterback Kyle Orton for Cutler and the Broncos' fifth-rounder.

The Bears are 3-3 with Cutler; the Broncos, 6-0 with Orton. Cutler has thrown 11 touchdowns and 10 interceptions, but he's on pace to pass for a franchise record 3,872 yards.


Asked whether Cutler has been taking too many chances, Smith said: ''The mentality you try to score every play, we're not going to change that. Interceptions happen. We've had too many. We'll continue to do things to limit the amount of interceptions, but you still have to play the game.''

Cutler's 20-23 record as a starter did not deter the Bears from extending his contract on Oct. 20, locking him up through 2013. According to the Chicago Tribune, he's now scheduled to make $50 million in the next five years, with $20 million guaranteed.

Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan thinks Cutler was worth it.

''The guy can throw a strawberry through a battleship, I've always said that about him,'' Ryan said Friday. ''I really think he could and I've seen the [USS] Missouri up close and I honestly think he'd find a fault in it. He's got a huge arm.

''Cutler's always been a great competitor. I like watching the kid play. He holds the ball down by his shoelaces because he thinks he's tougher than everybody. Then he'll throw it and he doesn't care where it's going. He's going to get it to his man.

''When we played him in the past in Oakland, we always had our guys tape their fingers because we're afraid to get 'em knocked off. You can be in the way of the ball, but the chances of you catching it aren't real good if you're not used to catching one out of a cannon.''

For the Broncos, Cutler was 13-1 when the defense held foes to 21 points or less. Perhaps he will succeed with a better defense. But it remains to be seen whether he's a leader. It remains to be seen whether he's as good as the NFL's reigning gunslingers the Minnesota Vikings' Brett Favre (the poster boy of the genre, who won one Super Bowl with the Packers) and the Pittsburgh Steelers' Ben Roethlisberger (who has two championships). The other big-armed quarterbacks aren't running away in their divisions. The Baltimore Ravens are 3-3 with Joe Flacco; the Packers, 4-2 with Aaron Rodgers. Others with less arm strength are faring just as well, like Drew Brees with the New Orleans Saints (6-0), Peyton Manning with the Indianapolis Colts (6-0) and Tom Brady with the New England Patriots (5-2).

With neither Anderson nor Quinn appearing to be the answer, the Browns' search for a franchise quarterback might begin again in 2010, when they seem bound for a top-five pick.

They might be tempted by the University of Washington's Jake Locker if he forgoes his final year of eligibility. Locker is 6-foot-3 and 225 pounds with a big arm, but ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. believes he's a work in progress in terms of accuracy, decision making and balance.

If Locker comes out, he's expected to be one of the top two quarterbacks selected, especially after Heisman Trophy winner Sam Bradford of Oklahoma underwent shoulder surgery. Locker also has been drafted by the Los Angeles Angels and Nawrocki said recently that baseball scouts believe Locker has a ''hall of fame arm.''

Burned by one gunslinger in Anderson, will the Browns go looking for another? Oh, Mama, that could be risky business, indeed.


http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/68058072.html




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Old 10-31-2009, 05:31 PM   #2
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Quote:
Gunslingers don't necessarily make great quarterbacks
"Dont necessarily"...thats hardly going out on a limb. .

In other news, somethimes its a good idea to take an umbrella even when it isnt currently raining.
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Old 10-31-2009, 05:46 PM   #3
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But, he's got a "rocket arm!"
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Old 10-31-2009, 05:59 PM   #4
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But, he's got a "rocket arm!"
lol...
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Old 10-31-2009, 06:46 PM   #5
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But, he's got a "rocket arm!"
Yep, arm by NASA, brain by Mattel.
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:09 PM   #6
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Having a strong arm is an asset, but it's how a quarter uses that asset, it can't become the answer to everything on the football field. It can be used to keep defense of balanced and when the situation calls for it.

Playing QB is more than just throwing hard and far. Sadly many fans fall in love with the long ball fire rocket pass. Playing qaurterback is about understanding the defense, knowing your offense, moving players into spots to create matchups, blocking assignments, and leading a group of players.

Far too many times we have seen big arm force balls into really bad spots and hurt their teams. Even Elway (my childhood hero) was guilty of thinking his arm was good enough to win and would force balls.

I remeber reading a SI article about the Super the week before the Broncos Vs 49ers. It was title The Puncher vs surgeon and had Elway and Montana photos under the respective title. Basically the article said Elway would punch the 49ers, but montana would slice and dice the Broncos. In my youth I thought Elway had a shot to win tha Superbowl... damn that article was correct.

It was until Fassell and Shanny that he stop being a gunner and became a quarterback. Playing the field general, using the matchups, protecting his defense and when called for to use the gun.

That's why I was so against Jay being handed the team in 06 and being allowed to be the wild child rocket throwing attitude QB. He needed to learn and grow over time. Shanny just was desperate to get him out there and over looked everything he knew needed fixed. It's sad that Shanny came in and fixed Elway's game, but then created a problem child like Jay.

No one will not deny the talent that Cutler has in his arm and legs. But it's not until he learns how to lead, how to be a quarterback and play smart, until he wins. Sadly his ego now is too big to be reeled in by Lovie and a desperate city looking for a quarterback.

When the trade went down for Cutler a Bear fan I work with told me to enjoy limp arm Orton. Now 6-0 later I tell him everyday. "I'm enjoying the franchise QB you guys gave us!" "Also can't wait for that 2010 draft selection of yours!"

I'll take a smart, average arm quarterback with heart over a young gun ego everytime.
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:18 PM   #7
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Hmm....

SB Champs (based on that year)

Big Ben - Gunslinger
Eli - Not Gunslinger
Peyton - Lean Gunslinger
Big Ben - Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Not Gunslinger
Brad Johnson - Not Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Not Gunslinger
Dillfer - Not Gunslinger
Warner - Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger

Maybe, sometimes, perhaps, whatever.
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HEAV View Post
Having a strong arm is an asset, but it's how a quarter uses that asset, it can't become the answer to everything on the football field. It can be used to keep defense of balanced and when the situation calls for it.

Playing QB is more than just throwing hard and far. Sadly many fans fall in love with the long ball fire rocket pass. Playing qaurterback is about understanding the defense, knowing your offense, moving players into spots to create matchups, blocking assignments, and leading a group of players.

Far too many times we have seen big arm force balls into really bad spots and hurt their teams. Even Elway (my childhood hero) was guilty of thinking his arm was good enough to win and would force balls.

I remeber reading a SI article about the Super the week before the Broncos Vs 49ers. It was title The Puncher vs surgeon and had Elway and Montana photos under the respective title. Basically the article said Elway would punch the 49ers, but montana would slice and dice the Broncos. In my youth I thought Elway had a shot to win tha Superbowl... damn that article was correct.

It was until Fassell and Shanny that he stop being a gunner and became a quarterback. Playing the field general, using the matchups, protecting his defense and when called for to use the gun.

That's why I was so against Jay being handed the team in 06 and being allowed to be the wild child rocket throwing attitude QB. He needed to learn and grow over time. Shanny just was desperate to get him out there and over looked everything he knew needed fixed. It's sad that Shanny came in and fixed Elway's game, but then created a problem child like Jay.

No one will not deny the talent that Cutler has in his arm and legs. But it's not until he learns how to lead, how to be a quarterback and play smart, until he wins. Sadly his ego now is too big to be reeled in by Lovie and a desperate city looking for a quarterback.

When the trade went down for Cutler a Bear fan I work with told me to enjoy limp arm Orton. Now 6-0 later I tell him everyday. "I'm enjoying the franchise QB you guys gave us!" "Also can't wait for that 2010 draft selection of yours!"

I'll take a smart, average arm quarterback with heart over a young gun ego everytime.
Do you mean in the abstract?
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:32 PM   #9
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Gunslinger...Not Gunslinger...

A good quarterback is a good quarterback.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killericon View Post
Gunslinger...Not Gunslinger...

A good quarterback is a good quarterback.
Agreed. But if there is one point that Kyle Orton and Josh McDaniels have made this year, it's that throwing accurately and smartly for 5-10 yards is a pretty damn effective way to win football games.

It amazes me that football "rediscovers" this every few years. It was rediscovered when people figured out that the best QB in the 70's was Terry Bradshaw, not Roger Staubach or Fran Tarkenton. It was rediscovered when Joe Montana's West Coast Offense won four Super Bowls in the 1980's over Dan Marino, Boomer Esiason, and (ick) John Elway. It was rediscovered when Troy Aikman dominated Jim Kelly in the 1990's.

A long passing game is great if you've got it, but an accurate, possession-based short passing game is far, far more important. It's just like golf... you drive for show and you putt for dough. But it doesn't stop people from going nuts over a guy who can whack a golf ball 350 yards on the driving range.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:19 PM   #11
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I'll take a guy who can make all the throws over one who can't no matter how "Smart" he is. You can coach technique but you can't coach in athleticism or talent. If you watch Brandstater in College he kinda reminds me of a poor mans Jake Locker. He just might have the brains and the brawn .
For the record in Elways first two years and his partial rookie year he had 30 somthing TD and 52 ints much worse than Cutler and he turned out OK!

What the hell is a Lean Gunslinger? lol Elway untill Shanny came along was all gunslinger!
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:23 PM   #12
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We could draft a combo of both...lol..Max Hall from BYU (True birthplace of the West Coast Style offense). They run the Spread now and Hall is a short game pro with the head and heart of a gunslinger. He chokes in big games though..lol..except the OU Opener
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:25 PM   #13
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duh
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:33 PM   #14
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We could draft a combo of both...lol..Max Hall from BYU (True birthplace of the West Coast Style offense). They run the Spread now and Hall is a short game pro with the head and heart of a gunslinger. He chokes in big games though..lol..except the OU Opener
Will you be staying long?
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:35 PM   #15
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I'll take a guy who can make all the throws over one who can't no matter how "Smart" he is. You can coach technique but you can't coach in athleticism or talent.
Throwing the ball to your team, and not to the other team, isn't strictly technique. Some people lack the ability to read coverage and to pick up who is where on the field. That's primarily cognitive, and that sure as hell isn't coachable. That's like saying you could coach somebody to have better eyesight.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:39 PM   #16
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We could draft a combo of both...lol..Max Hall from BYU (True birthplace of the West Coast Style offense). They run the Spread now and Hall is a short game pro with the head and heart of a gunslinger. He chokes in big games though..lol..except the OU Opener
Well that OU game, they were missing their star qb for half the game.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:46 PM   #17
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Well that OU game, they were missing their star qb for half the game.
But the defense still dominated with and without that "Star QB", and Hall played clutch for BYU
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:48 PM   #18
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Gimmee Jake Locker, An Ex BYU QB for a coach and big and strong with a good head on his shoulders.
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Old 10-31-2009, 08:49 PM   #19
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Throwing the ball to your team, and not to the other team, isn't strictly technique. Some people lack the ability to read coverage and to pick up who is where on the field. That's primarily cognitive, and that sure as hell isn't coachable. That's like saying you could coach somebody to have better eyesight.
True..again see Elways early career
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:05 PM   #20
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With the big contract and all that guaranteed money -- where is Cutler's incentive to improve?

All he has to do is show up --
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:12 PM   #21
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True..again see Elways early career
Derek Anderson and Jay Cutler are not John Elway, and they are never going to be.

The fact that one player can overcome an interception problem is not evidence that other players are likely to. Anything is possible, but in the grand scheme of things, you can't point to an absolutely exceptional player as evidence that other players are going to have the same sort of turnaround.
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Old 10-31-2009, 09:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by frerottenextelway View Post
Hmm....

SB Champs (based on that year)

Big Ben - Gunslinger
Eli - Not Gunslinger
Peyton - Lean Gunslinger
Big Ben - Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Not Gunslinger
Brad Johnson - Not Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Not Gunslinger
Dillfer - Not Gunslinger
Warner - Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger

Maybe, sometimes, perhaps, whatever.
Dude, that list is insanity. Tom Brady is the farthest thing from Gunslinger you're going to find. Manning? Are you kidding?

There's one gunslinger on that list, and I'm hoping you can figure out who that is.
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Old 10-31-2009, 10:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frerottenextelway View Post
Hmm....

SB Champs (based on that year)

Big Ben - Gunslinger
Eli - Not Gunslinger
Peyton - Lean Gunslinger
Big Ben - Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Not Gunslinger
Brad Johnson - Not Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Not Gunslinger
Dillfer - Not Gunslinger
Warner - Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger

Maybe, sometimes, perhaps, whatever.
since when is Ben a gunslinger. dude is the prototype game manager. his job is don't **** it up for the defense, get the runnin game going and make good plays at the end of games.
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frerottenextelway View Post
Hmm....

SB Champs (based on that year)

Big Ben - Gunslinger
Eli - Not Gunslinger
Peyton - Lean Gunslinger
Big Ben - Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Lean Not Gunslinger
Brad Johnson - Not Gunslinger
Tom Brady - Not Gunslinger
Dillfer - Not Gunslinger
Warner - Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger
Elway - Lean Gunslinger

Maybe, sometimes, perhaps, whatever.
Big Ben a gunslinger? Peyton Manning a gunslinger? Are you freaking kidding me? Brady a Gunslinger? Talk about complete and total epic fail. Just about every guy up there is the complete opposite of a gunslinger. Throwing for a lot of yards is not a "gunslinger." Even Elway in his SB wins was no longer a gunslinger.

And what the hell is a "lean" gunslinger?

Last edited by Kaylore; 10-31-2009 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 10-31-2009, 11:25 PM   #25
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Big Ben a gunslinger? Peyton Manning a gunslinger? Are you freaking kidding me? Brady a Gunslinger? Talk about complete and total epic fail. Just about every guy up there is the complete opposite of a gunslinger. Throwing for a lot of yards is not a "gunslinger." Even Elway in his SB wins was no longer a gunslinger.

And what the hell is a "lean" gunslinger?
The reason I'll never be a mod around here is... I would have just deleted that post. It's so skull-numbingly misinformed, I'd be afraid that a young football fan might read it and end up football-dumb for life.

Manning is one of the most accurate QBs to ever toss a pass in the NFL.

What's next, Troy Aikman was a gunslinger?
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