Sen. Snowe will vote for health care bill.

[Florida_Bronco]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33290417...h_care_reform/

Sweeping health bill passes Senate panel
The $829B plan would require most Americans to purchase insurance
The Associated Press
updated 3:13 p.m. ET, Tues., Oct . 13, 2009

WASHINGTON - With support from a lone Republican, a key Senate committee Tuesday approved a middle-of-the-road health care plan that moves President Barack Obama's goal of wider and affordable coverage a giant step closer to becoming law.

Maine Republican Olympia Snowe said she was laying aside misgivings for now and voting to advance the bill, a sweeping $829-billon, 10-year health care remake that would help most Americans get coverage without creating a new government insurance plan. "When history calls, history calls," said Snowe.

Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont., called his bill "a commonsense, balanced solution." A distance runner, Baucus has endured months of marathon meetings to get this far. It's not the finish line.

Health care legislation is expected to be on the Senate floor the week after next, said a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada. But it won't be the Baucus bill. Reid will combine the Finance version with a more liberal proposal from the health committee -- with unpredictable results.

The vote in the Finance Committee was 14-9, with Snowe joining all 13 Democrats in support. In a sign of long political battles ahead, every other Republican voted against it.

The ultimate fate of the legislation hinges on how lawmakers decide dozens of unresolved issues, from letting government sell insurance to abortion coverage. Even some senators who voted for the Baucus bill said they have concerns it will deliver on providing access to affordable coverage for all.

As Snowe made clear, "My vote today is my vote today. It doesn't forecast what my vote will be tomorrow."

The Baucus plan would, for the first time, require most Americans to purchase insurance and it also aims to hold down spiraling medical costs over the long term. Questions persist about whether it would truly provide access to affordable coverage, particularly for self employed people with solid middle class incomes.

The Finance Committee's top Republican, Chuck Grassley of Iowa, gave voice to the GOP's concerns about the bill, saying it was "moving on a slippery slope to more and more government control of health care."

"There's a lot in this bill that's just a consensus that needs to be done, but there are other provisions of this bill that raise a lot of questions," Grassley said, contending the legislation would mean higher costs for Americans.

The committee approval marked a personal victory for Baucus. Four other congressional committees finished their work before August, and for months all eyes had been on the Finance panel, whose moderate makeup most closely resembles the Senate as a whole.

Snowe kept Washington guessing about how she would vote until she announced it late in the debate Tuesday. Democrats, aware that Snowe could be the only Republican in Congress to vote for their health care overhaul, have spent months addressing her concerns about making coverage affordable and how to pay for it.

The committee's centrist legislation is also seen as the best building block for a compromise plan that could find favor on the Senate floor.

One of the biggest unanswered questions is whether the legislation would slow punishing increases in the nation's health care costs, particularly for the majority who now have coverage through employers. The insurance industry insists it would shift new costs onto those who have coverage.

Congressional Budget Office Director Douglas Elmendorf, under questioning by Republican senators, acknowledged that the bill's total impact on the nation's health care costs is still unknown. The CBO has been able to establish that the legislation would reduce federal government deficits, but Elmendorf said his staff has not had time to evaluate its effects on privately insured people. Government programs pay about half the nation's annual $2.5 trillion health care tab.

Once the Finance Committee has acted, the dealmaking can begin in earnest with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., working with White House staff, Baucus and others to blend the Finance bill with a more liberal version passed by the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee.

Baucus' bill includes consumer protections such as limits on copays and deductibles and relies on federal subsidies to help lower-income families purchase coverage. Insurance companies would have to take all comers, and people could shop for insurance within new state marketplaces called exchanges.

Medicaid would be expanded, and though employers wouldn't be required to cover their workers, they'd have to pay a penalty for each employee who sought insurance with government subsidies. The bill is paid for by cuts to Medicare providers and new taxes on insurance companies and others.

Unlike the other health care bills in Congress, Baucus' would not allow the government to sell insurance in competition with private companies, a divisive element sought by liberals.

Last-minute changes made subsidies more generous and softened the penalties for those who don't comply with a proposed new mandate for everyone to buy insurance. The latter change drew the ire of the health insurance industry, which said that without a strong and enforceable requirement, not enough people would get insured and premiums would jump for everyone else.

A major question mark for Reid's negotiations is whether he will include some version of a so-called public plan in the merged bill. Across the Capitol, House Democratic leaders are working to finalize their bill, which does contain a public plan, and floor action is expected in both chambers in coming weeks. If passed, the legislation would then go to a conference committee to reconcile differences.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33290417...h_care_reform/

MSN Privacy . Legal
© 2009 MSNBC.com

[Rohirrim]

This bill is just another one of those "Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner." Guess who's the sheep? This bill was written by a former VP of policy for Blue Cross, Blue Shield. Last I heard, it forces Americans to pay over $400 billion more dollars to the insurance companies than we are already paying, and this one even has the force of law behind it. Can you say, "Baaaaa!" I knew you could.

Good time to buy health insurance stocks, BTW.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

This bill is just another one of those "Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner." Guess who's the sheep? This bill was written by a former VP of policy for Blue Cross, Blue Shield. Last I heard, it forces Americans to pay over $400 billion more dollars to the insurance companies than we are already paying, and this one even has the force of law behind it. Can you say, "Baaaaa!" I knew you could.

Good time to buy health insurance stocks, BTW.

Health insurance stock has crashed since labor day, although that has been ignored by self-defeating liberals. It was important to get this out of committee, where the 4 good bills can be used as a template for the final bill.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

Health insurance stock has crashed since labor day, although that has been ignored by self-defeating liberals. It was important to get this out of committee, where the 4 good bills can be used as a template for the final bill.

So has everything else. They'll start rising after the pirates are finished crafting this little rip-off. All this bill is going to do is **** poor people more than they're already being ****ed and make people who are already rich a whole lot richer. Helmsley of UHC already makes $57,000 per hour. I'll bet they give him a raise after this.

[Garcia Bronco]

They didn't need her vote to get it out of committee.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Classic. Repubs are melting down nationwide, as if this was some monumental act of treachery that must be recorded in every history book from now until the end of time. This is Olympia Snowe--are you REALLY surprised at her vote?

I second the post above calling it a crap bill that will rob the middle class blind. Moreover, for the planets to align, the following must still occur:

* a FINAL bill with language and teeth must be drafted and, hopefully, scored by CBO.

* this bill has to be merged with other committee bills (HELP Committee, for example)

* the senate has to crank out a bill too

* then the House has to vote not on the Committee bill (which passed today) but on the final bill. this will be a dogfight for public options, etc.

* then it's back to the Senate for compromise sessions--let's see what that looks like.

* and of course, when that final compromise comes to fruition, we have our fearless leader as the safety net to veto any bill that, uh, adds even a dime, uh, to the uh, defi...uh oh.

[Rohirrim]

This bill will have all the power of your basic immigration bill, except it will shovel more money to the insurance companies. In the end, that will be its single effect. Trust me. Have I ever lied?

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

So has everything else. They'll start rising after the pirates are finished crafting this little rip-off. All this bill is going to do is **** poor people more than they're already being ****ed and make people who are already rich a whole lot richer. Helmsley of UHC already makes $57,000 per hour. I'll bet they give him a raise after this.

So has everything else? That's Glenn Beckesque in it's accuracy.

Here's a link to the reality.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...hting-mad.html

[Smiling Assassin27]

There's trouble brewing. Opposition is lining up--and it looks a lot like...Labor and Insurance Companies--2 parties most probably had down as supporters.

news home | top | world | intl | natl | op | pol | govt | business | tech | sci | entertain | sports | health | odd | sources | local
Presidential • Cabinet • Congress • Supreme Crt • Other US Govt



Unions will oppose Baucus bill unless it's changed



Oct 13, 3:35 PM (ET)


WASHINGTON (AP) - About 30 unions will run a full-page ad in newspapers Wednesday announcing their opposition to the Senate Finance Committee's health overhaul bill, a top labor lobbyist said.

The ad will state that unions will oppose the measure on the Senate floor unless improvements are made, according to Chuck Loveless, legislative director of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

The ad will state, "Real health care reform and nothing less," Loveless said.

Labor has been a major Democratic ally in the health care debate but is unhappy the legislation lacks a publicly run insurance plan and would tax expensive policies in an effort to drive down costs. Officials also want it to prevent insurance companies from refusing to cover some people and to force employers to cover their workers.

The Finance Committee voted Tuesday to approve the bill, the most conservative of five health overhaul bills congressional panels have written this year. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., plans to combine it with the Senate health committee's more liberal version and bring it to the full Senate in perhaps two weeks.

Besides AFSCME, sponsors included the AFL-CIO and the Communications Workers of America. The ad will run in The Washington Post, USA Today and Capitol Hill newspapers.

AHIP Million-Dollar Ad Campaign Targets Seniors
Updated: 10-13-09 01:11 PM

In a late-effort push to alter or torpedo health care reform, the major lobby for private insurers has made a multi-state, million-dollar ad purchase claiming that seniors will see their care cut under Democrat-crafted legislation.

America's Health Insurance Plans (AHIP), which released a highly critical (and widely criticized) report slamming the Senate Finance Committee's reform proposal, has quietly put out a new spot claiming that millions of seniors will see their Medicare slashed by Congress.

"Is it right to ask 10 million seniors on Medicare advantage for more than their fair share?" the ad asks. "Congress is proposing over 100 billion in cuts to Medicare advantage. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says many seniors will see cuts in benefits."




The spot, according to a Democratic ad tracker is running in a variety of states, including Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico, Missouri, Louisiana and Nevada. The money behind it is impressive. Slightly more than $1 million has been spent for it to air during a ten-day period beginning this past Monday (that total doesn't include expenditures in Pennsylvania, which the tracker didn't have readily available).

That the private insurance industry would make such a splash so late in the health care debate is a reflection of just how hotly contested the process has become as it enters the critical voting stage.

"It is potentially a very big wallet. It is going to add a lot more horsepower to their complaints," said Evan Tracey, founder and president of Campaign Media Analysis Group. "What is more interesting about this is, does it foretell something? Obviously they have access to capital and their industry will be the most impacted. But by and large they have stayed out of the debate [to this point]... This is the first industry marker they put down and the ad they put down today is all about Medicare advantage. These are the things that suggest they will be a big player down the stretch."

Indeed, as noteworthy as AHIP's newest ad, the fact that it took them this long to lash out against reform is equally remarkable. Since the beginning of the year, Tracey says, $125 million has been spent by roughly 80 different groups on health-care-related ads. AHIP, however, has "largely kept their powder dry" even as $23 million worth of ads critical of the industry have run.

"They have a pretty big message gulf to fill," Tracey said. "They were in that category of general health care stuff. The only thing they had in their early stuff was the need for bipartisan reform."

The targets of the current ad purchase seem relatively clear. Putting up a spot in Nevada is likely meant to pressure Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) before he merges the two pieces of legislation that have made their way through the Senate. The spots in Colorado are likely intended to impact freshmen Democratic Sen. Michael Bennet, while the Louisiana purchase is almost certainly geared towards centrist Democrat Mary Landrieu. Spending money in Missouri is something of a mystery, as progressives insist that Sen. Claire McCaskill, (D-MO) will be a reliable vote.

A call to AHIP's press office was not returned.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

There's trouble brewing. Opposition is lining up--and it looks a lot like...Labor and Insurance Companies--2 parties most probably had down as supporters.

The AHIP report shows how scared sh_tless the insurance industry is right now. The SFC was their last stand, this getting past there means 2 things a.) it's almost certainly now going to pass & b.) it's only going to move the Left from here on out.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

Classic. Repubs are melting down nationwide, as if this was some monumental act of treachery that must be recorded in every history book from now until the end of time. This is Olympia Snowe--are you REALLY surprised at her vote?

I second the post above calling it a crap bill that will rob the middle class blind. Moreover, for the planets to align, the following must still occur:

* a FINAL bill with language and teeth must be drafted and, hopefully, scored by CBO.

* this bill has to be merged with other committee bills (HELP Committee, for example)

* the senate has to crank out a bill too

* then the House has to vote not on the Committee bill (which passed today) but on the final bill. this will be a dogfight for public options, etc.

* then it's back to the Senate for compromise sessions--let's see what that looks like.

* and of course, when that final compromise comes to fruition, we have our fearless leader as the safety net to veto any bill that, uh, adds even a dime, uh, to the uh, defi...uh oh.

That's quite impressively wrong.

[Bronx33]

I see a surge in anal trauma on the middle class.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

So has everything else? That's Glenn Beckesque in it's accuracy.

Here's a link to the reality.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/...hting-mad.html

Why do you have to make everything personal? I don't get it. You can't carry on a conversation without insulting somebody? Is that how you go through life?

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Why do you have to make everything personal? I don't get it. You can't carry on a conversation without insulting somebody? Is that how you go through life?

Heh, you're one of my favs in here, but a lie is a lie and should be called out.

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Why do you have to make everything personal? I don't get it. You can't carry on a conversation without insulting somebody? Is that how you go through life?

Notice a pattern? attack, ridicule then minimalize then pretend you won

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Notice a pattern? attack, ridicule then minimalize then pretend you won

And I did win, I was right.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

That's quite impressively wrong.

well if you say it, it must be so.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

well if you say it, it must be so.

Senator Snowe is a Senator, not in the House of Rep, so you got everything pretty much backwards.

(holding in insult per Roh...)

[Smiling Assassin27]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

The AHIP report shows how scared sh_tless the insurance industry is right now. The SFC was their last stand, this getting past there means 2 things a.) it's almost certainly now going to pass & b.) it's only going to move the Left from here on out.

well, if you say it, it must be so.

AHIP's promotion of health care reform and utter silence over the summer is what kept the bill afloat. They're not scared, they're pi$$ed. The current bill undoes the agreement they had in place originally with Dems. The recently released study is a threat, not done out of the goodness of their hearts and don't be surprised to see Dems try to stick it to them (petty, i know) for the study.

If and when the Dems come up with an actual bill--with specifics and everything--AHIP, the unions, and voters will be waiting. That is when it will get interesting. I know you've already chalked it up to being legislation, but I don't see it, not yet.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

well, if you say it, it must be so.

AHIP's promotion of health care reform and utter silence over the summer is what kept the bill afloat. They're not scared, they're pi$$ed. The current bill undoes the agreement they had in place originally with Dems. The recently released study is a threat, not done out of the goodness of their hearts and don't be surprised to see Dems try to stick it to them (petty, i know) for the study.

If and when the Dems come up with an actual bill--with specifics and everything--AHIP, the unions, and voters will be waiting. That is when it will get interesting. I know you've already chalked it up to being legislation, but I don't see it, not yet.

The House has a bill (w/ specifics and everything). The Senate has two bills (also with specifics). The Senate has to merge their two bills, then that bill gets merged with the House version. I believe this is to be done entirely by Democratic leadership so there is no place for Republicans to block it until it comes up for vote.

And if the Health Insurance industry is pissed, and their stocks are falling, that is great news for liberals (and America).

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

The House has a bill (w/ specifics and everything). The Senate has two bills (also with specifics). The Senate has to merge their two bills, then that bill gets merged with the House version. I believe this is to be done entirely by Democratic leadership so there is no place for Republicans to block it until it comes up for vote.

And if the Health Insurance industry is pissed, and their stocks are falling, that is great news for liberals (and America).

Libs will be hiding under rocks when Healthcare is implemented.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

The House has a bill (w/ specifics and everything). The Senate has two bills (also with specifics). The Senate has to merge their two bills, then that bill gets merged with the House version. I believe this is to be done entirely by Democratic leadership so there is no place for Republicans to block it until it comes up for vote.

And if the Health Insurance industry is pissed, and their stocks are falling, that is great news for liberals (and America).

No, the House has 3 committee bills they are trying to blend, not a single bill. It's quite divisive in there right now. You must not mean the same thing as I do when I say 'specifics'. What was passed today does not contain specifics, because it's not an actual bill, it's a summary.

Even if Dems go it alone, there is dissension in the ranks over the way the House bill ought to go--fixed Medicare-type payments or negotiated. I don't necessarily disagree about the profits and the anger on the part of insurers, but you seem to think they pose no threat. If you overlook or ignore them, they may derail this thing--great news for normal, middle class people who are walking into a financial ambush with this plan.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

No, the House has 3 committee bills they are trying to blend, not a single bill. It's quite divisive in there right now. You must not mean the same thing as I do when I say 'specifics'. What was passed today does not contain specifics, because it's not an actual bill, it's a summary.

Even if Dems go it alone, there is dissension in the ranks over the way the House bill ought to go--fixed Medicare-type payments or negotiated. I don't necessarily disagree about the profits and the anger on the part of insurers, but you seem to think they pose no threat. If you overlook or ignore them, they may derail this thing--great news for normal, middle class people who are walking into a financial ambush with this plan.

The 3 house committees worked together and it's essentially 1 bill (Hr 3200 iirc). Some libruls want to move it more to the left to have more negotiating power w/ the the senate, but there is no heat between the 3 bills. The text is available online for it btw.

The Baucus bill contains specifics (it's almost 250 pages), but hasn't been put in lawyer lingo (which isn't something the senators even do themselves).

The 2 main issues to be rsolved by the dem leadership is the public option and the funding mechanisms.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

Heh, you're one of my favs in here, but a lie is a lie and should be called out.

I never lie. I "enhance my argument."