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Old 10-13-2009, 08:21 AM   #1
tsiguy96
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Default moreno and hillis...

moreno never, ever stops pumping his feet until hes brought down, its awesome to see. now my question is, since moreno is fumbling as bad as hillis has, why is still getting the short yardage carries, where we are clearly not doing well in. hillis has shown he has the power to break through for yardage when we need it most, when does he get out of the doghouse? or get used in the passing game again?
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:26 AM   #2
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Hillis may in fact be a meathead. He forced the team to burn their first timeout when he couldn't figure out where to lineup. He can be a force, hopefully he gets it soon before he completely becomes an afterthought.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:30 AM   #3
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I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis.

Last edited by bpc; 10-13-2009 at 08:34 AM..
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:31 AM   #4
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I think its going to take more time for Hillis to figure out this offense, and this offense to figure out how to use Hillis. We will get there eventually, he is too talented not to have some productive role. Somebody else pointed out he probably won't be risked much till Larsen is back though.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:31 AM   #5
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It's been disappointing that Hillis hasn't been any kind of factor (good anyway...) so far. I expected much more from him.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:35 AM   #6
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bpc, one thing thats frustrating while watching this replay is how many times moreno runs into the back of a lineman. it happens far too often.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:38 AM   #7
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McD is clearly racist.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:41 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by tsiguy96 View Post
bpc, one thing thats frustrating while watching this replay is how many times moreno runs into the back of a lineman. it happens far too often.
This could at least partly be due to Wilfork stonewalling our guards and pushing them into the backfield. Knowshon was probably used to things being a little more open in college and hasn't fully adjusted yet. I would expect his vision to get better as the game continues to slow down for him.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:30 AM   #9
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Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."



I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:32 AM   #10
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McD is clearly racist.
Obviously McD thinks he can continue to win w/o Hillis! We will see.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:33 AM   #11
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Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."



I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........
Huh?
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:35 AM   #12
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This could at least partly be due to Wilfork stonewalling our guards and pushing them into the backfield. Knowshon was probably used to things being a little more open in college and hasn't fully adjusted yet. I would expect his vision to get better as the game continues to slow down for him.
Meh! Moreno could use the lead blocking help from a dynamic talented FB named Peyton Hillis. Imagine TD w/o Griffin lead blocking for him. Just saying.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange skier View Post
Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."


I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........

Why not use the quote button?

What's.....with all....the periods............?
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
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My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis.
I don't know what you are watching but Moreno's pad level is just fine.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:44 AM   #15
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Why not use the quote button?

What's.....with all....the periods............?
I didn't even try to read it. That was the most visually annoying post I have ever seen.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Why not use the quote button?

What's.....with all....the periods............?
Oh those were his ellipses.....He just forgot that only three periods are required. It's good that he did that because that post would have been 19 pages long.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:25 AM   #17
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Because Hillis got a shot at short yardage carries and didn't do anything? Because Hillis hasn't done anything in other areas that warrants him getting more playing time?
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:42 AM   #18
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bpc, one thing thats frustrating while watching this replay is how many times moreno runs into the back of a lineman. it happens far too often.
They do this because this is how Denver running backs are taught how to run. They are supposed to run to the hole whether it is clogged up or not. They would rather have the backs run into a clogged hole and only gain a yard or two than have them try to freelance and lose yardage.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:45 AM   #19
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It will come. Hillis will make plays, Moreno will make plays and Buckhalter will make plays, and all will be hunky dory in the Broncos backfield.


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Old 10-13-2009, 10:47 AM   #20
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I think its going to take more time for Hillis to figure out this offense, and this offense to figure out how to use Hillis. We will get there eventually, he is too talented not to have some productive role. Somebody else pointed out he probably won't be risked much till Larsen is back though.
But using Hillis as a fullback isnt a risk. If you need a FB and have one, you use him. What is the point of saving him unless you want him to go in for Moreno if he gets tired/hurt. We could have used Hillis on the 3rd and inches and we got stuffed. Either use him in that situation as a FB or give him the ball for the short yardage. Moreno didnt follow Hillis on that 4th down play against the Cowboys and it cost us. We need a better plan to use for these short yardages because it has cost us points and first downs.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:56 AM   #21
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Because Hillis got a shot at short yardage carries and didn't do anything? Because Hillis hasn't done anything in other areas that warrants him getting more playing time?
Hillis has gotten more reps on Special Teams than he has gotten with the first team offense! Point is, Moreno has gotten more reps and playing time than Hillis has gotten. Hillis has not made the turnovers and penalties while playing with the first team offense. However, on special teams Hillis has made mistakes. Makes you wonder how Moreno would have fared on Special Teams? But you don't make your 1st round draft pick risk injury playing ST I understand that. Hillis should have been ahead on the depth chart as the FB/HB this season. But McD probably put him on special teams soon as camp started and there he has basically stayed.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:57 AM   #22
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Because Hillis got a shot at short yardage carries and didn't do anything? Because Hillis hasn't done anything in other areas that warrants him getting more playing time?
And the winner is...
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:59 AM   #23
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It will come. Hillis will make plays, Moreno will make plays and Buckhalter will make plays, and all will be hunky dory in the Broncos backfield.


True that. It would just be sad if the 11 games we have remaining, Hillis isn't utilized properly and lose a few we should have won. If defenses had to account for Hillis in the Red Zone, it opens up possibilities for our offense.
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:01 AM   #24
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There was no bigger Hillis believer than me last year and going into this season. So, I've been dead wrong about what he'd contribute to this team to this stage.

I still think (and agree) with the majority here that he's vastly talented.

That said, as I posted in the off-season... one person did tell me in private that they had a source that said Hillis was having trouble with the playbook, and wasn't the most coachable player around. I had no reason to believe (or doubt) this person... but the source sounded fairly credible.

Upon hearing this, I ended up doing some digging and found a scouting report in a PDF format that basically said the same thing, before Hillis was a pro. It was a long report that went pretty in-depth that basically said he's a guy who will try to rely on his physical skills and doesn't always take coaching well.

I can't find it right now... but I'll dig. Maybe someone else can.

Doesn't mean any of it is true, but it could be some explanation for what we're seeing now. There's just no question that he's physically gifted enough. Something else is going on...
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orange skier View Post
Brother BPC writes:

"I don't agree completely on Moreno. He's built like a TD but he does not run like TD, not yet anyways. I see him get tackled far too often running through the LOS by linemen that are being blocked. You gotta run through those arm tackles.

It's still early though. Hopefully he keeps progressing.

My problem when we drafted him was in that his upright running style was going to be conducive to him getting injured in the pro's. He got up 3 or 4 times during the NE game acting like he was hurt so i'm still not sold on that front. He may just be an Joseph Addai type that will require a handcuff. It would be nice if that handcuff turned out to be Hillis."



I watched Ricky Williams last night and thought about Moreno....Moreno is a true Pro, with an excellent work ethic.......give him a year or two in the system, and in the weight room, and with Bobby Turner.....and oh my.........we've got something really special here......he's the real deal.........and pairing him with Correll is #$@%ing awesome.......now our boy Hillis......he's having a rough time........with the system........and with life right now..........either he's going to figure it out, or the coaches will find a reduced role for him.....or he's gone next year........he just can't make stupid mistakes.........this offense is built around ball control, sustained drives, no mistakes...........Hillis is making too many mistakes right now.........and Moreno needs to get the fumble thing figured out also.......he will......Bobby Turner will be on his rear end, I'm sure........
Moreno never fumbled in college, so the fact that he has a few times in his pro career has got to be pissing him off as well. i agree though. he shows flashes of awesome multiple times in the game, just enough that makes you think with a little more experience and some teachings from Turner and he can turn into a beast.

also, another thing to be considered. he has been used exclusively in a part time role all season up til this last weekend, after missing a large portion of practices and basically the entire preseason. he is still a little behind in his development
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