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Old 10-21-2009, 07:16 AM   #1
TonyR
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Default Orton outperforming Cutler, becoming star in Denver

Kyle high and Jay low in '09
Orton's outperforming Cutler, becoming a star in Denver under McDaniels

October 21, 2009
BY RICK TELANDER rtelander@suntimes.com

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy --about as easy as Sunday afternoon quarterbacking is hard.

But we got some stuff here, folks.

The Bears are quarterback Jay Cutler's team for the next half-decade, for instance.

On Tuesday night, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo made it official just five games into the season, getting Cutler to sign a contract extension that will keep him in Chicago through 2013 and will earn him Manning-brothers-type loot. We're talking $20million in up-front bonus money on a contract with a total value of close to $30 million.

So there's that.

But there's also this: The quarterback the Bears tossed to the Denver Broncos as a low-level substitute in their offseason trade for Cutler -- the bearded and limited Kyle Orton -- is having a better season than Cutler.

Indeed, Orton, the former Bears starter who had to watch Rex Grossman dither around in the backfield for nearly two years, is pretty much amazing the entire NFL world as he has led the seemingly downgraded Broncos to a tie for the best record in the league at 6-0.

On Monday night against the San Diego Chargers, Orton led his team to a 34-23 road victory that had people in Chicago muttering into their beers that the guy who never quite grabbed our attention while here was certainly going to melt down at the end.

He didn't.

Orton threw two second-half touchdown passes, capping his night with a five-yard pass to wideout Brandon Stokley, who rolled into the end zone and finished the Chargers with 2:55 left.

For the game, Orton went 20-for-29 for 229 yards, two touchdowns and no interceptions. His passer rating of 115.4 brought his season rating up to a stunning 101.1.

Sensational numbers
Orton has completed 64 percent of his passes for 1,465 yards, nine touchdowns and only one interception. At that rate, he'll throw for 3,907 yards, 24 touchdowns and 2 2/3 interceptions in 2009.

Is this the guy who played for the Bears?

Apparently so. Because we can see formerly lazy and reviled Bears running back Cedric Benson of the Cincinnati Bengals leading the league in carries (127) with the NFL's third-best rushing yardage (531) and the best rushing average (4.2 yards) of his career. This while Bears running back Matt Forte plummets.

Sometimes a change of scenery can change your life. And sometimes the team that had you just didn't know how to use you, stroke you or bring out your best.

And you wonder: Whose fault is that? And further: Do the Bears ruin their offensive stars?

Cutler is doing quite well for the Bears. Well, not bad. But it's his wildness in the red zone and those seven interceptions that make one pause.

Yes, Orton has been lucky and blessed -- how many times can you count on a pass being deflected to one of your receivers for an 87-yard game-winning touchdown (Orton-to-Stokley in Game 1 against the Bengals)? And how many punt and kickoff returns for touchdowns do you normally get in a game? (Against the Chargers, the Broncos' Eddie Royal ran back one of each.)

Yet the slow-footed but shrewd Orton is blossoming in the Broncos' shotgun offense -- his rating in the gun was 132.2 against the Chargers but only 48.6 in his few under-center snaps -- and that is all about coaching.

If you think back to that Bears-Broncos preseason game Aug. 30, things looked terrible for the Broncos and Orton. Broncos coach Josh McDaniels was getting roundly vilified and painted as a mean, dumb, childish clone snapped from the rib of former mentor Bill Belichick.

Timing is everything
Cutler looked great in that game, Orton awful. Orton came out for good that night with his hand bleeding and a shocked look on his face.

But what did it mean? Nothing.

McDaniels looks like a genius now (remember how eager he was to replace Cutler?), and Orton looks like the second coming of Bart Starr.

''The league is funny. It's all about timing,'' Cutler said Tuesday on the ''Waddle and Silvy Show'' on WMVP-AM (1000). ''You could be one of the best players in the league, but if you're not in the right system, you don't have the right people around you, there's a lot of different aspects that go into making or breaking a player.

''It's working for Kyle. It's working for Josh. And it's working for the Broncos. They've got a good thing going.''

Do the Bears?

There's no way they could've locked up the wrong quarterback.

Is there?

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/telan...ick21.article#
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:28 AM   #2
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That's a good point. Benson has been playing much better after leaving Chicago just like Orton. Maybe Grossman needs another shot from some team.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:35 AM   #3
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Why would they have extended the wrong QB? Orton could never even get 3000 yards there. They never won when the defense was playing bad. Cutler had one bad game and has played very good since. He is also still winning just as much as Orton was while being new to the team. I think both teams are very happy with who they have. Chicago was never going anywhere with Orton and it doesn't really matter if that is ortons fault or the coaching.

I also don't think Orton and Cutler are the ones responsible for the defenses and special teams play. Orton switched teams and now we are the ones getting return TDs. Is Orton a great special teams blocker or what? Cutler was on a team with the majority of the starting defense hurt here and now a lot of the stars of that defense are all getting hurt. Is that Cutlers fault? Our defense saw the fewest drives in the league, so it isn't Cutler putting them on the field a lot. Are his hard passes injuring everyone in practice or what? This is a team game and making arguments that it is all one player doing something is always going to sound dumb to me.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:38 AM   #4
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Check out the poll results here.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/200...eopener-1.html
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:40 AM   #5
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Why would they have extended the wrong QB? Orton could never even get 3000 yards there. They never won when the defense was playing bad. Cutler had one bad game and has played very good since. He is also still winning just as much as Orton was while being new to the team. I think both teams are very happy with who they have. Chicago was never going anywhere with Orton and it doesn't really matter if that is ortons fault or the coaching.

I also don't think Orton and Cutler are the ones responsible for the defenses and special teams play. Orton switched teams and now we are the ones getting return TDs. Is Orton a great special teams blocker or what? Cutler was on a team with the majority of the starting defense hurt here and now a lot of the stars of that defense are all getting hurt. Is that Cutlers fault? Our defense saw the fewest drives in the league, so it isn't Cutler putting them on the field a lot. Are his hard passes injuring everyone in practice or what? This is a team game and making arguments that it is all one player doing something is always going to sound dumb to me.
you must really want cutlers weiner.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:43 AM   #6
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When are Bears fans going to learn that it's their coaching staff that needs changed? The Bears can trade and sign every al-pro in the league but the coaching staff wouldn't know what to do with them.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:45 AM   #7
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you must really want cutlers weiner.
Why is that what is on your mind? Little girls don't need to be thinking of that kind of thing.
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:56 AM   #8
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Why would they have extended the wrong QB? Orton could never even get 3000 yards there. They never won when the defense was playing bad. Cutler had one bad game and has played very good since. He is also still winning just as much as Orton was while being new to the team. I think both teams are very happy with who they have. Chicago was never going anywhere with Orton and it doesn't really matter if that is ortons fault or the coaching.

I also don't think Orton and Cutler are the ones responsible for the defenses and special teams play. Orton switched teams and now we are the ones getting return TDs. Is Orton a great special teams blocker or what? Cutler was on a team with the majority of the starting defense hurt here and now a lot of the stars of that defense are all getting hurt. Is that Cutlers fault? Our defense saw the fewest drives in the league, so it isn't Cutler putting them on the field a lot. Are his hard passes injuring everyone in practice or what? This is a team game and making arguments that it is all one player doing something is always going to sound dumb to me.

You mean the Kyle Orton who they only let start 15 games last year? The one who had no O-line and got sacked 27 times? The one who threw 18 TDs and was only 30 yards off from a 3,000 yard year?

You realize that through 6 weeks with the Bears Cutler is on basically the same pace as Orton for yards? Cutler has more TD passes, but the running game has been worse.... oh but he also has 7 Ints and 5 fumbles... hmmm.

Chicago would have been fine had they re-signed Chicago. Their record may or may not be different, but their is a valid argument that you don't get tthe 4 ints in game 1 against the packers if you still had Orton.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:05 AM   #9
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oh but he also has 7 Ints and 5 fumbles... hmmm.

Chicago would have been fine had they re-signed Chicago. Their record may or may not be different, but their is a valid argument that you don't get tthe 4 ints in game 1 against the packers if you still had Orton.
Not only that but 7 Ints and 5 Fumbles from Jay this year were he still in Denver and the Broncos are 4-2 at best...probably 3-3 or 2-4.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:05 AM   #10
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You mean the Kyle Orton who they only let start 15 games last year? The one who had no O-line and got sacked 27 times? The one who threw 18 TDs and was only 30 yards off from a 3,000 yard year?

You realize that through 6 weeks with the Bears Cutler is on basically the same pace as Orton for yards? Cutler has more TD passes, but the running game has been worse.... oh but he also has 7 Ints and 5 fumbles... hmmm.

Chicago would have been fine had they re-signed Chicago. Their record may or may not be different, but their is a valid argument that you don't get tthe 4 ints in game 1 against the packers if you still had Orton.
You do realize how easy 3000 yards is right? Even minus a game, average QBs throw that in their sleep. Those 5 fumblea are also not turnovers. In fact I know a couplke just fell to the ground under cutler as he fell on them. Yes, orton probably doesn't throw those picks. He also doesn't pick up the offense by himself and win some of those other games. Have you watched them at all this year? Do you really think Cutler can't reach 3000 yardsV why the comparison of pace then? I should be impressed that orton stopped playing good each season as the seasons progressed?

Again, Cutler is winning in Chicago just as much as Orton was. He has a worse run game, the same crappy o-line, and a far more injured and worse defense/special teams. I don't see how they signed the wrong guy.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:09 AM   #11
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I don't see why everybody is so suprised. If you watched Orton at Purdue, you would have expected this. He's a good QB, especially in the "head on his shoulders" department, which is a hell of a lot more crucial than some people give it credit.

Take a guy playing now, Clausen at ND. I wouldn't put that guy on my team for free. He's a whiner and a punk. He will be nothing but trouble in the future, IMO.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:15 AM   #12
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Not only that but 7 Ints and 5 Fumbles from Jay this year were he still in Denver and the Broncos are 4-2 at best...probably 3-3 or 2-4.
First off, that makes no sense when my argument was that Cutler is better for Chicago than Orton and Orton is good here. Second, who says Cutler turns the ball over that much if he was here? Third, those fumbles are not turnovers.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:17 AM   #13
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It's always a possibility that if we had Cutler we would be 6-0, or still really good record, but scoring a lot more.

We will never really know what Cutler would have been like under Mcdaniels teachings. Maybe they would have clashed, maybe Cutler be going just one of those things you would never wish for, but in the long run is best for the team.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:19 AM   #14
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Again, Cutler is winning in Chicago just as much as Orton was. He has a worse run game, the same crappy o-line, and a far more injured and worse defense/special teams. I don't see how they signed the wrong guy.
The Bears defense is currently 13th in Yards per game and 15th in points per game. Last year they where 21st in yards and 16th in points.

So how is it worse? Because it doesn't have Urlacher? Its outproducing last year's D.

The backs are the same, the OL was supposed to be improved with the addition of Pace (which I told everyone wouldn't make a damn bit of difference).

So why do you give Cutler $15M a year to give you what Orton was, with nearly the same offensive support (though Orton never had Johnny Knox) and a less productive defense than what Cutler has now?
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:20 AM   #15
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You do realize how easy 3000 yards is right? Even minus a game, average QBs throw that in their sleep. Those 5 fumblea are also not turnovers. In fact I know a couplke just fell to the ground under cutler as he fell on them. Yes, orton probably doesn't throw those picks. He also doesn't pick up the offense by himself and win some of those other games. Have you watched them at all this year? Do you really think Cutler can't reach 3000 yardsV why the comparison of pace then? I should be impressed that orton stopped playing good each season as the seasons progressed?

Again, Cutler is winning in Chicago just as much as Orton was. He has a worse run game, the same crappy o-line, and a far more injured and worse defense/special teams. I don't see how they signed the wrong guy.
Couple problems with that statement. First, the acquisition of a "FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK" was supposed to make a SIGNIFICANT difference for that franchise. Period. He wasn't brought in to win the same amount of games. He was brought in to win MORE games. Not sure why that's so hard to see.

Second, Orton is winning MORE in Denver than Cutler was. With a similar supporting cast, that same offensive line and receivers. The difference? Why, turnovers, of course!
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:30 AM   #16
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The Bears defense is currently 13th in Yards per game and 15th in points per game. Last year they where 21st in yards and 16th in points.

So how is it worse? Because it doesn't have Urlacher? Its outproducing last year's D.

The backs are the same, the OL was supposed to be improved with the addition of Pace (which I told everyone wouldn't make a damn bit of. difference).

So why do you give Cutler $15M a year to give you what Orton was, with nearly the same offensive support (though Orton never had Johnny Knox) and a less productive defense than what Cutler has now?
First off, try proving Knox isn't a product of Cutler. He goes there and suddenly their receivers(including ones already there) can play. Orton comes here and guys like Royal fall off....

Second, who cares if something is supposed to be better. Their o-line has been junk so far. Their defense could be producing close to the same other than the fact that it was the offense that hurt them more than anything last season. They were far better if you break that down to a per drive stats. They also faced the most drives in the league. You want to know something else that is funny? Our defense saw the fewest drives in the league. You want to know another huge difference and the one I was talking about? They also got more turnovers last year and the defense/special teams both scored a ton for Chicago last year. They aren't even close to the same pace.

You want to know why you pay Cutler? They just traded their future for him and he is winning just as much in his first year their as Orton was winning in his 4th year their. This is only the start to. They could get a lot better as he learns to play with that offense. I would say I have already seen him get better. If he doesn't, they are screwed. At that point, I can be happy I am a Bronco fan.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:34 AM   #17
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Couple problems with that statement. First, the acquisition of a "FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK" was supposed to make a SIGNIFICANT difference for that franchise. Period. He wasn't brought in to win the same amount of games. He was brought in to win MORE games. Not sure why that's so hard to see.

Second, Orton is winning MORE in Denver than Cutler was. With a similar supporting cast, that same offensive line and receivers. The difference? Why, turnovers, of course!
He is winning the same in his first few starts. Are you actually saying he can't improve? I would say you should watch their games because he already has been.

As for your other comments, that is exactly why I said I think both teams are happy....
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:36 AM   #18
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^is the suckfest continuing?
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:38 AM   #19
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I don't see why everybody is so suprised. If you watched Orton at Purdue, you would have expected this. He's a good QB, especially in the "head on his shoulders" department, which is a hell of a lot more crucial than some people give it credit.

Take a guy playing now, Clausen at ND. I wouldn't put that guy on my team for free. He's a whiner and a punk. He will be nothing but trouble in the future, IMO.
Clausen has actually matured quite a bit since coming to ND.

He entered the program like he thought he was a ready made superstar and talked about winning three championships. He's been humbled quite rapidly and is now just beginning to learn what it is to lead a team. He's got a long ways to go still, but much of the arrogance and attitude has been shoved back down his throat, and he's changed a lot as a result.

His biggest problem is that he's stuck with Wiess as his HC, who is a great OC but just doesn't have the mindset of a head coach. They often put themselves in bad spots late in games as a result.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:42 AM   #20
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You want to know why you pay Cutler? They just traded their future for him and he is winning just as much in his first year their as Orton was winning in his 4th year their. .
I can't get my edit to work but I would like to add that I know the differenve between there and their. Just not when I typed that.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:42 AM   #21
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Its simple: Orton is a better QB for Denver, Cutler is a better QB for chicago. The Denver offense is incredibly cerebral. The QB has to make many pre-snap reads, change running lanes, and always know the right place to go with the ball. This is perfect for Orton. Cutler is way too much of a gunslinger, cant read underneath coverage for ****, often locks on his receivers.

The Chicago offense is much more simplified and allows Jay to use his natural talents to succeed. Its not nearly as creative as the Broncos scheme. Its also why its not as good.

Oh, and Cutler has had two bad games. His last game was anything but impressive.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:43 AM   #22
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Clausen has actually matured quite a bit since coming to ND.

He entered the program like he thought he was a ready made superstar and talked about winning three championships. He's been humbled quite rapidly and is now just beginning to learn what it is to lead a team. He's got a long ways to go still, but much of the arrogance and attitude has been shoved back down his throat, and he's changed a lot as a result.

His biggest problem is that he's stuck with Wiess as his HC, who is a great OC but just doesn't have the mindset of a head coach. They often put themselves in bad spots late in games as a result.
Clausen throws a sweet deep ball
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:56 AM   #23
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why does every thread have to turn into a cutler bash thread.

The guy, jhns, made a valid arguement and opinion.

But now it has ultimately turner into a you love jays balls. Go suck on his scholng some more. Jay sucks, jays sucks we got orton he rules and jay sucks.



I think by now we all know both sides to the jay sucks vs jay rules debates. Just let it go.


I think the bears were smart to extend him, and obviously the bears do too. So it is kinda weird that the article asks if they resigned the right qb? They sure as hell arent getting kyle back from us. So who else out there is better.?

Jason campbell? the vikings backup qb jackson? We made out like bandints and they got a good deal too. Questioning the extension of jay- seems stupid to me and only shows people still cant let it go.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:57 AM   #24
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He is winning the same in his first few starts. Are you actually saying he can't improve? I would say you should watch their games because he already has been.

As for your other comments, that is exactly why I said I think both teams are happy....
Of course he CAN improve. Everyone CAN improve. YOu could suddenly start posting stuff that doesn't suck.

But the Bears gave up a king's ransom for Cutler with the hope or understanding that he would come in and immediately make a significant difference in the W/L column. It hasn't happened. Why do you think they made the desperation move for gaines Adams?
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:58 AM   #25
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why does every thread have to turn into a cutler bash thread.

The guy, jhns, made a valid arguement and opinion.

But now it has ultimately turner into a you love jays balls. Go suck on his scholng some more. Jay sucks, jays sucks we got orton he rules and jay sucks.



I think by now we all know both sides to the jay sucks vs jay rules debates. Just let it go.


I think the bears were smart to extend him, and obviously the bears do too. So it is kinda weird that the article asks if they resigned the right qb? They sure as hell arent getting kyle back from us. So who else out there is better.?

Jason campbell? the vikings backup qb jackson? We made out like bandints and they got a good deal too. Questioning the extension of jay- seems stupid to me and only shows people still cant let it go.

The reason people are getting on jhns's case is not because of this post, but his entire body of posts over the past few months. Simply put, he has trouble admitting he's wrong.
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